Is the West Becoming Pagan Again?

ThatOwlWoman said:
No, it's not. Which is why I don't understand why they question whether America is becoming pagan.
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It probably sounds cooler, and makes better copy, than writing a headline claiming America is becoming atheist.

My sense is that Americans are becoming less engaged or enthusiastic about formal religious institutions, but they largely remain at least somewhat interested in the possiblity of a spiritual or metaphysical truth.
 
BidenPresident said:
By pagan he means the culture of a particular practice, not its overt references to specific gods.
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I understand that, but he does not delineate any other practice. He just throws the word "pagan" out there. This is more of a book review, btw, than the author's own words. He's talking about a book written by a French author who claims that America is becoming more pagan. Without having read that book, it's unclear what is meant by the use of that word, which as you correctly pointed out signifies a practice/belief system, not the absence of religion.
 
BidenPresident said:
The article is about a book by a French author. The article uses "pagan" to refer to the secular. Christians invented a transcendent God. 'Pagans' has many gods or no gods.
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Thank you. This is true. They should use "secular" or "secularism" then, rather than "pagan" and "paganism."
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
I understand that, but he does not delineate any other practice. He just throws the word "pagan" out there. This is more of a book review, btw, than the author's own words. He's talking about a book written by a French author who claims that America is becoming more pagan. Without having read that book, it's unclear what is meant by the use of that word, which as you correctly pointed out signifies a practice/belief system, not the absence of religion.
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"So if another civilization comes to replace Christianity, it will not be a mere negation, such as atheism or nihilism. It will be a rival civilization with its own logic — or at least its own style of moralizing. It may resemble the present-day iconoclasm that French commentators refer to as le woke. (The term means basically what it does in English, except that French people see wokeness as a system imported wholesale from American universities and thus itself almost a religious doctrine.)"
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/29/opinion/christianity-paganism-woke.html
 
Cypress said:
It probably sounds cooler, and makes better copy, than writing a headline claiming America is becoming atheist.

My sense is that Americans are becoming less engaged or enthusiastic about formal religious institutions, but they largely remain at least somewhat interested in the possiblity of a spiritual or metaphysical truth.
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Yes. I'd say if anything ppl remain spiritual, but not Christian or any other specific religious label. Good point about using the term pagan in the headline. Sure to frighten the fundies and get them to read it. lol
 
BidenPresident said:
"So if another civilization comes to replace Christianity, it will not be a mere negation, such as atheism or nihilism. It will be a rival civilization with its own logic — or at least its own style of moralizing. It may resemble the present-day iconoclasm that French commentators refer to as le woke. (The term means basically what it does in English, except that French people see wokeness as a system imported wholesale from American universities and thus itself almost a religious doctrine.)"
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/29/opinion/christianity-paganism-woke.html
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Oh boy. If the word "pagan" doesn't set off the RWers, the term "woke" surely will. :laugh:
 
BidenPresident said:
I think the author explains the difference. I have explained it myself. "Pagan" is actually used by many scholars in the way the author of the article does.
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Maybe it is a French thing. Here is a French philosopher on the topic:

"Lyotard develops the notion of paganism in “Lessons in Paganism”. The term “paganism” refers to a way of thinking that takes into account and strives to do justice to incommensurable differences. Just as pagan religions believe in a number of different gods rather than just one God, Lyotard’s pagan philosophy represents a concern for pluralism and multiplicity (terms he uses synonymously to oppose the idea of universality).

https://iep.utm.edu/lyotard/#SH4a
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
Oh boy. If the word "pagan" doesn't set off the RWers, the term "woke" surely will. :laugh:
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Essential Meaning of pagan
1: a person who worships many gods or goddesses or the earth or nature : a person whose religion is paganism
2old-fashioned + often offensive : a person who is not religious or whose religion is not Christianity, Judaism, or Islam
Full Definition of pagan (Entry 1 of 2)
1: HEATHEN sense 1
especially : a follower of a polytheistic religion (as in ancient Rome)
2: one who has little or no religion and who delights in sensual pleasures and material goods : an irreligious or hedonistic person

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pagan
 
BidenPresident said:
Maybe it is a French thing. Here is a French philosopher on the topic:

"Lyotard develops the notion of paganism in “Lessons in Paganism”. The term “paganism” refers to a way of thinking that takes into account and strives to do justice to incommensurable differences. Just as pagan religions believe in a number of different gods rather than just one God, Lyotard’s pagan philosophy represents a concern for pluralism and multiplicity (terms he uses synonymously to oppose the idea of universality).

https://iep.utm.edu/lyotard/#SH4a
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Yeah, I think we're discussing semantics here. They are using the word differently than we think of it.
 
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