The Town Hall Mob

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The Town Hall Mob

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By patriot PAUL KRUGMAN
Published: August 6, 2009

There’s a famous Norman Rockwell painting titled “Freedom of Speech,” depicting an idealized American town meeting. The painting, part of a series illustrating F.D.R.’s “Four Freedoms,” shows an ordinary citizen expressing an unpopular opinion. His neighbors obviously don’t like what he’s saying, but they’re letting him speak his mind.

That’s a far cry from what has been happening at recent town halls, where angry protesters — some of them, with no apparent sense of irony, shouting “This is America!” — have been drowning out, and in some cases threatening, members of Congress trying to talk about health reform.

Some commentators have tried to play down the mob aspect of these scenes, likening the campaign against health reform to the campaign against Social Security privatization back in 2005. But there’s no comparison. I’ve gone through many news reports from 2005, and while anti-privatization activists were sometimes raucous and rude, I can’t find any examples of congressmen shouted down, congressmen hanged in effigy, congressmen surrounded and followed by taunting crowds.

And I can’t find any counterpart to the death threats at least one congressman has received.

So this is something new and ugly. What’s behind it?

Robert Gibbs, the White House press secretary, has compared the scenes at health care town halls to the “Brooks Brothers riot” in 2000 — the demonstration that disrupted the vote count in Miami and arguably helped send George W. Bush to the White House. Portrayed at the time as local protesters, many of the rioters were actually G.O.P. staffers flown in from Washington.

But Mr. Gibbs is probably only half right. Yes, well-heeled interest groups are helping to organize the town hall mobs. Key organizers include two Astroturf (fake grass-roots) organizations: FreedomWorks, run by the former House majority leader Dick Armey, and a new organization called Conservatives for Patients’ Rights.

The latter group, by the way, is run by Rick Scott, the former head of Columbia/HCA, a for-profit hospital chain. Mr. Scott was forced out of that job amid a fraud investigation; the company eventually pleaded guilty to charges of overbilling state and federal health plans, paying $1.7 billion — yes, that’s “billion” — in fines. You can’t make this stuff up.

But while the organizers are as crass as they come, I haven’t seen any evidence that the people disrupting those town halls are Florida-style rent-a-mobs. For the most part, the protesters appear to be genuinely angry. The question is, what are they angry about?

There was a telling incident at a town hall held by Representative Gene Green, D-Tex. An activist turned to his fellow attendees and asked if they “oppose any form of socialized or government-run health care.” Nearly all did. Then RepresentativeGreen asked how many of those present were on Medicare. Almost half raised their hands.

Now, people who don’t know that Medicare is a government program probably aren’t reacting to what President Obama is actually proposing. They may believe some of the disinformation opponents of health care reform are spreading, like the claim that the Obama plan will lead to euthanasia for the elderly. (That particular claim is coming straight from House Republican leaders.) But they’re probably reacting less to what Mr. Obama is doing, or even to what they’ve heard about what he’s doing, than to who he is.

That is, the driving force behind the town hall mobs is probably the same cultural and racial anxiety that’s behind the “birther” movement, which denies Mr. Obama’s citizenship. Senator Dick Durbin has suggested that the birthers and the health care protesters are one and the same; we don’t know how many of the protesters are birthers, but it wouldn’t be surprising if it’s a substantial fraction.

And cynical political operators are exploiting that anxiety to further the economic interests of their backers.

Does this sound familiar? It should: it’s a strategy that has played a central role in American politics ever since Richard Nixon realized that he could advance Republican fortunes by appealing to the racial fears of working-class whites.

Many people hoped that last year’s election would mark the end of the “angry white voter” era in America. Indeed, voters who can be swayed by appeals to cultural and racial fear are a declining share of the electorate.

But right now Mr. Obama’s backers seem to lack all conviction, perhaps because the prosaic reality of his administration isn’t living up to their dreams of transformation. Meanwhile, the angry right is filled with a passionate intensity.

And if Mr. Obama can’t recapture some of the passion of 2008, can’t inspire his supporters to stand up and be heard, health care reform may well fail.
 
I'm too drunk to read the full column now, I'll do it in the morning. But I do love the "Patriot" Paul Krugman part.
 
Does this sound familiar? It should: it’s a strategy that has played a central role in American politics ever since Richard Nixon realized that he could advance Republican fortunes by appealing to the racial fears of working-class whites.

Great column, and dead-on.
 
The Town Hall Mob

Article Tools Sponsored By
By patriot PAUL KRUGMAN
Published: August 6, 2009

There’s a famous Norman Rockwell painting titled “Freedom of Speech,” depicting an idealized American town meeting. The painting, part of a series illustrating F.D.R.’s “Four Freedoms,” shows an ordinary citizen expressing an unpopular opinion. His neighbors obviously don’t like what he’s saying, but they’re letting him speak his mind.

That’s a far cry from what has been happening at recent town halls, where angry protesters — some of them, with no apparent sense of irony, shouting “This is America!” — have been drowning out, and in some cases threatening, members of Congress trying to talk about health reform.

Some commentators have tried to play down the mob aspect of these scenes, likening the campaign against health reform to the campaign against Social Security privatization back in 2005. But there’s no comparison. I’ve gone through many news reports from 2005, and while anti-privatization activists were sometimes raucous and rude, I can’t find any examples of congressmen shouted down, congressmen hanged in effigy, congressmen surrounded and followed by taunting crowds.

And I can’t find any counterpart to the death threats at least one congressman has received.

So this is something new and ugly. What’s behind it?

Robert Gibbs, the White House press secretary, has compared the scenes at health care town halls to the “Brooks Brothers riot” in 2000 — the demonstration that disrupted the vote count in Miami and arguably helped send George W. Bush to the White House. Portrayed at the time as local protesters, many of the rioters were actually G.O.P. staffers flown in from Washington.

But Mr. Gibbs is probably only half right. Yes, well-heeled interest groups are helping to organize the town hall mobs. Key organizers include two Astroturf (fake grass-roots) organizations: FreedomWorks, run by the former House majority leader Dick Armey, and a new organization called Conservatives for Patients’ Rights.

The latter group, by the way, is run by Rick Scott, the former head of Columbia/HCA, a for-profit hospital chain. Mr. Scott was forced out of that job amid a fraud investigation; the company eventually pleaded guilty to charges of overbilling state and federal health plans, paying $1.7 billion — yes, that’s “billion” — in fines. You can’t make this stuff up.

But while the organizers are as crass as they come, I haven’t seen any evidence that the people disrupting those town halls are Florida-style rent-a-mobs. For the most part, the protesters appear to be genuinely angry. The question is, what are they angry about?

There was a telling incident at a town hall held by Representative Gene Green, D-Tex. An activist turned to his fellow attendees and asked if they “oppose any form of socialized or government-run health care.” Nearly all did. Then RepresentativeGreen asked how many of those present were on Medicare. Almost half raised their hands.

Now, people who don’t know that Medicare is a government program probably aren’t reacting to what President Obama is actually proposing. They may believe some of the disinformation opponents of health care reform are spreading, like the claim that the Obama plan will lead to euthanasia for the elderly. (That particular claim is coming straight from House Republican leaders.) But they’re probably reacting less to what Mr. Obama is doing, or even to what they’ve heard about what he’s doing, than to who he is.

That is, the driving force behind the town hall mobs is probably the same cultural and racial anxiety that’s behind the “birther” movement, which denies Mr. Obama’s citizenship. Senator Dick Durbin has suggested that the birthers and the health care protesters are one and the same; we don’t know how many of the protesters are birthers, but it wouldn’t be surprising if it’s a substantial fraction.

And cynical political operators are exploiting that anxiety to further the economic interests of their backers.

Does this sound familiar? It should: it’s a strategy that has played a central role in American politics ever since Richard Nixon realized that he could advance Republican fortunes by appealing to the racial fears of working-class whites.

Many people hoped that last year’s election would mark the end of the “angry white voter” era in America. Indeed, voters who can be swayed by appeals to cultural and racial fear are a declining share of the electorate.

But right now Mr. Obama’s backers seem to lack all conviction, perhaps because the prosaic reality of his administration isn’t living up to their dreams of transformation. Meanwhile, the angry right is filled with a passionate intensity.

And if Mr. Obama can’t recapture some of the passion of 2008, can’t inspire his supporters to stand up and be heard, health care reform may well fail.

Fucking hilarious. When the Dems protest something and tear up property/attempt to block people from entering meetings/come into meetings and start shouting their slogans/chants... that is free speech. But if a Republican/conservative group does... well then... they are a MOB and evil and oh my goodness lets not forget racists.
 
Fucking hilarious. When the Dems protest something and tear up property/attempt to block people from entering meetings/come into meetings and start shouting their slogans/chants... that is free speech. But if a Republican/conservative group does... well then... they are a MOB and evil and oh my goodness lets not forget racists.

Oh, BS. I never condoned or defended shouting people down or destroying property. Yes, we all said "dissent is patriotic," but you are getting very hyperbolic about it to try to draw comparisons that don't exist.

And to think I almost supported you on the Afghan thread....
 
Paul Krugman is a friggen Communist for gawds sake..who takes anything he says seriously..
 
I think that the Rs have learned a bit from the Obama campaign's "get in their faces."

Amazing. Is there anything you won't defend these days?

And with a "they do it, too!", no less. What is it you always say about those kinds of comparisons?
 
Amazing. Is there anything you won't defend these days?

And with a "they do it, too!", no less. What is it you always say about those kinds of comparisons?
Defend? I promote it. Getting out and showing your elected representatives how you feel about something is a good thing. I am glad that the Rs can take a page from the other side's operating manual.

I don't promote shouting them down, but showing up and showing the people aren't marching in lockstep with their agendas and they might just lose their job if they continue where they are going is a good thing.

Your, 'You just aren't enough of a Democrat' stance on my positions is getting tired. I'm not a Democrat, get over it.
 
Oh, BS. I never condoned or defended shouting people down or destroying property. Yes, we all said "dissent is patriotic," but you are getting very hyperbolic about it to try to draw comparisons that don't exist.

And to think I almost supported you on the Afghan thread....

Settle down skippy, dont get your panties in a bunch. I never said that YOU condoned anything. I was referencing KRUGMAN's article. Where he DID call the Reps a mob and racists and angry white people... blah blah blah. Then pretended that he hasn't seen anything like this before.

Just ask the WTO how nice and friendly the liberal protestors are Mr. Krugman. Ask former President Bush how many times he saw himself hung in effigy.

As for the Afghan thread... if you are so petty that you let one issue that is completely unrelated affect your ability to think rationally on another issue, that is quite sad.

Now... please explain the 'comparisons that don't exist' portion of your thread.
 
Defend? I promote it. Getting out and showing your elected representatives how you feel about something is a good thing. I am glad that the Rs can take a page from the other side's operating manual.

I don't promote shouting them down, but showing up and showing the people aren't marching in lockstep with their agendas and they might just lose their job if they continue where they are going is a good thing.

speaking of which... Michael Bennet is coming to speak to the South Metro Chamber on 8/19 at noon.
 
speaking of which... Michael Bennet is coming to speak to the South Metro Chamber on 8/19 at noon.
Wow, a rare public appearance from the ever elusive and most mysterious Senator I've ever seen!

Why do they always set these things up for work days?
 
Settle down skippy, dont get your panties in a bunch. I never said that YOU condoned anything. I was referencing KRUGMAN's article. Where he DID call the Reps a mob and racists and angry white people... blah blah blah. Then pretended that he hasn't seen anything like this before.

Just ask the WTO how nice and friendly the liberal protestors are Mr. Krugman. Ask former President Bush how many times he saw himself hung in effigy.

As for the Afghan thread... if you are so petty that you let one issue that is completely unrelated affect your ability to think rationally on another issue, that is quite sad.

Now... please explain the 'comparisons that don't exist' portion of your thread.


Well, if you take a look at Krugman's article he made a direct comparison to equivalent events, Republican town hall meetings in 2005 on Social Security reform:

Some commentators have tried to play down the mob aspect of these scenes, likening the campaign against health reform to the campaign against Social Security privatization back in 2005. But there’s no comparison. I’ve gone through many news reports from 2005, and while anti-privatization activists were sometimes raucous and rude, I can’t find any examples of congressmen shouted down, congressmen hanged in effigy, congressmen surrounded and followed by taunting crowds.

In short, he's comparing apples to apples. If you have any evidence to rebut his claims (head nods to WTO protests don't qualify) please provide it.

I hope this helps.
 
when the dems do this....patriotic....you dems just cannot handle free opposing view points and know that you must shove obamacare down the people's throat in order to get it passed because if anyone stops and thinks about it or gasp, reads it, it will never pass....

it is just like darla claiming it is pathetic for people to post videos of obama, just a few years ago and a senator, saying he wants to get rid of private insurance....yeah, so pathetic.....:rolleyes:
 
Defend? I promote it. Getting out and showing your elected representatives how you feel about something is a good thing. I am glad that the Rs can take a page from the other side's operating manual.

I don't promote shouting them down, but showing up and showing the people aren't marching in lockstep with their agendas and they might just lose their job if they continue where they are going is a good thing.

It's the shouting down that's being discussed, Damo (as well as a few implied & real death threats & other intimidation).

It's not expressing opinions, or 'getting out & showing reps how you feel.' It's surprising to see such an obvious strawman from you.
 
when the dems do this....patriotic....you dems just cannot handle free opposing view points and know that you must shove obamacare down the people's throat in order to get it passed because if anyone stops and thinks about it or gasp, reads it, it will never pass....

it is just like darla claiming it is pathetic for people to post videos of obama, just a few years ago and a senator, saying he wants to get rid of private insurance....yeah, so pathetic.....:rolleyes:
There are several videos and in them he describes how it will take incremental steps to get where he wants to go, how they have to "take back the Senate and the House" and that it will likely take 20 years.

Then we are supposed to ignore that, and pretend that this is the end?

I don't think so. The videos of his words are valid, and the path hasn't changed.
 
It's the shouting down that's being discussed, Damo (as well as a few implied & real death threats & other intimidation).

It's not expressing opinions, or 'getting out & showing reps how you feel.' It's surprising to see such an obvious strawman from you.
*sigh*

Hence my regular caveats. While it fits within the normal conversation it shows that I support some portions of this while I am against other portions of it. I understand that you want to read everything I post through poop-colored lenses, but you don't have to spend that much energy and it would make for better conversations if you didn't.

Just the other day I was reading some of the "best of the best" over at Tom's place (he's on the radio right now filling in for the morning host) where he let me read a few of his "best" death threat letters. It's wrong whoever does that, but that doesn't change that I am heartened that the Rs are getting out and making themselves heard on an issue. When was the last time you saw anything this effective on that level from the Rs? I don't remember the Rs being effective at that level...
 
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