My FB post on the war

dukkha said:
Back when the term “alt-right” was still constantly in circulation, you couldn’t look at a “prestigious” US media outlet without seeing some grand proclamation anointing Putin as the fearsome tribune of global right-wing fanaticism. The Atlantic ran pieces proclaiming some new terrifying nexus of “Trump, Putin, and the Alt-Right International.” Serious-seeming NatSec sites gravely pondered how to go about “Confronting Russia’s Role in Transnational White Supremacist Extremism.” Media-adjacent academics christened themselves newfound Experts on the “The Unholy Alliance of Russia and the American Far-Right.” And on and on and on.
https://www.justplainpolitics.com/showthread.php?185441-Why-Wouldn%92t-the-US-Negotiate-With-Putin
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insanity.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
The Oligarchs are the high income groups in Russia.

Re military ouster of unfit leaders. IF Trump had succeeded in his overthrow of the US government, I doubt he'd have lived out the week. The White Supremacist terrorists used him but they didn't trust him.
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The most immediate way to remove Putin is probably by inner palace coup.

No one is getting near to him with a gun, and the oligarchs only have indirect influence.

There is some speculation that the state security council only went along grudgingly with Putin's war. The decision was largely his and his alone. It's possible that the heads of the security and intelligence services on the security council could begin to consider Putin a liability.

Just speculation at this point.
 
dukkha said:
Quote Originally Posted by Taichiliberal View Post
As I said before, both Russia and NATO are operating as if the Cold War is still viable on some level....both are idiots who just can't move on and find another way to live.
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yes. and Cold War 2 has just become a hot war with potential to draw us in.

GOP Rep. Adam Kinzinger calls for U.S.-enforced no-fly zone over Ukraine
https://theweek.com/russo-ukrainian...alls-for-us-enforced-no-fly-zone-over-ukraine
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Umm, NO! Proposals, sabre rattling, etc., are not a "hot war". Putin's Russian expansionism is going to take control of the Ukraine one way or another....holding onto it will be another story in the long run, with the EU and the US supply arms to the Ukrainian army and people. Beyond that, the US citizenry is NOT going to repeat the same mistake it did after 9-11, and I don't see the UN or any EU country sending in troops or creating a "no fly zone" beyond their respective borders. There will be no call to arms or a rash of volunteers. Apropos, the Russian citizenry is getting fed up with Putin's push to resurrect the Soviet Union, and the oligarchs are not exactly happy with consequences of current events. Invading another country AND trying maintain a suppressive crack down on your people is NOT something that can be sustained indefinitely.

Seems neither NATO or Putin's Russia are going to get all they want out of this mess....much to the expense of the Ukrainian people.
 
Cypress said:
The most immediate way to remove Putin is probably by inner palace coup.

No one is getting near to him with a gun, and the oligarchs only have indirect influence.

There is some speculation that the state security council only went along grudgingly with Putin's war. The decision was largely his and his alone. It's possible that the heads of the security and intelligence services on the security council could begin to consider Putin a liability.

Just speculation at this point.
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oligarchs love putin. he was kgb. he's a poster boy for "privatization".

you people are fucking deluded.
 
Taichiliberal said:
Umm, NO! Proposals, sabre rattling, etc., are not a "hot war". Putin's Russian expansionism is going to take control of the Ukraine one way or another....holding onto it will be another story in the long run, with the EU and the US supply arms to the Ukrainian army and people. Beyond that, the US citizenry is NOT going to repeat the same mistake it did after 9-11, and I don't see the UN or any EU country sending in troops or creating a "no fly zone" beyond their respective borders. There will be no call to arms or a rash of volunteers. Apropos, the Russian citizenry is getting fed up with Putin's push to resurrect the Soviet Union, and the oligarchs are not exactly happy with consequences of current events. Invading another country AND trying maintain a suppressive crack down on your people is NOT something that can be sustained indefinitely.

Seems neither NATO or Putin's Russia are going to get all they want out of this mess....much to the expense of the Ukrainian people.
Click to expand...

an invasion with bombs death and everything is a hot war, fucktoad.
 
thou shalt not speak ill of the colored guy ! Hope and change !

the conditioned response is just amazing.

That said, its good for people to hear that things are not black and white. And the Ukraine thing is rally all dark grey. The only good guys are the average Ivan and as always happens he's the one getting f*cked. Nobody wins in this one, just a matter of who loses more.
 
Celticguy said:
thou shalt not speak ill of the colored guy ! Hope and change !

the conditioned response is just amazing.

That said, its good for people to hear that things are not black and white. And the Ukraine thing is rally all dark grey. The only good guys are the average Ivan and as always happens he's the one getting f*cked. Nobody wins in this one, just a matter of who loses more.
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"colored guy"? WTF are you going on about now?
 
Taichiliberal said:
"colored guy"? WTF are you going on about now?
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th
 
Taichiliberal said:
Umm, NO! Proposals, sabre rattling, etc., are not a "hot war". Putin's Russian expansionism is going to take control of the Ukraine one way or another....holding onto it will be another story in the long run, with the EU and the US supply arms to the Ukrainian army and people. Beyond that, the US citizenry is NOT going to repeat the same mistake it did after 9-11, and I don't see the UN or any EU country sending in troops or creating a "no fly zone" beyond their respective borders. There will be no call to arms or a rash of volunteers. Apropos, the Russian citizenry is getting fed up with Putin's push to resurrect the Soviet Union, and the oligarchs are not exactly happy with consequences of current events. Invading another country AND trying maintain a suppressive crack down on your people is NOT something that can be sustained indefinitely.

Seems neither NATO or Putin's Russia are going to get all they want out of this mess....much to the expense of the Ukrainian people.
Click to expand...
I said "potential" and you did a nice job of listing factors otherwise - but in war never say never.
Hopefully the American public has had enough adventurism and the politiicans wont buck that sentiment
 
not just nobody Republicans like Kinzinger saying this stuff. Sen. Roger Wicker, R-Miss., also endorsed the idea of creating a no-fly zone over Ukraine. “Clearly, in the absence of a U.N. resolution, which Russia would veto, a strong coalition of like-minded nations should step in and seriously consider this,” Wicker told HuffPost on Monday. Wicker isn’t some back-bencher. He’ll likely become the next top Republican on the Senate Armed Services Committee after Sen. Jim Inhofe, R-Okla., resigns later this year.

Joining Wicker in this loose talk is former NATO supreme commander and retired U.S. Air Force Gen. Philip Breedlove, who also called for a no-fly zone in Ukraine.

The no-fly zone isn’t the only terrible idea being bandied about by establishment Republicans and former generals. On Sunday, Sen. Rob Portman, an Ohio Republican and a member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, said on Meet The Press that we should right away bring Ukraine and other countries, like Georgia, into NATO. Bringing Ukraine into NATO, a mutual defense treaty, would of course trigger Article V, which obligates all NATO members to come to the defense of a member that’s under attack. In this case, that would mean — you guessed it — the U.S. going to war with Russia.
https://thefederalist.com/2022/03/0...russia-in-order-to-regain-control-of-the-gop/
 
dukkha said:
Quote Originally Posted by Taichiliberal View Post
Umm, NO! Proposals, sabre rattling, etc., are not a "hot war". Putin's Russian expansionism is going to take control of the Ukraine one way or another....holding onto it will be another story in the long run, with the EU and the US supply arms to the Ukrainian army and people. Beyond that, the US citizenry is NOT going to repeat the same mistake it did after 9-11, and I don't see the UN or any EU country sending in troops or creating a "no fly zone" beyond their respective borders. There will be no call to arms or a rash of volunteers. Apropos, the Russian citizenry is getting fed up with Putin's push to resurrect the Soviet Union, and the oligarchs are not exactly happy with consequences of current events. Invading another country AND trying maintain a suppressive crack down on your people is NOT something that can be sustained indefinitely.

Seems neither NATO or Putin's Russia are going to get all they want out of this mess....much to the expense of the Ukrainian people.
Click to expand...


I said "potential" and you did a nice job of listing factors otherwise - but in war never say never.
Hopefully the American public has had enough adventurism and the politiicans wont buck that sentiment
Click to expand...

You stated it was a "hot war" in my statement regarding this stupid Cold War mentality on both sides.....you threw in "potential" involvement of the US via the sabre rattling proposals.

Only the Ukrainians are experiencing a "hot" war without the full blown invasion/occupation ... and that's looking none too good for them.

My previous post stands regarding all involved.
 
dukkha said:
not just nobody Republicans like Kinzinger saying this stuff. Sen. Roger Wicker, R-Miss., also endorsed the idea of creating a no-fly zone over Ukraine. “Clearly, in the absence of a U.N. resolution, which Russia would veto, a strong coalition of like-minded nations should step in and seriously consider this,” Wicker told HuffPost on Monday. Wicker isn’t some back-bencher. He’ll likely become the next top Republican on the Senate Armed Services Committee after Sen. Jim Inhofe, R-Okla., resigns later this year.

Joining Wicker in this loose talk is former NATO supreme commander and retired U.S. Air Force Gen. Philip Breedlove, who also called for a no-fly zone in Ukraine.

The no-fly zone isn’t the only terrible idea being bandied about by establishment Republicans and former generals. On Sunday, Sen. Rob Portman, an Ohio Republican and a member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, said on Meet The Press that we should right away bring Ukraine and other countries, like Georgia, into NATO. Bringing Ukraine into NATO, a mutual defense treaty, would of course trigger Article V, which obligates all NATO members to come to the defense of a member that’s under attack. In this case, that would mean — you guessed it — the U.S. going to war with Russia.
https://thefederalist.com/2022/03/0...russia-in-order-to-regain-control-of-the-gop/
Click to expand...

Maybe, might be, could be .... until it becomes a reality, it's all theatre in trying to deal this all the BS from Putin's Russia without admitting there's not much that can be done short of shipping in weapons while they can.
 
Celticguy said:
th
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I do wish your MAGA folk would get over your angst regarding Obama's 8 years...you lost the elections fair & square, the guy was NOT the end of the world, and the GOP stone walled with impunity and then act like they're totally innocent of all results.

Like I said, Obama was just another President carrying on the foreign policy regarding Ukraine that others did previously....check the history. He was no worse or better...and to say otherwise just isn't factual. Capice?
 
dukkha said:
not just nobody Republicans like Kinzinger saying this stuff. Sen. Roger Wicker, R-Miss., also endorsed the idea of creating a no-fly zone over Ukraine. “Clearly, in the absence of a U.N. resolution, which Russia would veto, a strong coalition of like-minded nations should step in and seriously consider this,” Wicker told HuffPost on Monday. Wicker isn’t some back-bencher. He’ll likely become the next top Republican on the Senate Armed Services Committee after Sen. Jim Inhofe, R-Okla., resigns later this year.

Joining Wicker in this loose talk is former NATO supreme commander and retired U.S. Air Force Gen. Philip Breedlove, who also called for a no-fly zone in Ukraine.

The no-fly zone isn’t the only terrible idea being bandied about by establishment Republicans and former generals. On Sunday, Sen. Rob Portman, an Ohio Republican and a member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, said on Meet The Press that we should right away bring Ukraine and other countries, like Georgia, into NATO. Bringing Ukraine into NATO, a mutual defense treaty, would of course trigger Article V, which obligates all NATO members to come to the defense of a member that’s under attack. In this case, that would mean — you guessed it — the U.S. going to war with Russia.
https://thefederalist.com/2022/03/0...russia-in-order-to-regain-control-of-the-gop/
Click to expand...

More fucking Russian propaganda from JPP's own Russian asset.

If Anatta is opposed to something, then you know that it's the right thing to do.

I think we should fucking annihilate that convoy.

Since Putin is threatening nuclear weapons, he needs to be taken care of NOW.

Assassinate his ass.
 
Taichiliberal said:
I do wish your MAGA folk would get over your angst regarding Obama's 8 years...you lost the elections fair & square, the guy was NOT the end of the world, and the GOP stone walled with impunity and then act like they're totally innocent of all results.

Like I said, Obama was just another President carrying on the foreign policy regarding Ukraine that others did previously....check the history. He was no worse or better...and to say otherwise just isn't factual. Capice?
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his legacy will continue to show itself regardlrss how little you want it to.
those who dont learn from history are doomed to repeat it...
 
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