Health of Nations: Germany

uscitizen said:
yeah if being dead is considered free.

War is not always a fight for freedom. It is often fought to continue or expand opression.

War has often been fought for the benefit of those not engaging in the war.
If war was fought by the "leaders" we would have few wars.
Click to expand...
Name one war that the US has fought to continue or expand oppression.
 
Philippines, Panama, Hawaii, Guam, Haiti off the top of my head.

We had our share of imperialism too, though it was rarely as blatant as the European powers.
 
froggie said:
Any war in the Middle East. We exploit them for their oil, sorry it is one of the factors that comes into play.

Haiti
Click to expand...

Considering how little oil the US imports from the Middle East, I have to continue to call BS on this claim. Just because the war in Iraq is wrong, does not mean its productive to tell lies about why the neocons took us there, which ultimate has more to do with being able to control (rather than merely stabilize the region strictly for the sake of the oil market, as leaving Saddam in power would have guanteed 100%) the region for the sake of a certain unnamed ally of ours.
 
Threedee said:
Considering how little oil the US imports from the Middle East, I have to continue to call BS on this claim. Just because the war in Iraq is wrong, does not mean its productive to tell lies about why the neocons took us there, which ultimate has more to do with being able to control (rather than merely stabilize the region strictly for the sake of the oil market, as leaving Saddam in power would have guanteed 100%) the region for the sake of a certain unnamed ally of ours.
Click to expand...

Hon, it is not about today, it is about tomorrow and having the control.
 
froggie said:
Hon, it is not about today, it is about tomorrow and having the control.
Click to expand...

Look we depend upon mideast oil only so much as, it being the word's largest reserve, the region controls the price of world oil. This means that even if we bought 100% of our oil from Canada and Latin America, we would still suffer greatly from a collapse of the mideast oil market.

Which is why stability is our chief economic concern, which was noticably upset after we invaded Iraq. Saddam provided us with one essential thing - stability in Iraq, Saudi, Syria and Iran, and cheap oil.
 
Damocles said:
Almost any war involving Native Americans. Not only that but the US consistently violated every treaty they ever signed with any of the Native Tribes.
Click to expand...
True dat. Huge mistake and waste of our best resource. Although pales in comparison, the next worse and perhaps the dumbest was what we did to the buffalo. The native cow is superior to the European cow in many ways.
 
Cypress said:
The Indian Wars

Know any Seminoles or Cherokees?
Click to expand...
One of my best buds is 1/4 Cherokee. Also the best businessman and wealthiest man I know- very proud of his American, German and English heritages, and refuses to take a dime of tribal largess.
 
froggie said:
Any war in the Middle East. We exploit them for their oil, sorry it is one of the factors that comes into play.

Haiti
Click to expand...
Do we take their oil? No. In fact we give them the technology to extract it then they sell it to us. If it wasn't for bleeding heart liberals we'd use our own oils, gas and coal and the Mid East wouldn't have the absurd wealth to attack us and our ally: Israel.

What specifically about Haiti?
 
Southern Man said:
One of my best buds is 1/4 Cherokee. Also the best businessman and wealthiest man I know- very proud of his American, German and English heritages, and refuses to take a dime of tribal largess.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure why you diverted the topic of your question, to indian welfare payments.

You asked a direct question, I gave you a direct answer. Which oddly enough, you avoided.

You asked if the US ever fought a war that resulted in oppression.

There is no debate that the various wars against many indian tribes resulted in oppression. I don't see how you can not agree with that.
 
Threedee said:
Considering how little oil the US imports from the Middle East, I have to continue to call BS on this claim. Just because the war in Iraq is wrong, does not mean its productive to tell lies about why the neocons took us there, which ultimate has more to do with being able to control (rather than merely stabilize the region strictly for the sake of the oil market, as leaving Saddam in power would have guanteed 100%) the region for the sake of a certain unnamed ally of ours.
Click to expand...


Amount of U.S. oil consumption that comes from the Middle East: 2 mbd -- 12 percent

http://www.sustainabilityinstitute.org/dhm_archive/index.php?display_article=vn355energyfactsed
 
Cypress said:
I'm not sure why you diverted the topic of your question, to indian welfare payments.

You asked a direct question, I gave you a direct answer. Which oddly enough, you avoided.

You asked if the US ever fought a war that resulted in oppression.

There is no debate that the various wars against many indian tribes resulted in oppression. I don't see how you can not agree with that.
Click to expand...
Anything post 19th Century? :pke:
 
Southern Man said:
Anything post 19th Century? :pke:
Click to expand...

That wasn’t the question you asked.

It’s bad netiquette to change your question, or move the goal posts when you get an answer you don’t like to your original question.

As for the 20th century, the argument can be made that America’s association with oppression was worse than in the 19th century. Largely as a result of our becoming an economic empire in the 20th century, with all the commensurate economic, corporate, and political interests that come with empire.....and which are generally elevated over the concerns of human rights and social welfare of other people. Particularly brown people.

I’m not surprised a conservative like you, in the tradition of appalling dunces like Ronald Raygun and George Dumbya Bush, view America’s history through the lens of a John Wayne movie, where freedom is always on the march, led gloriously by the stars and stripes.

No doubt our defeat of the Nazis was, broadly speaking, a win for humanity and decency. But 20th century America, in the broader scheme, was quite closely associated with oppression and neo-fascism. As a rightwinger, you probably aren’t aware of our numerous invasions and occupations of Central American and Caribbean countries, which resulted in the installment of rightwing dictators who were friendly to American corporate interests, but had little to no resemblance to the ideals of a Jeffersonian democracy.

Further, the greatest conflict of the latter half of the 20th century was not fought by American and soviet armies. But, by our proxies. Often, despotic rightwing proxies. And quite unlike the John Wayne movies Ronnie R. was fond off, we invested a lot of our effort in the Cold War, overthrowing democratically elected regimes, in favor of despots and dictators who would do our economic and political bidding.

American exceptionalism is a quaint notion, which is mostly fodder for 9th grade American history classes. Other nations do it too, its quite unexceptional. It's not just us. I’m quite sure Japanese school children are not taught about the rape of Nanking, and I’m sure German school children are given a relatively sanitized version of their Fascist and imperial history.
 
Last edited:
The national debt was just under 32% of GDP under Carter.

During the Clinton years it dropped by 9%.

After Bush, it was over 90%.

Figure it out.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top