DamnYankee
Loyal to the end
And if he does?I don't mind as long as he doesn't hit anything.
And if he does?I don't mind as long as he doesn't hit anything.
And if he does?
LOL "Obama playing chess". You dummy it's typical Chicago style gang politics.
Taichiliberal wrote: Well, to be frank there is a bit of hyperbole in your article....but essentially it points to a truism.....Obama is playing chess while everyone else is in a street fight. The people that put him in office need to use that same drive to wake him and the Dems up that we put them there for a specific purpose...which is NOT to negotiate with the PNAC agenda of the neocon GOP.
But what did Obama promise Kim Jong Il, and what impact will it have on the safety of other Americans from being held hostage?
In other words: 'It's OK to pursue nuclear missiles and shoot them over Japan and towards the US, we're not going to do anything about it." Brilliant foreign policy.![]()
Are you fucking insane?
Bush mass-murdered countless innocent people, including women and BABIES .. FOR PROFIT.
It is absolutely fucking incredible that there would be anyone dumb enough on planet earth to suggest that Bush is a man of conviction and a moral compass.
... yet here you are.
amazing.
Its amazing that you can sometimes post something that can be seen as coming from a moderately intelligent person...and then in the some thread post something so incredibly stupid and outrageous that shows you to be at the very least, suffering from a mental illness....its quite astounding to witness it in action.....yet you seem to function in society from what I can see.....bi-polar maybe or just occasional electrical storms between you ears......I wonder...
You'll vote for him, because he's your guy. *shrug*Once again, when placed in context, my speculation has NO relation to your moronic blathering.
And were all still waiting for you to explain your accusation on my voting for Obama DESPITE my explanation....but we both know you're too much of a wussy to honestly discuss that, don't we?
Laugh, clown, laugh.
Well bunky, this is where you stop sitting on your brain and start READING OTHER NEWS SOURCES...like the foreign press, alternative news sources. If there was some concession in favor of N. Korea...Kim Jong Il is sure as hell going to brag about it a controlled press release.
To date: nothing. All we've got is the rabid anti-Obama supposition and conjecture.
The two women were investigative reporters....they knew (or should have known) the risks of screwing around the borders of a hostile nation. Once captured, Jong Il only request was to talk to Clinton....the man who had a working relationship with him (and got MONITORING of their nuke facilities in the deal...until the Shrub stole into office). Jong wants to go out as a level headed statesman (a delusion, to be sure...but in step with his propaganda). To spectulate that Clinton (no longer in office, by the way) "gave away" something vital to national security at Obama's behest is just neocon wishful thinking.
Not yet. *shrug*Oh, please. The missiles were not shot at anyone.
And here's a challenge that I've put to every neocon blowhard over the past 8 years...and too date they all cop out. Maybe someone of your (albeit false) bravado will rise to the challenge?
Logically and factually disprove JUST ONE ITEM from the following website. I want FACTS, NOT YOUR OPINION, SUPPOSITION OR CONJECTURE:
www.bushlies.net
Get cracking, tough guy. Put up or shut up.
Not yet. *shrug*
And just who would he shoot them at?
He knows if he shoots them at anyone there will be massive retaliation by the US and others. However, and this is the point, the US and others know if they shoot at him first he will get in a blow or two before he's vaporized.
Let's be realistic here. He saw what happened in Iraq. He heard all the rumblings about Syria and Iran. He knows lies and propaganda could lead to an invasion at any time, depending on who's sitting in the White House.
He may be crazy but he's not stupid. That's why he shot those missiles for all to see. He has no chance of winning a war but he's letting folks know he's not going down without a fight.
Argumentum ad ignorantiam *shrug*
To play a silly game... Watch your shoes, folks, Bravo is about to shovel some major BS
This is kind of crap presented as Bush lies....no dates are given and no sources noted.... Either you're a liar or you didn't READ CAREFULLY AND COMPREHENSIVELY...because those little numbers next to the items indicate what sources the statements were based on or quoted from, which are listed at the BOTTOM OF THE PAGE. Jeezus, weren't you the least curious as to what those numbers meant?
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The Bush administration religiously chanted the contention that Iraq possessed weapons of mass destruction as its basis for a war.
For example, in his address to the nation Bush said the intelligence “leaves no doubt that . . . Iraq . . . continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised.”
Vice President Cheney also was part of the chorus and declared that “there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction.”
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while of course ignoring these FACTS...
http://www.snopes.com/politics/war/wmdquotes.asp
May as well ignore more FACTS....why would Bush believe National Inelligence....The National Intelligence Council (NIC) is best known as the organization that produces National Intelligence Estimates
December, 2001 National Intelligence Report
Iraq
Baghdad’s goal of becoming the predominant regional power and its hostile relations with many of its neighbors are the key drivers behind Iraq’s ballistic missile program. Iraq has been able to maintain the infrastructure and expertise necessary to develop missiles, and the IC believes it has retained a small, covert force of Scud-type missiles, launchers, and Scud-specific production equipment and support apparatus. For the next several years at least, Iraq’s ballistic missile initiatives probably will focus on reconstituting its pre-Gulf war capabilities to threaten regional targets and probably will not advance beyond MRBM systems.
Ballistic Missile Programs
Prior to the Gulf war, Iraq had several programs to extend the range of the Scud
SRBM and became experienced working with liquid-propellant technology. Since the Gulf war, despite UN resolutions limiting the range of Iraq’s missiles to 150 km, Baghdad has been able to maintain the infrastructure and expertise necessary to develop longer range missile systems.
* A military parade in December 2000 showcased Al Samoud missiles on new transporter-erector-launchers (TELs). The liquid-propellant Al-Samoud SRBM probably will be deployed soon.
* The IC assesses that Iraq retains a small covert force of Scud-variant missiles, launchers, and conventional, chemical, and biological warheads.
We cannot project with confidence how long UN-related sanctions and prohibitions will remain in place. They plausibly will constrain Iraq during the entire period of this Estimate. Scenarios that would weaken the prohibitions several years from now also are conceivable, allowing Iraq to reconstitute its missile infrastructure and begin developing long-range missiles before the end of the decade. The discussion that follows addresses developments that could and are likely to occur should UN prohibitions be significantly weakened in the future.
Iraq is likely to use its experience with Scud technology to resume production of the pre-Gulf war 650-km-range Al Hussein, the 900-km-range Al Abbas, or other Scud variants, and it could explore clustering and staging options to reach more distant targets. Iraq could resume Scud-variant production—with foreign assistance—quickly after UN prohibitions ended.
* With substantial foreign assistance, Baghdad could flight-test a domestic MRBM by mid-decade. This possibility presumes rapid erosion of UN prohibitions and Baghdad's willingness to risk detection of developmental steps, such as static engine testing, earlier. An MRBM flight test is likely by 2010. An imported MRBM could be flight-tested within months of acquisition.
For the first several years after relief from UN prohibitions, Iraq probably will strive to reestablish its SRBM inventory to pre-Gulf war numbers, continue developing and deploying solid-propellant systems, and pursue MRBMs to keep pace with its neighbors. Once its regional security concerns are being addressed, Iraq may pursue a first-generation ICBM/SLV.
Although Iraq could attempt before 2015 to test a rudimentary long-range missile based on its failed Al-Abid SLV, such a missile almost certainly would fail. Iraq is unlikely to make such an attempt. After observing North Korean missile developments the past few years, Iraq would be more likely to pursue a three-stage TD-2 approach to an SLV or ICBM, which would be capable of delivering a nuclear weapon-sized payload to the United States. Some postulations for potential Iraqi ICBM/SLV concepts and timelines from the beginning of UN prohibition relief include:
* If Iraq could buy a TD-2 from North Korea, it could have a launch capability within a year or two of a purchase.
* It could develop and test a TD-1-type system within a few years.
* If it acquired No Dongs from North Korea, it could test an ICBM within a few years of acquisition by clustering and staging the No Dongs—similar to the clustering of Scuds for the Al Abid SLV.
* If Iraq bought TD-2 engines, it could test an ICBM within about five years of the acquisition.
* Iraq could develop and test a Taepo Dong-2-type system within about ten years of a decision to do so.
Most agencies believe that Iraq is unlikely to test before 2015 any ICBMs that would threaten the United States, even if UN prohibitions were eliminated or significantly reduced in the next few years. Some believe that if prohibitions were eliminated in the next few years, Iraq would be likely to test an ICBM probably masked as an SLV before 2015, possibly before 2010. In this view, foreign assistance would affect the timing and the capability of the missile.
WMD Payload Options
Baghdad had a crash program to develop a nuclear weapon for missile delivery in 1990, but coalition bombing and IAEA and UNSCOM activities significantly set back the effort. The Intelligence Community estimates that Iraq, unconstrained, would take several years to produce enough fissile material to make a weapon. Iraq has admitted to having biological and chemical weapons programs before the Gulf war and maintains those programs.
Foreign Assistance
Foreign assistance is key to Iraqi efforts to develop quickly longer range missiles. Iraq relied on extensive foreign assistance before the Gulf war and will continue to seek foreign assistance to expand its current capabilities.
-------------------
Key Judgments [from October 2002 NIE]
Iraq's Continuing Programs for Weapons of Mass Destruction
For those interested in the WHOLE truth:
The 2002 National Intelligence Estimate (which the administration seeks to pass all the blame to) indicated “we have little specific information on Iraq’s CW stockpile.” At the same time, the Defense Intelligence Agency concluded that there was “no reliable information on whether Iraq is producing and stockpiling chemical weapons.” (Corn – The Nation 02.15.04, CAP Daily Progress Report – Claim v. Fact: The President on Meet the Press (“Meet the Press Claims”) 02.09.04)
We judge that Iraq has continued its weapons of mass destruction (WMD) programs in defiance of UN resolutions and restrictions. Baghdad has chemical and biological weapons as well as missiles with ranges in excess of UN restrictions; if left unchecked, it probably will have a nuclear weapon during this decade. (See INR alternative view at the end of these Key Judgments.)
We judge that we are seeing only a portion of Iraq’s WMD efforts, owing to Baghdad’s vigorous denial and deception efforts. Revelations after the Gulf war starkly demonstrate the extensive efforts undertaken by Iraq to deny information. We lack specific information on many key aspects of Iraq’s WMD programs.
Since inspections ended in 1998, Iraq has maintained its chemical weapons effort, energized its missile program, and invested more heavily in biological weapons; in the view of most agencies, Baghdad is reconstituting its nuclear weapons program.
• Iraq’s growing ability to sell oil illicitly increases Baghdad’s capabilities to finance WMD programs; annual earnings in cash and goods have more than quadrupled, from $580 million in 1998 to about $3 billion this year.
• Iraq has largely rebuilt missile and biological weapons facilities damaged during Operation Desert Fox and has expanded its chemical and biological infrastructure under the cover of civilian production.
• Baghdad has exceeded UN range limits of 150 km with its ballistic missiles and is working with unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs), which allow for a more lethal means to deliver biological and, less likely, chemical warfare agents.
• Although we assess that Saddam does not yet have nuclear weapons or sufficient material to make any, he remains intent on acquiring them. Most agencies assess that Baghdad started reconstituting its nuclear program about the time that UNSCOM inspectors departed — December 1998.
How quickly Iraq will obtain its first nuclear weapon depends on when it acquires sufficient weapons-grade fissile material.
• If Baghdad acquires sufficient fissile material from abroad it could make a nuclear weapon within several months to a year. {p.2}
• Without such material from abroad, Iraq probably would not be able to make a weapon until 2007 to 2009, owing to inexperience in building and operating centrifuge facilities to produce highly enriched uranium and challenges in procuring the necessary equipment and expertise.
– Most agencies believe that Saddam’s personal interest in and Iraq’s aggressive attempts to obtain high-strength aluminum tubes for centrifuge rotors — as well as Iraq’s attempts to acquire magnets, high-speed balancing machines, and machine tools — provide compelling evidence that Saddam is reconstituting a uranium enrichment effort for Baghdad’s nuclear weapons program. (DOE agrees that reconstitution of the nuclear program is underway but assesses that the tubes probably are not part of the program.)
– Iraq’s efforts to re-establish and enhance its cadre of weapons personnel as well as activities at several suspect nuclear sites further indicate that reconstitution is underway.
– All agencies agree that about 25,000 centrifuges based on tubes of the size Iraq is trying to acquire would be capable of producing approximately two weapons’ worth of highly enriched uranium per year.
• In a much less lively scenario, Baghdad could make enough fissile material for a nuclear weapon by 2005 to 2007 if it obtains suitable centrifuge tubes this year and has all the other materials and technological expertise necessary to build production-scale uranium enrichment facilities.
We assess that Baghdad has begun renewed production of mustard, sarin, GF (cyclosarin), and VX; its capability probably is more limited now than it was at the time of the Gulf war, although VX production and agent storage life probably have been improved.
• An array of clandestine reporting reveals that Baghdad has procured covertly the types and quantities of chemicals and equipment sufficient to allow limited CW agent production hidden within Iraq’s legitimate chemical industry.
• Although we have little specific information on Iraq’s CW stockpile, Saddam probably has stocked at least 100 metric tons (MT) and possibly as much as 500 MT of CW agents — much of it added in the last year.
• The Iraqis have experience in manufacturing CW bombs, artillery rockets, and projectiles. We assess that that they possess CW bulk fills for SRBM warheads, including for a limited number of covertly stored Scuds, possibly a few with extended ranges.
We judge that all key aspects — R&D, production, and weaponization — of Iraq’s offensive BW program are active and that most elements are larger and more advanced than they were before the Gulf war.
• We judge Iraq has some lethal and incapacitating BW agents and is capable of quickly producing and weaponizing a variety of such agents, including anthrax, for delivery by bombs, missiles, aerial sprayers, and covert operatives. {p.3}
– Chances are even that smallpox is part of Iraq’s offensive BW program.
– Baghdad probably has developed genetically engineered BW agents.
• Baghdad has established a large-scale, redundant, and concealed BW agent production capability.
– Baghdad has mobile facilities for producing bacterial and toxin BW agents; these facilities can evade detection and are highly survivable. Within three to six months * these units probably could produce an amount of agent equal to the total that Iraq produced in the years prior to the Gulf war.
________
I don't pretend to claim that these conclusions were accurate because we NOW know they were not....but this clearly shows WHAT WAS BELEIVED AT THE TIME....so the claim that they were lies is just the crap that spew from the mouths of clowns that refuse to reason with an open mind....
but I tire of the silly game....maybe tc can find another to play....
p out. Maybe someone of your (albeit false) bravado will rise to the challenge?
Logically and factually disprove JUST ONE ITEM from the following website. I want FACTS, NOT YOUR OPINION, SUPPOSITION OR CONJECTURE:
lol....I'm still waiting for some liberal to prove one of them....
.Amazing, you know damned well that all this you provided essentially repeats contentions MINUS contrary information that WAS provided at the time. To cover your lie, you spout the BS that since it was BELIEVED, then the actions were excused.
Sorry, but that BS didn't fly in grade school when the teachers caught you lying, and it doesn't fly now.
I said DISPROVE the information, NOT regurgitate chronologically excerpted details and speculations. For once, my intellectually impotent neocon blowhard try to be honest and deal with ALL THE FACTS IN THEIR RELEVENT TIME FRAME. Here are some samples:
On the Sunday before the war, Vice President Cheney claimed “we believe [Hussein] has, in fact, reconstituted nuclear weapons."
Cheney reiterated his contention that Iraq had reconstituted its nuclear weapons program.
--------------------------------
In February 2001, the CIA warned the White House “we do not have any direct evidence that Iraq has used the period since [the first Gulf War] to reconstitute its Weapons of Mass Destruction Programs.” The report was so definitive that it led Colin Powell to state in a subsequent press conference that Iraq had “not developed any significant capability with respect to weapons of mass destruction.” (Sirota & Harvey – In These Times 08.03.04)
In October 2002, the State Department’s Intelligence and Research Department told the White House that its WMD conclusions were inaccurate, reporting that “the activities we have detected do not . . .add up to a compelling case that Iraq is currently pursuing . . . an integrated and comprehensive approach to acquiring nuclear weapons.” (CAP Daily Progress Report 01.28.04)
Yet, in Sept. or 2002 Sen. Carl Levin (d, MI), Sept. 19, 2002, Democratic Sen. Levin is claiming this....go figure....
"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and the means of delivering them."
Cheney’s claim also is contradicted by the IAEA’s findings and Cheney’s statement moments later that it was “only a matter of time before he acquires nuclear weapons.”
See Sen. Levin's comment....
Six months later Cheney said that this was an incorrect statement as “[w]e never had any evidence that he had acquired a nuclear weapon.” (Pincus & Milbank – Washington Post 03.18.03; Independent 01.25.04)
No contradiction at all (for those that understand the written word, anyhow)no one claimed Saddam had ACQUIRED a nuke...
Cheney’s reliance on the National Intelligence Estimate is misleading since he quoted conclusions which the report conceded were based on “inadequate” evidence or were disputed by intelligence sources. (Waxman – FindLaw.com 08.19.03)
Well, so shit Dick Tracy....thats why its called the National Intelligence ESTIMATE....got that ESTIMATE...its intelligence Pinhead, its not math....
its an ESTIMATE
----------------------------------------------
In his October address, Bush claimed that the “evidence indicates that Iraq is reconstituting its nuclear weapons program. Saddam Hussein has held numerous meetings with Iraqi nuclear scientists, a group of his ‘nuclear mujahedeen,’ his nuclear holy warriors.”
In October 2002 Bush also stated, “[Iraq] is moving ever closer to developing a nuclear weapon.”
And just a month before....
"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."
Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002.
"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power."
Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002.
"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is using and developing weapons of mass destruction."
Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002.
Al Gore and Ted Kennedy....???? WOW
“The International Atomic Energy Agency confirmed in the 1990s that Saddam Hussein had an advanced nuclear weapons development program, had a design for a nuclear weapon and was . . . enriching uranium for a bomb.” (SOU)
Thus the infamous quotes of the 1990's shown below..(From DEMOCRATS)
--------------------------------
As explained by the Washington Post, “Bush and others often alleged that President Hussein held numerous meetings with Iraqi nuclear scientists, but did not disclose that the known work of the scientists was largely benign.” (Gellman & Pincus – Washington Post Weekly 08.14.03)
"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line."
President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998.
"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
President Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998.
"Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face."
Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998.
"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983."
Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998
"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."
Letter to President Clinton, signed by Sens. Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others Oct. 9, 1998.
"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998.
Also in October 2002, the State Department’s Intelligence and Research Department told the White House that its WMD conclusions were inaccurate, reporting that “the activities we have detected do not . . .add up to a compelling case that Iraq is currently pursuing . . . an integrated and comprehensive approach to acquiring nuclear weapons.” This conclusion was reiterated to Secretary Powell before his presentation to the UN Security Council. ()
The IAEA found that Iraq’s nuclear capacity had been completely dismantled by 1998 and the current IAEA inspector reported to the UN Security Council in January 2003 “we have found no evidence that Iraq has revived its nuclear weapons program since the elimination of the program in the 1990’s.” A former Iraqi scientist who participated in the nuclear program and now lives in Canada said that Iraq lacks the expertise and hardware to produce a nuclear bomb. (Gordon & Risen – New York Times 01.28.03, Institute for Public Accuracy SOU Response, Donovan – Toronto Star 01.31.03)
-----------------------
Yet in January of 2003 we hear from John Kerry...would be Democratic President......
"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction. "Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation. And now he has continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction ... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real ...
Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003.
In September 2002, Bush claimed an International Atomic Energy Agency report stated that Iraq was “six months away from developing a [nuclear] weapon.” (SOU)
No such report exists. A 1998 report concluded that there “are no indications that there remains in Iraq any physical capability for the production of weapon-usable nuclear material of any practical significance."
At least four times during the fall of 2002, President Bush, Secretary Rumsfeld and other administration officials invoked the specter of a “mushroom cloud” to argue that Iraq’s nuclear ambitions were a threat to the US homeland.
In 2003, IAEA inspectors have found no evidence of a nuclear program.
The CIA concurred with this analysis. In fact, its January 2002 review of WMD proliferation warned of a threat from North Korea, but not Iraq. (Gordon & Risen – New York Times 01.28.03, Hans – Common Dreams.org 02.04.03, Ackerman & Judis – The New Republic 06.30.03, Schorr – Christian Science Monitor 10.24.03, Gellman – Washington Post 10.26.03)
On August 26, 2002, Cheney claimed Hussein had the nuclear capability to directly threaten “anyone he chooses, in his own region or beyond.”
In addition, the vice chairman of the National Intelligence Council explained that the CIA concluded that Iraq would not have nuclear weapons until the end of the decade – not within six months. (Corn – The Nation 01.08.04)
But I tire of the game.....what was quoted by Clinton and his Administration and other Democrats well into 2003 is what they thought was the true....thats just the sad fact of the matter....but I'll not continue arguing with narrow-minded pinheads about it.....history will get it right as the 9/11 Commission got most of it right and its there for interested folks to read and analyze.....pinheads need only continue to suck up the Koolade and get your facts from far-left, Bush hating blogs.....
You are dismissed![]()
nothing I haven't seen for the last six years....if you think you can prove some of it this time, feel free....Grow a pair and READ the material at the site and it's sources