Latest in Stimulus: 'Cash for Refrigerators'

TurdFerguson said:
"The left" wasn't saying that. Economists were saying that. And it's true. Feel free to check with the folks at Moody's.

And it's a comparative measure. It would be much more stimulating for Obama to give $1,000 each to 15 families at the poverty line than it would be to use $15,000 to rent a house on the Vineyard, but the latter contributes to economic growth, just not as much as the former.
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If it is "true" then my question is valid. Why would this be "stimulating" the economy and wouldn't it be better to use facilities that are already prepared for them and spend the money in more "stimulating" ways setting a powerful example?

Seriously, the circular reasoning of the true believer perplexes me, people really are trying to have it both ways as they work to defend "The Obama". And this isn't even an attack. I just question people who support him saying that this is some sort of powerful stimulus when they also say that rich people aren't going to spend the money.
 
Onceler said:
I have said often that I believe in the kitchen sink strategy. You know quite well that I supported the bank bailouts & big 3 bailouts, and that I support a wide range of stimulus spending, and cuts for small business.

I think any money flowing is a fairly good thing. What good would it do for Obama to find a $2K rental for symbolic purposes?

You're a renter. If you got $35K for one of your rentals, I would wager that you would invest or spend that in some way that would be stimulative right now.
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Nah, wouldn't it be better to go to Camp David, and spend the money in more directly stimulating ways? Buy a huge electric limo built by GM or something. This would cause a huge amount of jobs. People would have to create the thing...

I just don't see trumpeting this as a powerful stimulus. It's weak and goes directly against the "trickle-down doesn't work" argument of the past few decades.
 
Damocles said:
Nah, wouldn't it be better to go to Camp David, and spend the money in more directly stimulating ways? Buy a huge electric limo built by GM or something. This would cause a huge amount of jobs. People would have to create the thing...

I just don't see trumpeting this as a powerful stimulus. It's weak and goes directly against the "trickle-down doesn't work" argument of the past few decades.
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Am I trumpeting this as a "powerful stimulus"? I didn't think I was. I never know I'm doing something until you tell me I'm doing it.

I just said that I'm glad when rich guys do decide to put there money back into the economy, by spending it, however they choose to spend it.

I'm not big on symbolic gestures, and have spoken about that often on the board. Topspin is the guy who says people shouldn't take private jets & stuff like that; I could care less.
 
Damocles said:
If it is "true" then my question is valid. Why would this be "stimulating" the economy and wouldn't it be better to use facilities that are already prepared for them and spend the money in more "stimulating" ways setting a powerful example?

Seriously, the circular reasoning of the true believer perplexes me, people really are trying to have it both ways as they work to defend "The Obama". And this isn't even an attack. I just question people who support him saying that this is some sort of powerful stimulus when they also say that rich people aren't going to spend the money.
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Dude, you're the only one talking about "stimulating" the economy. Onceler merely said that Obama was putting money back in to the economy, not that this transaction is particularly stimulating.

Congratulations, you defeated the straw man. The "true believer" horseshit is a nice touch. Hack.
 
TurdFerguson said:
Dude, you're the only one talking about "stimulating" the economy. Onceler merely said that Obama was putting money back in to the economy, not that this transaction is particularly stimulating.

Congratulations, you defeated the straw man. The "true believer" horseshit is a nice touch. Hack.
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Bullpucky, Turd. Seriously. There's a whole thread where they are talking it up as "stimulating" the economy. There is nothing like a lefty suddenly talking up trickle down economics, but it really is quite a turn from the past decade's worth of work dismissing that idea.

Personally, as I said, Obama should stay where he wants and spend as he wishes. The only thing I question are those who are stating how it is "stimulus", if you aren't one of them then I am not questioning you. Saying "hack" doesn't absolve you of the title, nor does it prove that another actually is a "hack"... What will prove it is if you actually do turn out to be one of those who say they are disappointed in one thread then are willing to defend unto the end in another...
 
Damocles said:
Bullpucky, Turd. Seriously. There's a whole thread where they are talking it up as "stimulating" the economy. There is nothing like a lefty suddenly talking up trickle down economics, but it really is quite a turn from the past decade's worth of work dismissing that idea.

Personally, as I said, Obama should stay where he wants and spend as he wishes. The only thing I question are those who are stating how it is "stimulus", if you aren't one of them then I am not questioning you.
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Where's that thread? I haven't reviewed it. I'm only talking about what Onceler asserted here,

And I don't think "the left" (although I can only speak for myself) has said that trickle down economic does not ever cause any economic growth. Rather, the argument is that it is a shitty way to go about promoting economic growth and that you get faster and higher levels of growth by putting money in the hands of the middle and lower classes directly rather than having it trickle down to them from up on high. Let's try a little intellectual honesty here.
 
TurdFerguson said:
Where's that thread? I haven't reviewed it. I'm only talking about what Onceler asserted here,

And I don't think "the left" (although I can only speak for myself) has said that trickle down economic does not ever cause any economic growth. Rather, the argument is that it is a shitty way to go about promoting economic growth and that you get faster and higher levels of growth by putting money in the hands of the middle and lower classes directly rather than having it trickle down to them from up on high. Let's try a little intellectual honesty here.
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Beyond that, his trickle-down gotcha is a complete strawman. My whole point about Obama spending the $35K is that I want rich guys to spend their money, with abandon. If more rich guys spent their money - particularly money that they already have - it wouldn't exactly trickle down.

Damo is just hell-bent on finding that elusive liberal double-standard; it's his raison d'etre. There is no stopping him now.
 
TurdFerguson said:
Where's that thread? I haven't reviewed it. I'm only talking about what Onceler asserted here,

And I don't think "the left" (although I can only speak for myself) has said that trickle down economic does not ever cause any economic growth. Rather, the argument is that it is a shitty way to go about promoting economic growth and that you get faster and higher levels of growth by putting money in the hands of the middle and lower classes directly rather than having it trickle down to them from up on high. Let's try a little intellectual honesty here.
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*sigh*

pot/kettle and stuff...

For the past two decades all I have heard is how it "doesn't work", those were the words used not, 'it isn't as efficient.'

I don't know what your disconnect is yet, but in this thread you've jumped all over attempting to defend stuff before you have all the information. I understand you haven't been around much recently to learn what the arguments have been on this board, but you should also recognize that before you start jumping into defense mode and accusing others of "hack".
 
Damocles said:
*sigh*

pot/kettle and stuff...

For the past two decades all I have heard is how it "doesn't work", those were the words used not, 'it isn't as efficient.'

I don't know what your disconnect is yet, but in this thread you've jumped all over attempting to defend stuff before you have all the information. I understand you haven't been around much recently to learn what the arguments have been on this board, but you should also recognize that before you start jumping into defense mode and accusing others of "hack".
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Trickle down doesn't work to improve the lives of middle and lower class folks as advertised, but it does promote very modest amounts of economic growth. So it doesn't work on the one hand, and isn't as efficient on the other.
 
Onceler said:
It's disingenuous to say that this line, taken out of context from last October - which was basically the beginning of the crisis hitting main street - equates to his philosophy now, as we are - by many accounts - on the brink of recovery.

Obama has indeed spoken about consumer spending, and its importance to the American economy. I'd be surprised if you could find quotes from the past few months where he is encouraging Americans to stop spending; he definitely understands the importance of consumer spending to the economy.

Here is a link to a press conference where he speaks about consumer spending:

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/02/09/obama.conference.transcript/
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the quote was not taken out of context.....nice try, but fail....

your link does not have obama telling people to start spending or untighten their belts....in fact the link says:

It is only government that can break the vicious cycle, where lost jobs lead to people spending less money, which
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the speech was more about the government than individual consumers....if he no longer stands by the quote from october fine....but i haven't heard anything from him to the contrary...

As for the $35K on a house, I'm glad that a rich guy like Obama is putting money back into the economy. I fail to see the hypocrisy there.
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sweet....trickle down economics....the hypocrisy is him telling people to spread their wealth to those in need....giving 35K to another rich person only works to spread the wealth if trickle down economics works....
 
Yurt said:
Latest in Stimulus: 'Cash for Refrigerators'

$300 million cash-for-clunkers-type federal program to boost sales of energy-efficient home appliances provides a glimmer of hope for beleaguered makers of washing machines and dishwashers, but it's probably not enough to lift companies such as Whirlpool (NYSE:WHR - News) and Electrolux out of the worst down cycle in the sector's history.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/bw/20090824/bs_bw/aug2009db20090821304909


this is funny....dems complained bush gave money to EVIL corporations, bailouts etc....and all i've heard from the stimulus is money to corporations, big business....but corporations are evil...
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It helps the economy, it reduces our carbon footprint, it contributes in at least a small measure to energy efficiency, it makes sense environmentally, and it uses "market" solutions.

What's the problem?
 
Onceler said:
Cripes; is Yurt still trying to find a more recent "tighten your belt" comment?

It shouldn't take that long...
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cripes an entire 11 minutes pass, yurt isn't on the board and onceler gets his panties in a twist....

i never claimed there was a more recent comment, in fact i clearly stated that the comment was made back then, however, i have not seen him retract or tell us any different....
 
Cypress said:
It helps the economy, it reduces our carbon footprint, it contributes in at least a small measure to energy efficiency, it makes sense environmentally, and it uses "market" solutions.

What's the problem?
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i don't really have a problem with this....it is humorous that when a dem gives money to corporations or induces people to give money to corporations, its a good thing.....but when a repub does it....its evil
 
Why are righties falsely claiming that Obama spending $35K on a rental equates to "trickle-down economics?"

Correct me if I'm wrong here: wasn't the left's complaint with "trickle down" that the rich would NOT spend the money?

Obama is SPENDING the money.

You guys are so hell-bent on your double-standard police thing that you twist yourself into pretzels...
 
"the quote was not taken out of context.....nice try, but fail....

your link does not have obama telling people to start spending or untighten their belts....in fact the link says:"

It is taken out of context; if you read the speech, he's not really telling people to stop spending.

And, if you read the press conference I posted, he is definitely referring to consumer spending as well as gov't spending. A reporter even challenges him on that.

Regardless, circumstances have definitely changed since October, and the admin knows full well that consumer spending is a foundation of the economy. They're not going to tell people to stop spending. They might tell them to avoid the pitfalls of personal debt, but they won't tell them to stop spending the money they have.

That's the whole idea of their stimulus. Your argument here is completely dishonest.
 
Damocles said:
Why would I want a new refrigerator?
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I don't, but my wife wants to replace our perfectly good one with stainless steel to match the remaining appliances. Maybe I'll go buy a real old one at the Re-store and trade that in, and use this one downstairs for beer. LOL
 
Yurt said:
i don't really have a problem with this....it is humorous that when a dem gives money to corporations or induces people to give money to corporations, its a good thing.....but when a repub does it....its evil
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I've never heard of liberals as a general rule being against incentives for consumers and companies, when it harnesses market forces to the benefit of both the environment and jobs.

I think you're just stretching to find something - anything - to complain about liberals about.
 
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