Russian sailors evacuate warship in the Black Sea after Ukraine attack;

Bigdog said:
A valid example, but that was 35 years ago and she didn't sink. And it was a surprise attack. The USS Stark was not in 'combat mode' until seconds before the missiles struck.

The low morale and possible Russian family ties to Ukraine would support the sabotage theory.
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Russians sabotaging their own vessel is a possibility. I'm still thinking it was Russian Hinds that shot up the oil deport in Russia.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Russians sabotaging their own vessel is a possibility. I'm still thinking it was Russian Hinds that shot up the oil deport in Russia.
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I believe that was a Russian false flag op, too.

I forgot to mention, those exocets were fired from an Iraqi Mirage jet fighter like 12 miles away, not from shore.
 
Russian—warships should have jammers to interfere with enemy ASMs’ seekers plus guns and missiles to shoot down any ASMs that get past the jammers.

Moskva, which commissioned in 1982, was heavily armed with 64 S-300 long-range air-defense missiles for area protection and 40 Osa short-range missiles for aerial self-defense, plus a bevy of guns. She also had Rum Tub and Side Globe jammers.

We don’t know how well-maintained those systems were aboard Moskva nor how trained, motivated and alert their operators were at 1 in the morning when the alleged Neptune strike occurred.

Regardless, assuming the Ukrainians are telling the truth, all those missiles and jammers clearly were inadequate — the 17-foot Neptunes got through. Moskva burned then sank.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davida...saved-russias-cruiser-moskva/?sh=4d8dcae36de1
 
FAST FACTS
https://www.foxnews.com/live-news/ukraine-russia-live-updates-04-15-2022
Russia is claiming to have destroyed a factory in Kyiv that makes anti-ship missiles after confirming that the flagship vessel of its Black Sea navy has sunk.

Mariupol’s City Council is warning that Russia’s military is carrying out a "new level of cleansing" in the besieged Ukrainian city by not allowing residents to bury deceased civilians.

Russia warned the U.S. and NATO this week that there could be "unpredictable consequences" if they continue to send Ukraine "sensitive" weapons as it prepares to launch a massive ground offensive in eastern Ukraine, a report said Friday.
 
Bigdog said:
I believe that was a Russian false flag op, too.

I forgot to mention, those exocets were fired from an Iraqi Mirage jet fighter like 12 miles away, not from shore.
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Stupid false flag to blow up an oil depot. Smarter to dress up prisoners in Ukrainian uniforms and some in Russian clothes then shoot them all and blame the "atrocity" on the Ukrainians.

The distance doesn't matter since surface hugging cruise missiles, when fired from over the horizon, allow the same reaction time. 12 miles or 62 miles doesn't matter as the calculations prove.

Although I couldn't find the exact height, the Moskva appears to be half again as tall as it is wide, about 68 feet. Using 100 feet in the calculator below yields the horizon to be 12.3 miles away. The USS Stark was smaller: https://www.navysite.de/ffg/FFG31.HTM

Horizon calculator:
http://www.ringbell.co.uk/info/hdist.htm

ussr_moskva_slava_class_project_missile_cruiser_1983-43919.jpg
 
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dukkha said:
FAST FACTS
https://www.foxnews.com/live-news/ukraine-russia-live-updates-04-15-2022
Russia is claiming to have destroyed a factory in Kyiv that makes anti-ship missiles after confirming that the flagship vessel of its Black Sea navy has sunk.

Mariupol’s City Council is warning that Russia’s military is carrying out a "new level of cleansing" in the besieged Ukrainian city by not allowing residents to bury deceased civilians.

Russia warned the U.S. and NATO this week that there could be "unpredictable consequences" if they continue to send Ukraine "sensitive" weapons as it prepares to launch a massive ground offensive in eastern Ukraine, a report said Friday.
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More Russian genocide. The fuckers won't be happy until they've murdered all the men, women and children in Ukraine. After raping them first, of course.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Stupid false flag to blow up an oil depot. Smarter to dress up prisoners in Ukrainian uniforms and some in Russian clothes then shoot them all and blame the "atrocity" on the Ukrainians.

The distance doesn't matter since surface hugging cruise missiles, when fired from over the horizon, allow the same reaction time. 12 miles or 62 miles doesn't matter as the calculations prove.

Although I couldn't find the exact height, the Moskva appears to be about as tall as it is wide, about 68 feet. Using 70 feet in the calculator below yields the horizon to be 10.3 miles away.

Horizon calculator:
http://www.ringbell.co.uk/info/hdist.htm

ussr_moskva_slava_class_project_missile_cruiser_1983-43919.jpg
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Nice info on the ship. I did not know it was so small.

DU wrote:" I'm still thinking it was Russian Hinds that shot up the oil deport in Russia."

So you're saying that the Hind pilots were revolting against Pootie?

Agreed, Human atrocities do work the best.

Russia claims 8 storage tanks were destroyed. How much oil was in them? ... empty? Fog of War. The first casualty of war is truth, as you already know. The Ukrainians still deny that attack. Why won't they take the victory and the accolades? So many unanswered questions, and so much propaganda. We're all left to speculate.
 
Bigdog said:
Nice info on the ship. I did not know it was so small.

DU wrote:" I'm still thinking it was Russian Hinds that shot up the oil deport in Russia."

So you're saying that the Hind pilots were revolting against Pootie?

Agreed, Human atrocities do work the best.

Russia claims 8 storage tanks were destroyed. How much oil was in them? ... empty? Fog of War. The first casualty of war is truth, as you already know. The Ukrainians still deny that attack. Why won't they take the victory and the accolades? So many unanswered questions, and so much propaganda. We're all left to speculate.
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Yes, just like the Russians who killed their own officers.

They burned pretty good when hit. Additionally, even if they were empty, the loss of storage capacity harms the Russian war effort. As pointed out, there are easier ways to stage a false flag incident without hobbling one's own ability to wage war.

BTW, I recalculated my math since I initially used the old helicopter carrier Moskva, not the newer missile cruiser.
 
Jack said:
"Russian State Media service TASS, quoting the Russian Ministry of Defense, confirmed the ship caught fire after being "seriously damaged" and that the entire crew had been evacuated."


Dukkha wrings hands in utter grief. Claiming to anyone that will listen 'The ship was on a Mission of Peace'.
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Poor Dookie!!!!! :laugh:

His pain is our pleasure. ;)
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Yes, just like the Russians who killed their own officers.

They burned pretty good when hit. Additionally, even if they were empty, the loss of storage capacity harms the Russian war effort. As pointed out, there are easier ways to stage a false flag incident without hobbling one's own ability to wage war.

BTW, I recalculated my math since I initially used the old helicopter carrier Moskva, not the newer missile cruiser.
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Good points.

It was close to the border, so it's possible they were trying to deny the Ukrainians control of that oil. Also, all the oil reserves there were owned by one Russian oligarch. Maybe he got on Pootie's bad side.

With Ukraine still not claiming a victory for the attack, we are left to speculate.
 
Bigdog said:
Good points.

It was close to the border, so it's possible they were trying to deny the Ukrainians control of that oil. Also, all the oil reserves there were owned by one Russian oligarch. Maybe he got on Pootie's bad side.

With Ukraine still not claiming a victory for the attack, we are left to speculate.
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IIRC, the depot was 10 miles inside the Russian border. Better strategy to focus on Ukrainian oil facilities.

The Ukrainians failing to claim responsibility is the biggest indicator to me that revolting Russian pilots executed the raid.

Russia has a world-class air defense system and no one even took a shot at the two Hinds.

I'm curious if our intelligence agencies were able to enhance the videos enough to see the markings on the Hinds.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
IIRC, the depot was 10 miles inside the Russian border. Better strategy to focus on Ukrainian oil facilities.

The Ukrainians failing to claim responsibility is the biggest indicator to me that revolting Russian pilots executed the raid.

Russia has a world-class air defense system and no one even took a shot at the two Hinds.

I'm curious if our intelligence agencies were able to enhance the videos enough to see the markings on the Hinds.
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I would think that the Hind pilots would have defected and flew to Ukraine, and be celebrated as heroes. And get their anti Putin message heard by the world.
 
Bigdog said:
I would think that the Hind pilots would have defected and flew to Ukraine, and be celebrated as heroes. And get their anti Putin message heard by the world.
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...and never go home again? I think they love Russia but dislike what Putin is doing to them. Maybe, like the Insurrectionists and White Supremacist terrorists, they believed they could kick off a second Russian Civil War...which would be a wonder to see.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
...and never go home again? I think they love Russia but dislike what Putin is doing to them. Maybe, like the Insurrectionists and White Supremacist terrorists, they believed they could kick off a second Russian Civil War...which would be a wonder to see.
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Unarmed Insurrectionists? Never heard of such a thing. :dunno:

White supremacists lost all their power and numbers decades ago, despite the megaphone you white libs give them.

If the pilots spoke publicly, they could lead the Russian civil war, and return to continue the fight they started.
 
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