DEBATE SHOWS HOW LITTLE OBAMA UNDERSTANDS.

TuTu Monroe

A Realist
As I have said many times, Obama doesn't know what he's doing.

August 26, 2009

"Choice, competition, reducing costs -- those are the things that I want to see accomplished in this health reform bill," President Obama told talk-show host Michael Smerconish last week.
Choice and competition would be good. They would indeed reduce costs. If only the president meant it. Or understood it.

In a free market, a business that is complacent about costs learns that its prices are too high when it sees lower-cost competitors winning over its customers. The market -- actually, the consumer -- holds businesses accountable and keeps them honest. No "public option" is needed.
So the hope for reducing medical costs indeed lies in competition and choice. Today competition is squelched by government regulation and privilege.
But Obama's so-called reforms would not create real competition and choice. They would prohibit it.
Competition is not a bunch of companies offering the same products and services in the same way. That sterile notion of competition assumes we already know all that there is to know.
But consumers often don't know what they want until it's offered, and their preferences and requirements change. Businesses don't know exactly what consumers want or the most efficient way to produce it until they are in the thick of the competitive hustle and bustle.
Nobel laureate F.A. Hayek taught that competition is a "discovery procedure." In other words, the "data" of supply and demand emerge only through the market process. We need open-ended competition not merely to see which rival is better, but to learn things we didn't know before and aren't likely to learn any other way.
"Competition is valuable only because, and so far as, its results are unpredictable and on the whole different from those which anyone has, or could have, deliberately aimed at," Hayek wrote.
Well-meaning politicians have created untold misery by assuming they and their experts know enough already.
The health care bills are perfect examples. If competition is a discovery process, the congressional bills would impose the opposite of competition. They would forbid real choice.
In place of the variety of products that competition would generate, we would be forced "choose" among virtually identical insurance plans. Government would define these plans down to the last detail. Every one would have at least the same "basic" coverage, including physical exams, maternity benefits, well-baby care, alcoholism treatment and mental-health services. Consumers could not buy a cheap, high-deductible catastrophic policy. Every insurance company would have to use an identical government-designed pricing structure. Prices would be the same for sick and healthy.
In this respect, it wouldn't matter whether or not Congress created a "public option," a government insurance plan. In either case, bureaucrats would dictate virtually every aspect of the health-insurance business.
What Obama says in favor of a public option -- as of today, at least -- tells us how little he understands competition. The public option's virtue, he told Smerconish, is that "there wouldn't be a profit motive involved." But as St. Lawrence University economist Steven Horwitz writes in The Freeman magazine, profit is not just a motive. Profit (along with loss) is what enables competition to perform its discovery role:
"Suppose for a moment that we try to take the profit motive out of health care by going to a system in which government pays for and/or directly provides the services. ... (P)ublic-spirited politicians and bureaucrats have replaced profit-seeking firms.
"By what method exactly will the officials know how to allocate resources? By what method will they know how much of what kind of health care people want? And more important, by what method will they know how to produce that health care without wasting resources? ... In markets with good institutions, profit-seeking producers can get answers to these questions by observing prices and their own profits and losses in order to determine which uses of resources are more or less valuable to consumers. ... (P)rofits and prices signal the efficiency (or lack thereof) of resource use and allow producers to learn from those signals."
Profit is the key to competition. Anyone who claims to favor competition but looks down at profit has no idea what he is talking about.


realclearpolitics.com
 
In a free market, a business that is complacent about costs learns that its prices are too high when it sees lower-cost competitors winning over its customers. The market -- actually, the consumer -- holds businesses accountable and keeps them honest. No "public option" is needed.

So does this mean I can go to a hospital a get a menu?

Man, great deals on chemo!
 
Heck you can't even get price quotes form a hospital. How can a consumer make an informed decision. Hopw can there be competition.
Are they having a special on $1 plastic bedpans for only $23.50?
 
Hey maybe a business opportunity a hospital price negoiator firm.
Get the best price from the hospitals for you customer, their prospective patient?

Take a % of what you save the customer.

Same for prescriptions and home medical appliances, like wheelchairs and such.

I wonder if capn Kirk is available for some commericals.
Pricelifeline.com
 
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To echo what others have said one does not shop around when needing medical care. If a person breaks their arm they do not drive from business (hospital) to business (hospital) comparing prices as one may if purchasing appliances or seeking home repairs.

The author writes, "Businesses don't know exactly what consumers want or the most efficient way to produce it until they are in the thick of the competitive hustle and bustle."

What consumers want? The "consumer" wants to get better. Hospitals are not hotels or vacation packages. Getting medical treatment is not an option.

One lady I saw interviewed on TV said her insurance company wouldn't pay for the ambulance because she didn't get prior approval. Prior approval? Are they nuts?

Are people expected to shop around before calling an ambulance? Compare costs and benefits while someone is dying?

The author asks, "By what method exactly will the officials know how to allocate resources? By what method will they know how much of what kind of health care people want?"

Eh, maybe ASK the people. Polling? A simple questionnaire that people fill out when leaving a hospital? A questionnaire attached to the census form?

The author writes, "And more important, by what method will they know how to produce that health care without wasting resources? ...In markets with good institutions, profit-seeking producers can get answers to these questions by observing prices and their own profits and losses in order to determine which uses of resources are more or less valuable to consumers."

Universal medical can determine efficiency better than any form of competition. If one hospital is treating 20 cancer patients per day and another hospital treating 25 patients at the same cost one simply observes the procedures employed at the latter to see if they can be utilized at other hospitals. Rather than having a 1000 Executive Directors and a 1000 operating room supervisors and a 1000 Chief Physicians each competing with their counterpart in other hospitals they would all be "linked" through the Universal Plan.

If the procedures at a hospital in California are more efficient than the procedures at a hospital in New York then the practices are shared. A comparison can easily be made IF all medical care is under one roof.

Remember the Human Genome Project?

"A key issue for the Human Genome Project is how to promote and encourage the rapid sharing of materials and data that are produced, especially information that has not yet been published or may never be published in its entirety. Such sharing is essential for progress toward the goals of the program and to avoid unnecessary duplication. It is also desirable to make the fruits of genome research available to the scientific community as a whole as soon as possible to expedite research in other areas. http://www.ornl.gov/sci/techresources/Human_Genome/publicat/hgn/v4n5/04share.shtml

That's the way medical procedures (costs and efficiency) should be shared and can be shared under a universal medical plan. Competition and innovation will naturally occur due to individual's preferences. People come up with ideas and try them.

We see that every day in business. Whether it's an office employee suggesting it would save time by moving the photo copier to a different location or a mechanic suggesting to his boss to purchase a special tool to save time effecting a repair it's doubtful the employee will receive monetary compensation for such suggestions. Nevertheless, ideas are tried and all the "little" ideas combine to make things more efficient.

Competition and profit do not belong in health care. Getting well is not optional.
 
To echo what others have said one does not shop around when needing medical care. If a person breaks their arm they do not drive from business (hospital) to business (hospital) comparing prices as one may if purchasing appliances or seeking home repairs.

The author writes, "Businesses don't know exactly what consumers want or the most efficient way to produce it until they are in the thick of the competitive hustle and bustle."

What consumers want? The "consumer" wants to get better. Hospitals are not hotels or vacation packages. Getting medical treatment is not an option.

One lady I saw interviewed on TV said her insurance company wouldn't pay for the ambulance because she didn't get prior approval. Prior approval? Are they nuts?

Are people expected to shop around before calling an ambulance? Compare costs and benefits while someone is dying?

The author asks, "By what method exactly will the officials know how to allocate resources? By what method will they know how much of what kind of health care people want?"

Eh, maybe ASK the people. Polling? A simple questionnaire that people fill out when leaving a hospital? A questionnaire attached to the census form?

The author writes, "And more important, by what method will they know how to produce that health care without wasting resources? ...In markets with good institutions, profit-seeking producers can get answers to these questions by observing prices and their own profits and losses in order to determine which uses of resources are more or less valuable to consumers."

Universal medical can determine efficiency better than any form of competition. If one hospital is treating 20 cancer patients per day and another hospital treating 25 patients at the same cost one simply observes the procedures employed at the latter to see if they can be utilized at other hospitals. Rather than having a 1000 Executive Directors and a 1000 operating room supervisors and a 1000 Chief Physicians each competing with their counterpart in other hospitals they would all be "linked" through the Universal Plan.

If the procedures at a hospital in California are more efficient than the procedures at a hospital in New York then the practices are shared. A comparison can easily be made IF all medical care is under one roof.

Remember the Human Genome Project?

"A key issue for the Human Genome Project is how to promote and encourage the rapid sharing of materials and data that are produced, especially information that has not yet been published or may never be published in its entirety. Such sharing is essential for progress toward the goals of the program and to avoid unnecessary duplication. It is also desirable to make the fruits of genome research available to the scientific community as a whole as soon as possible to expedite research in other areas. http://www.ornl.gov/sci/techresources/Human_Genome/publicat/hgn/v4n5/04share.shtml

That's the way medical procedures (costs and efficiency) should be shared and can be shared under a universal medical plan. Competition and innovation will naturally occur due to individual's preferences. People come up with ideas and try them.

We see that every day in business. Whether it's an office employee suggesting it would save time by moving the photo copier to a different location or a mechanic suggesting to his boss to purchase a special tool to save time effecting a repair it's doubtful the employee will receive monetary compensation for such suggestions. Nevertheless, ideas are tried and all the "little" ideas combine to make things more efficient.

Competition and profit do not belong in health care. Getting well is not optional.
Apple, you should watch Moyer's latest Journal segment!
 
Most hospitals have menus.
How else would anyone know what the cafeteria was serving.

Retard: his point is that hospitals aren't like restaurants. You don't get to shop around for the best deals. The normal free market competition that lets you hold gougers accountable by voting with your feet doesn't apply to hospitals. If you have a heart attack, you're rushed to the closest hospital for treatment to save your frikking life. You don't get to choose the one in the next city that's 10 percent cheaper because they have better management because you'll already be cold and dead by the time they get you there.

The same goes for insurance companies. They don't really compete against each other. They're usually regional, and in some parts of the country you don't even have a choice between more than just one insurance provider. And every insurance provider in the country falls under the umbrella of one of seven parent companies. Monopolies ≠ free market.
 
So what, dumbass?

So a) you're fucking retarded and b) do you ever actually attempt to have a conversation about any of this stuff or do you know you're retarded and avoid it at all costs to help avoid looking as retarded as you are?

Not to mention, this entire thread is about how much Obama supposedly doesn't understand. Then you turn right around and show us how you don't even understand what you're reading. HINT: IT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH FOOD.
 
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