Russia to annex Kherson Oblast

[moon]

Ukraine has had a legitimate democratic election by world standards, since 2013. And they overwhelmingly elected Zalensky.

The pro-Russian Ukrainians didn't take part, dumbass. Many of them were busy being shelled by Azov Nazis.

 

[Cypress]

The pro-Russian Ukrainians didn't take part, dumbass. Many of them were busy being shelled by Azov Nazis.

Why would the separatists in a part of Donbass get a vote?

They chose to be independent from Ukraine with the help of Russian armed forces..

Zalensky won 73 percent of the vote. That is a massive landslide, no matter how you try to word-smith it.

 

[moon]

Why would the separatists in a part of Donbass get a vote?

They chose to be independent from Ukraine with the help of Russian armed forces..

Zalensky won 73 percent of the vote. That is a massive landslide, no matter how you try to word-smith it.

What was the turnout and who counted the votes ?

 

[Cypress]

What was the turnout and who counted the votes ?

hundreds of independent election observers from Europe and Canada came to Ukraine to monitor the 2019 election, and much to the distress of you and your hero Putin, the election was deemed legitimate and fair by international standards.

The second place runner up was Poroshenko, with about 24 percent of the vote. Poroshenko was also fairly pro-western.

So that means over 95 percent of the vote in the Ukranian election went to pro-western candidates.

 

[anatta]

Why would the separatists in a part of Donbass get a vote?

They chose to be independent from Ukraine with the help of Russian armed forces..

Zalensky won 73 percent of the vote. That is a massive landslide, no matter how you try to word-smith it.

they are still part of Ukraine - there are civilians that were disenfranchised.
But oddly you make the point Donbas should be Russian -they dont want to be part of Kyiv
and Kyiv disenfranchised them

 

[anatta]

Even if I take your word for it sight unseen, what were they doing? Handing out rifles and ammunition? Coordinating the revolt by covert communications?

You have never provided a link to a reputable source proving that the Euromaiden revolution was hatched in a CIA office in Langley Virginia and coordinated on the ground by CIA agents.

Everyone here who was watching television in 2013 saw garden variety, grass roots Ukrainian citizens protesting a government they felt was illegitimate.

Ukraine has had a legitimate democratic election by world standards, since 2013. And they overwhelmingly elected Zalensky.

Putin had all the time in the world to sell the benefits of union and close collaboration with Russia to Ukrainians. His failure to do so is not the fault of Joe Biden or Barack Obama.

I never said anything about theh CIA.
it was the Obama State dept that undermined the Maidan and direct Obama policy of Russian reset.
What were they doing??? dont you recall the Nuland intercepted phone call?
They were fomenting a revolution, and controlling the regime change

 

[Cypress]

I never said anything about theh CIA.
it was the Obama State dept that undermined the Maidan and direct Obama policy of Russian reset.
What were they doing??? dont you recall the Nuland intercepted phone call?
They were fomenting a revolution, and controlling the regime change

So you have no proof from any reputable source that Euromaiden was a CIA coup, plotted, planned, and executed by American intelligence services.

 

[Cypress]

they are still part of Ukraine - there are civilians that were disenfranchised.
But oddly you make the point Donbas should be Russian -they dont want to be part of Kyiv
and Kyiv disenfranchised them

They declared themselves separate, independent republics, why would they also then demand to vote in Ukraine's elections? You are being openly contradictory.

If you want them to vote in Ukraine's elections, email their rebel government and demand they give up their independence and rejoin Ukraine.

The Russophile parties did extremely poorly in the 2019 Ukraine elections. Even the votes of the Lukhansk Republic wouldn't have changed the outcome. By far, the top two candidates receiving votes were pro-western: Zalensky and Poroshenko.

 

[Lightbringer]

The land you live on was historically Cherokee, Iroquois, Seminole, or Navajo.

The Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth hasn't existed for 600 years, and the Imperial Russian empire ended with the tsars. The Bolsheviks and the USSR recognized Ukraine as a culturally distinct republic within the Union of soviet socialist republics. The USSR demanded Ukraine be given it's own seat at the United Nations.

Republicans may not believe in self-determination, but most of the rest of humanity does.

Ah, so because the Bolsheviks said some shit it shall be? The Ukrainian SSR was just an administrative district in the old Soviet Union but that wasn't the Ukraine. It's not a real country...and never has been.

 

[dukkha]

They declared themselves separate, independent republics, why would they also then demand to vote in Ukraine's elections? You are being openly contradictory.

If you want them to vote in Ukraine's elections, email their rebel government and demand they give up their independence and rejoin Ukraine.

The Russophile parties did extremely poorly in the 2019 Ukraine elections. Even the votes of the Lukhansk Republic wouldn't have changed the outcome. By far, the top two candidates receiving votes were pro-western: Zalensky and Poroshenko.

2019? the damge of disenfranchisement started with the Maidan of 2014.
The players that did the damage to Ukrainian democracy were Americans on the ground
and also claims of NGOs interfering in the elections.
I've never found absolute proof of the later like I did with the former.
Further the fact the Maidan was manipulated and was the beginning of the real end of an independent Ukraine is becoming common foreign policy agreement among those of us like Glen Greenwald

Kyiv takes the position LNR & DNR are breakaways before the Russian invasion.
Kyiv refused to give Donbas any autonomy, and treated it the same as Lviv (ex).
Kyiv was the sole ultimate power- even in Donbas where many had Russian passports or at least
cultural and economic ties. Of course our cold warriors 2.0 wanted to keep Donbas for Kyiv's exclusive dominion, and crippling the east by war was a fine way to do it from their perspective

Kyiv's bullheaded refusal to grant any local autonomy brought the separatists to war
Federalizing the east would have given Russia absolutely no legit reason to invade
-FYI: note of interest

In the Donbas, Russia’s Newest Citizens Prepare to Vote
https://carnegiemoscow.org/commentary/85210

 

[dukkha]

So you have no proof from any reputable source that Euromaiden was a CIA coup, plotted, planned, and executed by American intelligence services.

best I can tell the operation was strictly State Dept.
Nuland and Kagan the ringleaders. McCain the useful idiot, Pyatt the overzealous diplomat type..

That doesn't mean a revolution wasn't going against the CIA - in fact it fits right in with their constant
Cold War gaming. The are the very definition of a unipolar mindset. Literally anything we do - including fomenting revolution is advantageous if it hurts Russia. They think in that simple pattern

So they could have very well been putting in back door advice to meddle in the Maidan

 

[Lightbringer]

best I can tell the operation was strictly State Dept.
Nuland and Kagan the ringleaders. McCain the useful idiot, Pyatt the overzealous diplomat type..

That doesn't mean a revolution wasn't going against the CIA - in fact it fits right in with their constant
Cold War gaming. The are the very definition of a unipolar mindset. Literally anything we do - including fomenting revolution is advantageous if it hurts Russia. They think in that simple pattern

So they could have very well been putting in back door advice to meddle in the Maidan

It was a Nato Op. Do you really believe Nuland was put in charge?

 

[dukkha]

It was a Nato Op. Do you really believe Nuland was put in charge?

I tend to thin k it was leftover State Dept arrogance from the Hillary years
( the Maidan was 2014 -Kerry was Sec of State- but Hillary set the meddling example with Libya)

at least that's all I can point to -but as mentioned it certainly dovetails nicely with Spook Inc

 

[Lightbringer]

I tend to thin k it was leftover State Dept arrogance from the Hillary years
( the Maidan was 2014 -Kerry was Sec of State- but Hillary set the meddling example with Libya)

at least that's all I can point to -but as mentioned it certainly dovetails nicely with Spook Inc

I tend to think the State Department are a bunch of little bitches.

 

[Cypress]

Ah, so because the Bolsheviks said some shit it shall be? The Ukrainian SSR was just an administrative district in the old Soviet Union but that wasn't the Ukraine. It's not a real country...and never has been.

^^ Kremlin stooge.

 

[cancel2 2022]

that's very damning of the Maidan. it's very detailed and I'll have to read thru it more carefully
~~

At night, all national TV channels of Ukraine were filming all that on the square. They were filming the episodes that would be very good for the USA, as the entire scenario had been agreed with Washington and Brussels. At first, all instructions were coming from the US Embassy in Ukraine.

"They were filming how Berkut fighters were beating students, children, but they did not show how the protesters were throwing rocks at Berkut soldiers, how they would set soldiers ablaze. On the basis of this footage that produced a bombshell effect, people started coming to Maidan. On December 1, a massacre occurred on Bankovaya Street. There were militants wielding chains, bats, Molotov cocktails and boulders. Militants started taking administrative buildings in Kiev. Nineteen administrative buildings were seized, the center of Kiev was seized too.

The capital was paralyzed. But Yanukovych was instructed not to touch the peaceful protesters, as they said. The West wanted to see the resistance growing. It was growing in waves, because Maidan did not have the support of the majority of the people. On January 19, militants attacked the Berkut fighters, who were defending the government quarter. Car tires were burning in the street, on European Square and Kreshchatik Street.

Maidan was ideologized, it was a Russophobian, Nazi Maidan that was rigidly following the direction against Russia. For Ukrainians, Russia is the enemy, "Glory to the nation, death to the enemy" - that was the directive. This hatred was infecting more and more people.



See more at https://english.pravda.ru/world/129095-ukraine_maidan_nazi_state/

Did you get to read it, it's very revealing.

 

[cancel2 2022]

TY. I'm sick of theUSA going around the world and getting into foreign civil wars and promoting regime chage
It's never good for us or the country we interfere with

It worked in Germany, Japan, Korea, Albania, Serbia and various other countries.

 

[Cypress]

best I can tell the operation was strictly State Dept.
Nuland and Kagan the ringleaders. McCain the useful idiot, Pyatt the overzealous diplomat type..

That doesn't mean a revolution wasn't going against the CIA - in fact it fits right in with their constant
Cold War gaming. The are the very definition of a unipolar mindset. Literally anything we do - including fomenting revolution is advantageous if it hurts Russia. They think in that simple pattern

So they could have very well been putting in back door advice to meddle in the Maidan

So still no link to any reputable source proving that Euromaiden was hatched, plotted, and executed by agencies of the United States government.

I watched the Ukranian protests on TV in 2014. Those people in the streets were Ukrainian citizens with genuine grievances, they were not State Department, CIA, or DoD employees

 

[dukkha]

So still no link to any reputable source proving that Euromaiden was hatched, plotted, and executed by agencies of the United States government.

I watched the Ukranian protests on TV in 2014. Those people in the streets were Ukrainian citizens with genuine grievances, they were not State Department, CIA, or DoD employees

so you didnt see the State and McCain and neocon Kagan (with Nuland) snd Pyatt on the ground encouraging the crowd

You also didnt hear the Nuland phone call trying to install the next government. You missed a lot

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...-exchange-on-ukraine-eu-idUSBREA1601G20140207
Nuland is heard telling U.S. Ambassador Geoffrey Pyatt that she doesn’t think Vitaly Klitschko, the boxer-turned-politician who is a main opposition leader, should be in a new government.

“So I don’t think Klitsch (Klitschko) should go into the government,” she said in the recording, which appeared to describe events that occurred in late January. “I don’t think it’s necessary. I don’t think it’s a good idea.”
U.S. officials, while declining to confirm the recording’s contents, did not dispute its authenticity.

“I did not say it was not authentic,” State Department spokeswoman Jen Psaki said at a news briefing.

 

[Cypress]

so you didnt see the State and McCain and neocon Kagan (with Nuland) snd Pyatt on the ground encouraging the crowd

You also didnt hear the Nuland phone call trying to install the next government. You missed a lot

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...-exchange-on-ukraine-eu-idUSBREA1601G20140207
Nuland is heard telling U.S. Ambassador Geoffrey Pyatt that she doesn’t think Vitaly Klitschko, the boxer-turned-politician who is a main opposition leader, should be in a new government.

“So I don’t think Klitsch (Klitschko) should go into the government,” she said in the recording, which appeared to describe events that occurred in late January. “I don’t think it’s necessary. I don’t think it’s a good idea.”
U.S. officials, while declining to confirm the recording’s contents, did not dispute its authenticity.

“I did not say it was not authentic,” State Department spokeswoman Jen Psaki said at a news briefing.

A couple of mid level State Department guys watching the protests? That's your proof of a vast and well planned American coup?

I was sympathetic to the protestors myself, especially when the government ordered snipers to open fire on them. Does that mean I was part of a coup plot?