Russia to annex Kherson Oblast

dukkha said:
ive explained this many times. NATO is a hostile military alliance. Expansion makes that alliance quicker and more lethal to attack. I get you say "they will never attack" but the very nature of NATO expansion is a redline for Russia
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Attacking a NATO country is a red line for NATO. So there's that.
NATO won't attack Russia, Russia won't attack a NATO country. But apparently Putin feels he can attack any country he wants that's not in NATO.
 
dukkha said:
ive explained this many times. NATO is a hostile military alliance.
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No, it's a defensive military alliance. It's only hostile to a country that attacks them first.
dukkha said:
Expansion makes that alliance quicker and more lethal to attack.
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That's the whole point of NATO... to make it quite lethal for another country to attack a NATO one.
dukkha said:
I get you say "they will never attack" but the very nature of NATO expansion is a redline for Russia
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Attacking a NATO country is a red line for NATO. So there's that.
NATO won't attack Russia, Russia won't attack a NATO country. But apparently Putin feels he can attack any country he wants that's not in NATO (and the U.S. has been equally guilty of that policy).
 
dukkha said:
ive explained this many times. NATO is a hostile military alliance. Expansion makes that alliance quicker and more lethal to attack. I get you say "they will never attack" but the very nature of NATO expansion is a redline for Russia
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Who gives a shit what Putin wants? He's proven himself to be a war criminal, a dictator, and utterly untrustworthy.

Putin had many years to use Russia's soft power to convince Ukrainians that joining Russia's CTSO eastern security bloc was in their best interest. CTSO member states Kazakhstan, Armenia, Belarus, Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan all decided to make common cause with Russia in the security and economic spheres.

It is not NATO's fault that Ukraine decided to pursue a relationship with NATO and EU rather than CTSO.

And given what we know now about Putin, it is perfectly rational for Eastern European nations to want to join NATO.
 
Cypress said:
Putin had many years to use Russia's soft power to convince Ukrainians that joining Russia's CTSO eastern security bloc was in their best interest.
.
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Yes- and Ukrainians elected a couple of pro-Russian presidents..............before the US-led coup which you deny took place.
You're entire anti-Russian campaign is based upon willful ignorance.


Haw, haw........................haw.
 
Cypress said:
Putin had many years to use Russia's soft power to convince Ukrainians that joining Russia's CTSO eastern security bloc was in their best interest.
.
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Yes- and Ukrainians elected a couple of pro-Russian presidents..............before the US-led coup which you deny took place.
Your entire anti-Russian campaign is based upon willful ignorance.


Haw, haw........................haw.
 
Here's something to consider- according to Sky News TV the prevalent opinion among Russians in Russia is that Russia and Ukraine are ' brother nations ' and that the conflict is as a result of Western interference in Ukrainian affairs designed to weaken Russia. As several US war advocates have said publicly that the US is engaged in ' degrading the Russian military ' they do have a point.
 
dukkha said:
your partisan premise that Trump would make NATO irrelevant doesnt square with Trump getting more money out of NATO partners. Solzenberg praised that

https://www.history.com/news/russia-georgia-war-military-nato
Georgia was moving further West, even joining the U.S.-led coalition fighting in the Iraq War in 2003. This process intensified after the election of pro-Western President Mikheil Saakashvili in 2004.

Georgia on the verge of joining NATO, but not yet subject to the organization’s collective defense agreement, Russia saw an opportunity to rein in its neighbor and demonstrate its military strength in the region.

Sakaashvili ordered his troops to capture the South Ossetian capital of Tskhinvali. Russia swiftly responded by moving its troops to the border and conducting air strikes on Georgian positions in South Ossetia as well as Abkhazia.

With the United States, Great Britain and NATO calling for a ceasefire, the conflict continued for five days, as Russia quickly took control of Tskhinvali and rolled its tanks and troops through Ossetia into Georgia, stopping only about 30 miles from Tbilisi, the Georgian capital.
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Hardly novel, the Soviets were the past masters at that as amply demonstrated by the invasions of Hungary and Czechoslovakia in 1956 and 1968.
 
dukkha
Georgia was moving further West, even joining the U.S.-led coalition fighting in the Iraq War in 2003. This process intensified after the election of pro-Western President Mikheil Saakashvili in 2004.
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It seemed to me that Saakashvili was certifiable. Like Zelensky, he wanted a NATO/Russian conflict for the sake of his own ass. Bozo Johnson too.
 
moon said:
Yes- and Ukrainians elected a couple of pro-Russian presidents..............before the US-led coup which you deny took place.
Your entire anti-Russian campaign is based upon willful ignorance.


Haw, haw........................haw.
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This is the year 2022, not the year 2011.

Putin, with your blessing, has ensured that the overwhelming majority of Ukranians will hate Russia with a burning passion for generations to come.
 
Cypress said:
Putin, with your blessing, has ensured that the overwhelming majority of Ukranians will hate Russia with a burning passion for generations to come.
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That's nothing novel for Ukrainian Nazis. As for ' the overwhelming majority ' - your malignant wishful thinking characterizes you very well.

You are, after all, a warmongering NATO mouthpiece.
 
moon said:
That's nothing novel for Ukrainian Nazis. As for ' the overwhelming majority ' - your malignant wishful thinking characterizes you very well.

You are, after all, a warmongering NATO mouthpiece.
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The country of Ukraine would have submitted to the Russian Invasion 150 days ago if there were a large minority or plurality of Ukranians who supported the Russian invasion.

Hitler walked right into Austria without firing a shot because many and perhaps most Austrians, supported union with Nazi Germany.

On the other hand, Ukraine, a second rate European country, has fought an invading world military superpower to a standstill for six months.
 
Cypress said:
The country of Ukraine would have submitted to the Russian Invasion 150 days ago if there were a large minority or plurality of Ukranians who supported the Russian invasion.

Hitler walked right into Austria without firing a shot because many and perhaps most Austrians, supported union with Nazi Germany.

On the other hand, Ukraine, a second rate European country, has fought an invading world military superpower to a standstill for six months.
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Being a ' Brother nation ' does complicate matters .
 
Cypress said:
If we invaded Canada and committed war crimes there, Canadians would hate us for generations, no matter how much culture and language we share.
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Americans and American sympathizers in Canada would not.

Give it up. You've got the war you wanted. Wait for its outcome.
 
moon said:
Americans and American sympathizers in Canada would not.

Give it up. You've got the war you wanted. Wait for its outcome.
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My family is Canadian. None of them or any of their friends would welcome an American invasion, bombing of Toronto, or war crimes on their soil, irrespective of our shared ground on culture and language.
 
Cypress said:
My family is Canadian. None of them or any of their friends would welcome an American invasion, bombing of Toronto, or war crimes on their soil, irrespective of our shared ground on culture and language.
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Next you'll be showing holiday snaps. Go away.
 
On 26 July 2017, Saakashvili (at the time staying in the US) was stripped of his Ukrainian citizenship by Petro Poroshenko, and became a stateless person.[22][23] On 29 May 2019, he returned to Ukraine after newly elected President Volodymyr Zelensky restored his citizenship.[24][25] On 1 October 2021, Saakashvili returned to Georgia after an eight-year absence, and called on his followers to march on the capital, Tbilisi.[26][27] He was arrested later on the same day in Tbilisi.[28] According to the investigation, Saakashvili entered the country secretly in the container of a sea cargo ship, in violation of the law.[29] President of Georgia Salome Zourabichvili stated that she will "never" pardon Saakashvili.[citation needed] Later Zourabichvili confirmed her first statement again,[citation needed] while Saakashvili announced a hunger strike that was joined by other members of his party.

On 10 October 2021, his personal doctor asked authorities to move him to hospital as he continued with his hunger strike since his arrest and his health condition had allegedly worsened.[30] Saakashvili ended the hunger strike after reaching agreement with authorities that they will transfer him to Gori Military Hospital for medical treatment. As of March 20, Saakashvili remains in No. 12 penitentiary facility in Rustavi.
 
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