Italian scientist reproduces Shroud of Turin

Anyone who needed an Italian scientist to tell them the shroud is a fake needs their head examined .. like those waiting to find Noah's Ark.
 
blackascoal said:
Anyone who needed an Italian scientist to tell them the shroud is a fake needs their head examined .. like those waiting to find Noah's Ark.
Click to expand...
From the OP link: "The Catholic Church does not claim the Shroud is authentic nor that it is a matter of faith, but says it should be a powerful reminder of Christ's passion."
 
bac, I agree, kind of like truthers. :pke:

But being able to show how it may have been produced is an important find to dispelling such myths.
 
Last edited:
Southern Man said:
From the OP link: "The Catholic Church does not claim the Shroud is authentic nor that it is a matter of faith, but says it should be a powerful reminder of Christ's passion."
Click to expand...

This pronouncement by the Catholic Church does not reflect the "thinking"/conditioning of many "believers" .. nor does it even reflect the thinking of many catholics.

It's like the struggle within the Catholic Church of wheteher to accept Noah's Ark as allegorical or as actual history.

The trap they find themselves in is that they've all been taught/conditioned to beleve that EVERYTHING taught in Scriptures is affirmed by God .. but science and REAL history have demonstrated that some of that bullshit isn't even remotely possible to be true. Religion isn't about truth or facts or history .. it's about faith, nothing more.

Ever found the bones of soldiers and horses, weapons, or chariots under the Red Sea? .. Nope, because Moses parting the Red Sea is a fairy-tale .. just as was Noah's Ark and "God's flood" was a fairy-tale .. just as the shroud is a fairy-tale .. just as seeing Mary's face in stale bread is a fairy-tale.

But history has shown .. slap God/Jesus on anything and the conditioned will sing its praises.
 
RStringfield said:
bac, I agree, kind of like truthers. :pke:

But being able to show how it may have been produced is an important find to dispelling such myths.
Click to expand...

In a more perfect world I would definately agree with you broither .. but showing the world Obama's birth certificate didn't diminsh the ire of the "believers" one iota.

In fact, although a different issue .. demonstrating the impossibilities of the official 9/11 story hasn't deterred believers from faith in that bullshit fairy-tale either. Truth also didn't work for Iraq, Vietnam, nor is it working for the issue of Afghanistan.

Cognitive dissonance vs truth = truth loses.
 
blackascoal said:
This pronouncement by the Catholic Church does not reflect the "thinking"/conditioning of many "believers" .. nor does it even reflect the thinking of many catholics.

It's like the struggle within the Catholic Church of wheteher to accept Noah's Ark as allegorical or as actual history.

The trap they find themselves in is that they've all been taught/conditioned to beleve that EVERYTHING taught in Scriptures is affirmed by God .. but science and REAL history have demonstrated that some of that bullshit isn't even remotely possible to be true. Religion isn't about truth or facts or history .. it's about faith, nothing more.

Ever found the bones of soldiers and horses, weapons, or chariots under the Red Sea? .. Nope, because Moses parting the Red Sea is a fairy-tale .. just as was Noah's Ark and "God's flood" was a fairy-tale .. just as the shroud is a fairy-tale .. just as seeing Mary's face in stale bread is a fairy-tale.

But history has shown .. slap God/Jesus on anything and the conditioned will sing its praises.
Click to expand...

Catholicism teachings are based on known facts and logic, not simply faith as you assert. The Scriptures don't identify this shroud, just a cloth, and one that is extremely unlikely to have survived history.

Remnants of Noah's Ark were reported by the historian Berosus about 300 BC.

Bones, iron and wood from the Red Sea in Moses's time would not have survived history, that doesn't mean the event didn't happen. In fact modern studies show that this miracle was quite plausible (discussion here).
 
Southern Man said:
Catholicism teachings are based on known facts and logic, not simply faith as you assert. The Scriptures don't identify this shroud, just a cloth, and one that is extremely unlikely to have survived history.

Remnants of Noah's Ark were reported by the historian Berosus about 300 BC.

Bones, iron and wood from the Red Sea in Moses's time would not have survived history, that doesn't mean the event didn't happen. In fact modern studies show that this miracle was quite plausible (discussion here).
Click to expand...

Not interested in thoughts of believers.

Anyone who believes the world was underwater for 40 days or 40 minutes is a moron and knows nothing about the history of civilizations that existed before, during, and after "the flood."

Perhaps God was just watching an advanced copy of "Waterworld", but the notion of a global flood and some guy building a boat that would carry all the animal species of the earth doesn't require investigation to determine its truth. Quite possibly the silliest myth ever invented by humans.

And why wouldn't relics of the "sae parting event" not have survived?

Are you aware of how many ancient relics have been found underwater?

They've found entire ancient cities underwater.
 
Last edited:
blackascoal said:
Not interested in thoughts of believers.

Anyone who believes the world was underwater for 40 days or 40 minutes is a moron and knows nothing about the history of civilizations that existed before, during, and after "the flood."

Perhaps God was just watching an advanced copy of "Waterworld", but the notion of a global flood and some guy building a boat that would carry all the animal species of the earth doesn't require investigation to determine its truth. Quite possibly the silliest myth ever invented by humans.

And why wouldn't relics of the "sae parting event" not have survived?

Are you aware of how many ancient relics have been found underwater?

They've found entire ancient cities underwater.
Click to expand...


One of the "facts" that always seem to be missing from those who want to believe in Noah's Ark is that there is not enough water (even melting the icecaps) to flood the entire planet.

Another would be the apparent survival of species unknown to men in the middleeast and of cultures that would not have had contact with Noah.
 
blackascoal said:
Anyone who needed an Italian scientist to tell them the shroud is a fake needs their head examined .. like those waiting to find Noah's Ark.
Click to expand...

Anyone who needs Galileo to tell them that objects fall at the same rate needs to have their head examined. So that's everyone between the time of his experiment and the time of Galileo.

Experiments and physical evidence are more important than thought experiments.
 
WinterBorn said:
One of the "facts" that always seem to be missing from those who want to believe in Noah's Ark is that there is not enough water (even melting the icecaps) to flood the entire planet.

Another would be the apparent survival of species unknown to men in the middleeast and of cultures that would not have had contact with Noah.
Click to expand...

But vaguely dinosaur-ish cave paintings in peru prove that humans walked with dinosaurs. Take that, skeptic.
 
Watermark said:
But vaguely dinosaur-ish cave paintings in peru prove that humans walked with dinosaurs. Take that, skeptic.
Click to expand...

"vaguely dinosaur-ish cave paintings " prove nothing other than the imagination of the artist.
 
WinterBorn said:
One of the "facts" that always seem to be missing from those who want to believe in Noah's Ark is that there is not enough water (even melting the icecaps) to flood the entire planet.

Another would be the apparent survival of species unknown to men in the middleeast and of cultures that would not have had contact with Noah.
Click to expand...

The story of Noah and his Ark was told the way all stories were told back then; Big, and grand, and unequaled by any previous tale. More than likely it was told during or shortly after a great flood (not one to destroy the world mind you but maybe something similar to Katrina) to reinforce faith amoung people, as they probably had little else BUT faith.
 
blackascoal said:
Not interested in thoughts of believers.

Anyone who believes the world was underwater for 40 days or 40 minutes is a moron and knows nothing about the history of civilizations that existed before, during, and after "the flood."

Perhaps God was just watching an advanced copy of "Waterworld", but the notion of a global flood and some guy building a boat that would carry all the animal species of the earth doesn't require investigation to determine its truth. Quite possibly the silliest myth ever invented by humans.

And why wouldn't relics of the "sae[sic] parting event" not have survived?

Are you aware of how many ancient relics have been found underwater?

They've found entire ancient cities underwater.
Click to expand...

The story of the ark was never meat to be a direct historical interpretation. http://www.catholic.org/encyclopedia/view.php?id=8506

If you had opened your mind a tiny sliver and read a portion of the link provided and had a basic education in physical science or chemistry you would have understood why such relics would not have survived. The likely route across the Red Sea is actually a saltwater marsh, that, due to certain conditions of tide and winds, can be traversed on foot. Tidal waters are simply not amenable to preservation of bones, iron and wood. There is simply no comparison with the preservation of stone artifacts in deep water.
 
WinterBorn said:
One of the "facts" that always seem to be missing from those who want to believe in Noah's Ark is that there is not enough water (even melting the icecaps) to flood the entire planet.

Another would be the apparent survival of species unknown to men in the middleeast and of cultures that would not have had contact with Noah.
Click to expand...

There are exactly one kazillion things wrong with the Noah's Ark fairy-tale .. not the least of which is re-populating the world from 8 people\ and the fact that we couldn't build a boat today that could accomodate two of every species or ensure that any species would survive just because you have two.

Additionally, religion is for the most part, just passed down mythology, and most of christianity comes from Mythraism.

Hundreds of different cultures and religious beliefs and myths have a flood event .. just as they have a resurrection event told long before Jesus .. like Hercules.

People looking for fact in religion are silly.
 
blackascoal said:
There are exactly one kazillion things wrong with the Noah's Ark fairy-tale .. not the least of which is re-populating the world from 8 people\ and the fact that we couldn't build a boat today that could accomodate two of every species or ensure that any species would survive just because you have two.

Additionally, religion is for the most part, just passed down mythology, and most of christianity comes from Mythraism.

Hundreds of different cultures and religious beliefs and myths have a flood event .. just as they have a resurrection event told long before Jesus .. like Hercules.

People looking for fact in religion are silly.
Click to expand...

bac, it was actually 7 of each species, which helps the re-population but hinders the making a boat capable of handling them all.
 
Southern Man said:
Yet that's what you have done by insisting that the folks that you are arguing with view the story of Noah as direct historical interpretation. Catholics don't.
Click to expand...

What he has done, is the same as I have done, and that is to ridicule those who insist that the bible is a literal history of the world. Those who demand that their views be taken into account in public schools, who demand that their views be reflected in our laws, and those who demand that their view is absolutely correct (without any evidence) fall into this same subset that I enjoy heaping with scorn.
BAC seems to feel the same way as I do.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top