What it feels like to be a Libertarian

[Mott the Hoople]

classic evasion of any intent for personal responsibility.
ZOMG, Libertarians are anarchists because they don't want people governed!!!!!!

what's it like to distrust people and freedom so much that you demand people be controlled by government?

Exactly! Thank you! You've clearly demonstrated my point. Libertarians operate under the false premis that Goverment is not essential to a well ordered to society and then turn around and want us to trust them with running the Government. Not bloody likely!

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

I vote for me and SF to be Dictatorial leaders of the US for 12 months at which time we will return you to your regularly scheduled government

Agreed... like the Sprint Firefighters... we will show the idiots in DC just how easy it is to get things done when you cut through all the bullshit... to start with....

Old tax code 67000 pages
New tax code one page

 

[Socrtease]

Agreed... like the Sprint Firefighters... we will show the idiots in DC just how easy it is to get things done when you cut through all the bullshit... to start with....

Old tax code 67000 pages
New tax code one page

Imagine the printing costs we would save alone. And all those IRS agents off the payrolls.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

Libertarians are teenage virgins who've grown up used to rejection.

Markets don't work, what a masingil

That was not only a very accurate description Topper but has excellent literary style. One can only imagine what the effort must have cost you.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Exactly! Thank you! You've clearly demonstrated my point. Libertarians operate under the false premis that Goverment is not essential to a well ordered to society and then turn around and want us to trust them with running the Government. Not bloody likely!

This is complete bullshit... libertarians do NOT think the government is not necessary. They just believe it is not necessary to be as involved as it is. Note... had the idiots in DC not designed the Fair Lending Act, not removed Glass Steagall and not kept interest rates artificially low, we would not be in the mess we are today. It was government intervention that sparked this mess. yes, after that many others joined in and deserve some of the blame, but it was the politicians that began this mess.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

Damn man, first you say the Republican Party needs to drop its social conservatives and then you say it needs to drop its libertarian elements. You might as well say you think the party should cease to exist.

No. I think I've stated that clearly in the past that there are three major problems (constituents) that the Republican party needs to address. The Supply Side crowd, The Southern Reactionaries and The Libertarian faction. That is, you have a coalition of a bankrupt economic system allied to a 16th century social structure combined with unworkable politcal theory.

 

[cawacko]

Exactly! Thank you! You've clearly demonstrated my point. Libertarians operate under the false premis that Goverment is not essential to a well ordered to society and then turn around and want us to trust them with running the Government. Not bloody likely!

That is 100% false. Anacharists don't believe government is necessary. I would love to see anything you can find from a Libertarian group claiming they feel government isn't necessary.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

Well, it would be better for the party and stuff. Clearly he cares deeply about the survival of the republican party and all his suggestions should be followed.

Actually I do. You forget I was a republican (albeit currently an alientated one). Be that as it may. I bet I've contributed more to the Republican party and have voted for more Republicans than either of you have.

 

[Socrtease]

That is 100% false. Anacharists don't believe government is necessary. I would love to see anything you can find from a Libertarian group claiming they feel government isn't necessary.

For a lefty, minimal government=no government. Without regulations for EVERYTHING we do, and ways to extract a pound of flesh out of our labor, it looks like anarchy to a strict interventionalist.

 

[cawacko]

No. I think I've stated that clearly in the past that there are three major problems (constituents) that the Republican party needs to address. The Supply Side crowd, The Southern Reactionaries and The Libertarian faction. That is, you have a coalition of a bankrupt economic system allied to a 16th century social structure combined with unworkable politcal theory.

Exactly, that's the whole party. It's like someone saying the Democrats need to address the Unions, Feiminist groups, Gays, minorities, women, trial lawyers, academics, hollywood etc. other than that they are fine.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Imagine the printing costs we would save alone. And all those IRS agents off the payrolls.

The IRS website would be easy to run as well... two sentences...

"If you are too stooooopid to figure out your taxes under this system, do us all a favor and remove yourself from the gene pool. Thank you and have a nice day!"

 

[Socrtease]

The IRS website would be easy to run as well... two sentences...

"If you are too stooooopid to figure out your taxes under this system, do us all a favor and remove yourself from the gene pool. Thank you and have a nice day!"

We could get Topper to write it. He is good at telling people how stoopid they are.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

This is complete bullshit... libertarians do NOT think the government is not necessary. They just believe it is not necessary to be as involved as it is. Note... had the idiots in DC not designed the Fair Lending Act, not removed Glass Steagall and not kept interest rates artificially low, we would not be in the mess we are today. It was government intervention that sparked this mess. yes, after that many others joined in and deserve some of the blame, but it was the politicians that began this mess.

Oh what complete rubbish. Like unmitigated unregulated greed had nothing to do with the economic meltdown of 2008. Watermark is right, when reality does not fit with Libertarian theory, they reject reality. No rational person wants excessive government intervention in their lives but when a political theory calls for a degree of reductionism that renders Government inept and inaffective then who really wants to trust those people with running our government? It becomes, as I've said, a self fulfilling prophecy for bad government and that's what most informed people see about Libertarianism. It's also the credibility gap Libertarians need to span before anyone will take them serious.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

Exactly, that's the whole party. It's like someone saying the Democrats need to address the Unions, Feiminist groups, Gays, minorities, women, trial lawyers, academics, hollywood etc. other than that they are fine.

Actually they do and they did and that is my point. It is the disproportionate influence of those factions within the Republican coalition that is causing them their problems.

Democrats have had similiar problems with the certain unpopular factions having a disproporionate influence that have cost them elections too.

Right now it's the Republicans turn to take that swing on the politcal pendulum.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Oh what complete rubbish. Like unmitigated unregulated greed had nothing to do with the economic meltdown of 2008. Watermark is right, when reality does not fit with Libertarian theory, they reject reality. No rational person wants excessive government intervention in their lives but when a political theory calls for a degree of reductionism that renders Government inept and inaffective then who really wants to trust those people with running our government? It becomes, as I've said, a self fulfilling prophecy for bad government and that's what most informed people see about Libertarianism.

Tell me Mott... what part of that did you not comprehend. I said it BEGAN due to the acts of politicians. I then added that AFTER that fact others shared the blame in what happened. That includes the lenders, borrowers and Wall Street as well as Fannie and Freddie etc... I never stated that greed had nothing to due with it. That is simply your strawman.

You are correct, no rational person wants excessive government intervention. Which is precisely the position a Libertarian takes.

You are again putting forth the false premise that Libertarians want to reduce regulations to the point the government is ineffective. In that you are 100% wrong. It is complete bullshit that your are pulling from your ass.

Tell me Mott... is the Tax Code efficient? Or is it a large mass of ineffective bullshit, put forth by the idiots in the two parties? You bet your ass I want to get rid of that and create a system that is fair, progressive and something EVERYONE can understand.

That is just ONE area I could reduce regulation and INCREASE efficiency in the government.

You want health care reform? Good, so do I... but trying to implement a system in which we mimic current systems that are already set up for failure is NOT reform. That is pure ignorance. You want health care costs reduced? then go after what is causing the increases in costs...

$500 billion in inefficiencies that Obama says he can clean up in Medicaid... GREAT... START there.... we don't need a massive health care overhaul to fix that. This is not to imply that we should stop after doing this, we should obviously continue to look for ways to reduce costs and then ensure that insurance companies are showing lower premiums when those costs come down.

 

[SmarterthanYou]

Oh what complete rubbish. Like unmitigated unregulated greed had nothing to do with the economic meltdown of 2008. Watermark is right, when reality does not fit with Libertarian theory, they reject reality. No rational person wants excessive government intervention in their lives but when a political theory calls for a degree of reductionism that renders Government inept and inaffective then who really wants to trust those people with running our government? It becomes, as I've said, a self fulfilling prophecy for bad government and that's what most informed people see about Libertarianism. It's also the credibility gap Libertarians need to span before anyone will take them serious.

first off, you're just totally fucking wrong about your views on Libertarianism

secondly, you're just insane for siding with Watermark.

thirdly, if you haven't noticed it lately over the last few decades, the more the government GROWS due to you libs/dems and cons/republicans demanding more farking rules/regulations/legislation to 'control' things, the worse the governmental issue gets.

I'm sure that's too much for you to see, like not seeing the forest for the trees.

 

[Sammy Jankis]

STY just jizzed in mott's face.

 

[Cypress]

Exactly, that's the whole party. It's like someone saying the Democrats need to address the Unions, Feiminist groups, Gays, minorities, women, trial lawyers, academics, hollywood etc. other than that they are fine.

Cawacko, I've never met a real lefty that is embarrased of unions, academics, lawyers, or hollywood actors. What's embarrassing about that? I admire unions, academics, and the legal profession, broadly speaking. I think you've been listening to too much Glenn Beck.

it's patently obvious the remaining dead ender republicans that have an IQ over 80 are embarrassed of the religious right, of the southern red state nit wits, and the crazy teabagging fringe extremists. But, that's republican's problem. The left doesn't have that problem of being embarrassed on major parts of their base.

 

[cawacko]

Cawacko, I've never met a real lefty that is embarrased of unions, academics, lawyers, or hollywood actors. What's embarrassing about that? I admire unions, academics, and the legal profession, broadly speaking. I think you've been listening to too much Glenn Beck.

it's patently obvious the remaining dead ender republicans that have an IQ over 80 are embarrassed of the religious right, of the southern red state nit wits, and the crazy teabagging fringe extremists. But, that's republican's problem. The left doesn't have that problem of being embarrassed on major parts of their base.

I have never listened to Glen Beck's show once. Mott said the Republicans needed to address three groups of Republican constituents. Well the constiuents (sp) he listed make up like 95% of the party. He might as well have said the Republicans need to address who makes up their party. Thus my analogy of saying the Democrat equivalent of needing to address all the various groups I listed, which make up most the Democratic Party, instead of just saying the Democratic Party itself.

 

[Cypress]

You're missing the point. The point we are always right and you piss us off.

Nice retort!

I get it. Trust me. Free marketeers are acutely embarrased by the orgy of greed and malfeasance that proved once and for all that markets can't be trusted to self-police, and that relatively strict and equitable government regulation is the only way a capitalist economy can function, unless one is into economic darwinism.

Obviously Libertarians broadly feel the need to re-invent themselves as enthusiastic and competent regulators. No offense, but 50 years of Libertarianism can't be swept under the carpet in a sudden pique of embarrassment. Ron Paul ran as a libertarian presidential candidate in 88 on a promise of eliminating every department of the federal government, except for defense and justice. And he's never disavowed those statements, although he did try to spin his way out of them more recently. That means, he thought every regulatory agency in the entire federal government should be abolished.

Listen man, don't take it personally, but every lefty has spent the last two decades being told by libertarians to unleash the markets and to eliminate or drastically pare down regulation. It's really not believable at all to now accept the premise the libertarians are, and always have been, passionate regulators and vigilant guardians against unfettered free markets.