Reality check for Gunners

Taichiliberal said:
Just to let folks know that New York wasn't just blowing smoke about illegal guns making there way to NYC due to problems with current gun laws in other states:


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33211530/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/
Click to expand...

Yeah, that's realistic. That's the same thing as going down to your local police station and asking for a application, then saying, "man I sure hope you guys don't drug test. I NEVER pass those!'.

BUT, they would still be breaking the law selling them if they cannot pass a backround check. HOWEVER that is no indication that guns make it from one state or another.
 
Really, I don't understand what the big deal with people owning guns is. It's our constitutional right to own them, and over 99% of gun owners are law abiding citizens.
 
Lowaicue said:
So are most of the people who get killed by guns.
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No not so much. While you'd be right say that a majority are, a large portion are killed in gang wars or criminals killing other criminals. Ending the war on drugs would go a long way towards curbing violence in this country, rather than trying to focus foolishly on gun.
 
Originally Posted by Taichiliberal
Just to let folks know that New York wasn't just blowing smoke about illegal guns making there way to NYC due to problems with current gun laws in other states:


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33211530...me_and_courts/
Click to expand...

CaptBillyTheKid said:
Yeah, that's realistic. That's the same thing as going down to your local police station and asking for a application, then saying, "man I sure hope you guys don't drug test. I NEVER pass those!'.

BUT, they would still be breaking the law selling them if they cannot pass a backround check. HOWEVER that is no indication that guns make it from one state or another.
Click to expand...

Sorry to disappoint you, but the NYC police commissioner has PROVEN using foresnic evidence that guns used in crimes in New York were purchased in states that had lax gun laws.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_...un_central_for_citys_worst_thugs_yet_aga.html

What this latest information shows is that the gunner fallacy of how secure gun shows are against criminals purchasing weapons.
 
CaptBillyTheKid said:
Really, I don't understand what the big deal with people owning guns is. It's our constitutional right to own them, and over 99% of gun owners are law abiding citizens.
Click to expand...

Actually, it's not the ownership that is the big deal, it's the State and Federal regulation that has everyone up in arms.

There are those who want total banning of weapons for citizenry not in law enforcement, military, national guard or private security. Then there are those who want absolutely no gov't regulation as to what type or how many weapons they own, where they can carry them and to whom they can sell them to.

In the middle are folk like me, who pretty much is happy with anyone who passes a background check and can afford one, and with the legal process that can challenge excessive oppressive gun laws or excessive lax gun laws.

And the beat goes on.
 
Taichiliberal said:
Sorry to disappoint you, but the NYC police commissioner has PROVEN using foresnic evidence that guns used in crimes in New York were purchased in states that had lax gun laws.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_...un_central_for_citys_worst_thugs_yet_aga.html

What this latest information shows is that the gunner fallacy of how secure gun shows are against criminals purchasing weapons.
Click to expand...

Are you aware that if you look long enough and have the desire to do so, you can trace them back to the manufacturers?? :woot: :woot:
 
Originally Posted by Taichiliberal
Sorry to disappoint you, but the NYC police commissioner has PROVEN using foresnic evidence that guns used in crimes in New York were purchased in states that had lax gun laws.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_c...s_yet_aga.html

What this latest information shows is that the gunner fallacy of how secure gun shows are against criminals purchasing weapons.
Click to expand...

USFREEDOM911 said:
Are you aware that if you look long enough and have the desire to do so, you can trace them back to the manufacturers?? :woot: :woot:
Click to expand...

And how does that moot point change the FACT as to what the information I sourced revealed? Or the conclusion of that information presented?
 
Taichiliberal said:
Actually, it's not the ownership that is the big deal, it's the State and Federal regulation that has everyone up in arms.

There are those who want total banning of weapons for citizenry not in law enforcement, military, national guard or private security. Then there are those who want absolutely no gov't regulation as to what type or how many weapons they own, where they can carry them and to whom they can sell them to.

In the middle are folk like me, who pretty much is happy with anyone who passes a background check and can afford one, and with the legal process that can challenge excessive oppressive gun laws or excessive lax gun laws.

And the beat goes on.
Click to expand...

Actually it's neither the ownership nor State regulations that is the problem.
It is the immature, brainless mindset that says:

'I gaht mah rahts an' mah rahts ur ta own a gurn. So ahm gonna own a gurn an ahm gonna be jes lahk Jahn Wayne, an there ain't nuthin ye can do te staap me.'

And apart from shooting every gun owner you will stop neither the guns, the murders or the stupidity.
 
Exactly what lax gun laws are being exploited?

All 50 states require checks via the same federal agency.

What is it that other states are not doing?
 
Ok, I read the article and its about that nonsense "gun show loophole".

There is no gun show loophole. There is a difference between licenced gun dealer and a private citizen selling his personal gun. It is the difference between running a car dealership and selling your personal car.


There is no way background checks can be run by private citizens, nor do we want them to be.
 
WinterBorn said:
Ok, I read the article and its about that nonsense "gun show loophole". Really? Then what, the video is fake?

There is no gun show loophole. There is a difference between licenced gun dealer and a private citizen selling his personal gun. It is the difference between running a car dealership and selling your personal car.

Wrong. The loophole was clearly demonstrated in the video.....if you hit the right dealer at a gun show, he can pull stunts that will give guns to those who do not have the proper credentials, and NOT be readily accountable to authorities about it. That is against the law. Period.


There is no way background checks can be run by private citizens, nor do we want them to be.
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No one was asking them to....the point of contention was that 19 of the 30 gun show dealers DID NOT follow the simple rules for specific credentials from the buyers. Bottom line: they cheated (whether for sheer profit or some ideology is up to question)....and that dishonesty may put weapons into the hands of criminals...weapons that cannot be traced to them as owners.
 
Originally Posted by Taichiliberal
Actually, it's not the ownership that is the big deal, it's the State and Federal regulation that has everyone up in arms.

There are those who want total banning of weapons for citizenry not in law enforcement, military, national guard or private security. Then there are those who want absolutely no gov't regulation as to what type or how many weapons they own, where they can carry them and to whom they can sell them to.

In the middle are folk like me, who pretty much is happy with anyone who passes a background check and can afford one, and with the legal process that can challenge excessive oppressive gun laws or excessive lax gun laws.

And the beat goes on.

Lowaicue said:
Actually it's neither the ownership nor State regulations that is the problem.
It is the immature, brainless mindset that says:

'I gaht mah rahts an' mah rahts ur ta own a gurn. So ahm gonna own a gurn an ahm gonna be jes lahk Jahn Wayne, an there ain't nuthin ye can do te staap me.'

And apart from shooting every gun owner you will stop neither the guns, the murders or the stupidity.
Click to expand...

You're wrong to characterize all gun owners as slack jawed yokels.
There is nothing wrong with owning a weapon for home protection. The problem is that you have an industry that makes serious profit in producing and selling weapons....and therefore they must push a constant climate of fear to stimulate sales. Yes, there is crime in America, which is why people own guns. What the manufacturers do is consistently push the spectre of a fascist gov't just around the bend that will subjugate everyone as soon as all the guns are taken away.

Americans live in an environment of checks & balances to keep everyone honest (or at least we try to). For better or worse, guns are a means to insure to some degree that honesty. Unfortunately, many want to treat the situation like it's still the frontier West or turn of the century East...and they want the next best thing to military issue weapons. That is an extreme, while others want total elimination of guns from the general populace, with only military and police (and private security) having weapons. That is another extreme....for in a nation of diverse cultures and races competing for limited resources and opportunities, there is always going to be those that throw the rule book out the window.

What I always find fascinating is that gunners always point to "liberals" as a major threat to their freedom....while all but ignoring the conservative corporate entities that are consistently making themselves immune from public criticism or recourse while taking public money. Oh well, the beat goes on.
 
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