Happy red wave day!

Dutch Uncle said:
I'm happy. Are you happy, goat? Did you break your hip or was it broken for you?

What do you think about laws requiring sexual predators to have signs in their yard?

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A few problems with that.

1. He's an America with rights who has served his time.
2. The sign will not work. See Megan's Law.
3. It invites vigilantism.
 
AProudLefty said:
A few problems with that.

1. He's an America with rights who has served his time.
2. The sign will not work. See Megan's Law.
3. It invites vigilantism.
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1. Agreed. In the cases of psychos, sexual predators and other ex-cons with mental issues, a psych eval and treatment should be considered as part of their sentence.
2. What about Megan's Law. Are you saying it doesn't work?
3. A good point. Vigilantes are criminals and should be prosecuted as such.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
1. Agreed. In the cases of psychos, sexual predators and other ex-cons with mental issues, a psych eval and treatment should be considered as part of their sentence.
2. What about Megan's Law. Are you saying it doesn't work?
3. A good point. Vigilantes are criminals and should be prosecuted as such.
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2. Megan's mother and the neighbors knew the rapist was in the neighborhood. Thus proving the Megan's Law useless. Also the re-offense is one of the lowest recidivism.

3. Yes exactly. And it would be loss-loss for the state. If someone was killed in the residence that wasn't the "predator", the state will be sued. If the house is set on fire, whoever owns it, be it the predator or his/her parent or someone else, they'll collect the insurance then sue the state to collect more $$$.

So they didn't think this one through. :)
 
AProudLefty said:
2. Megan's mother and the neighbors knew the rapist was in the neighborhood. Thus proving the Megan's Law useless. Also the re-offense is one of the lowest recidivism.

3. Yes exactly. And it would be loss-loss for the state. If someone was killed in the residence that wasn't the "predator", the state will be sued. If the house is set on fire, whoever owns it, be it the predator or his/her parent or someone else, they'll collect the insurance then sue the state to collect more $$$.

So they didn't think this one through. :)
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2. I don't see where the parents knew a two-time pedo was living across the street: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Megan_Kanka . As the link notes, the therapist believed the pedo would commit the crime again.

3. Even if the predator was the only one killed, it's murder. I'm not a lawyer but am familiar with enough of them that I know laws can be written to minimize state/county/city legal exposure.

While a lot is made about violent psychos, the fact remains most mentally ill people are either harmless or a greater danger to themselves. If the US invested more into mental health research to solve the problems of the majority, the problems of the minority of violent psychos would most likely be resolved also.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
2. I don't see where the parents knew a two-time pedo was living across the street: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Megan_Kanka . As the link notes, the therapist believed the pedo would commit the crime again.

3. Even if the predator was the only one killed, it's murder. I'm not a lawyer but am familiar with enough of them that I know laws can be written to minimize state/county/city legal exposure.

While a lot is made about violent psychos, the fact remains most mentally ill people are either harmless or a greater danger to themselves. If the US invested more into mental health research to solve the problems of the majority, the problems of the minority of violent psychos would most likely be resolved also.
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2. The parents of Megan Kanka, a 7-year-old girl whose murder gave rise to Megan’s Law, had heard years earlier that a convicted child molester was living across the street, according to interviews with neighbors and a published report Monday.

That means Megan’s Law is based on a flawed premise _ that if only the Kankas had known a convicted sex offender lived on their street, they might have been able to save their daughter, the New Jersey Law Journal reported Monday.

``The ironic thing is Megan’s Law doesn’t really apply to this case because the whole neighborhood did know″ that Joseph Cifelli was a convicted sex offender, Fred Ervin Jr. told The Associated Press Monday night.

https://apnews.com/article/50072c266d3155131cf3bd3fd9cd2b5a

Also it was a murder. By that logic, they should have murderers, kidnappers, home invaders, grand thief auto, drunk drivers, blah blah blah register to keep the neighborhoods safe.

3. While you're more than likely correct, the problem is with the definition of a "sexual predator". What does it even mean? It could mean anything.
 
AProudLefty said:
2. The parents of Megan Kanka, a 7-year-old girl whose murder gave rise to Megan’s Law, had heard years earlier that a convicted child molester was living across the street, according to interviews with neighbors and a published report Monday.

That means Megan’s Law is based on a flawed premise _ that if only the Kankas had known a convicted sex offender lived on their street, they might have been able to save their daughter, the New Jersey Law Journal reported Monday.

``The ironic thing is Megan’s Law doesn’t really apply to this case because the whole neighborhood did know″ that Joseph Cifelli was a convicted sex offender, Fred Ervin Jr. told The Associated Press Monday night.

https://apnews.com/article/50072c266d3155131cf3bd3fd9cd2b5a

Also it was a murder. By that logic, they should have murderers, kidnappers, home invaders, grand thief auto, drunk drivers, blah blah blah register to keep the neighborhoods safe.

3. While you're more than likely correct, the problem is with the definition of a "sexual predator". What does it even mean? It could mean anything.
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2. So a sign for all violent ex-cons? Rumors are not the same as fact. I heard a rumor that members of JPP are violent psychos, but without official word, what could be done? A rumor is just gossip.

3. In this case, a child rapist, but any violent sexual offender would be included. Statutory rape is a different issue, especially when both partners are consensual and in high school with one being over 18.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
2. So a sign for all violent ex-cons? Rumors are not the same as fact. I heard a rumor that members of JPP are violent psychos, but without official word, what could be done? A rumor is just gossip.

3. In this case, a child rapist, but any violent sexual offender would be included. Statutory rape is a different issue, especially when both partners are consensual and in high school with one being over 18.
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2. Pretty odd to hurt the mother after such a tragedy by creating rumors.

3. So it would be rapists or worse. The lower level sex offenders are not even that violent. Also some don't even have victims!!! It makes no sense.
 
AProudLefty said:
2. Pretty odd to hurt the mother after such a tragedy by creating rumors.

3. So it would be rapists or worse. The lower level sex offenders are not even that violent. Also some don't even have victims!!! It makes no sense.
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2. Sorry, I don't understand.

3. Violent offenders. Bill Clinton was a sexual predator. Same for Trump. Even though both are probably guilty of statutory rape, it's not violent rape...unless they knew the 15-17 year old was being drugged or forced against her will to become a sex slave.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
2. Sorry, I don't understand.

3. Violent offenders. Bill Clinton was a sexual predator. Same for Trump. Even though both are probably guilty of statutory rape, it's not violent rape...unless they knew the 15-17 year old was being drugged or forced against her will to become a sex slave.
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I took your statement to mean that there were rumors that the mother and some neighbors knew of that sicko.
 
AProudLefty said:
I took your statement to mean that there were rumors that the mother and some neighbors knew of that sicko.
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Sorry for the unclear statement. What I meant was, that even if people in the neighborhood had heard rumors about a sexual predator or ex-convict, that it's just gossip without an official statement.

Even if the parents heard such a rumor, what could/would they do? Obviously caution their children to stay away from the offender but that gets into an area where kids think the old lady living in the dilapidated house is a witch. This, in turn, gets into the vigilantism problem you mentioned.

Rumors and gossip are not fact. Most intelligent adults will consider it at face value, but there is nothing to be done.

An alternative solution is restricting offenders from being within a certain range of kids or interactions with kids. Even then, it gets into an enforcement issue.

A better route, IMO, is the mental health route since it goes beyond the rare instances of child rapist/murderers to cover suicides, other violent crimes, Trumpers/political extremists, mass shooters and other problems which all have mental health links.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Sorry for the unclear statement. What I meant was, that even if people in the neighborhood had heard rumors about a sexual predator or ex-convict, that it's just gossip without an official statement.
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Well that information can be checked at the local Sheriff office.

Even if the parents heard such a rumor, what could/would they do?
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Precisely the point!!!!

Obviously caution their children to stay away from the offender but that gets into an area where kids think the old lady living in the dilapidated house is a witch. This, in turn, gets into the vigilantism problem you mentioned.
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They are always warned to stay away from strangers anyway. :laugh:

Rumors and gossip are not fact. Most intelligent adults will consider it at face value, but there is nothing to be done.
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Right. Like I said, it can easily be confirmed at the Sheriff office.

An alternative solution is restricting offenders from being within a certain range of kids or interactions with kids. Even then, it gets into an enforcement issue.
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That is not possible. They tried that in Florida and failed.

And yes it will get into an enforcement issue. They are not on probation or parole. So they are basically free to wander around.

A better route, IMO, is the mental health route since it goes beyond the rare instances of child rapist/murderers to cover suicides, other violent crimes, Trumpers/political extremists, mass shooters and other problems which all have mental health links.
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When it comes to violent offenders, I would agree. The rest of sex offenders are pretty harmless.
 
AProudLefty said:
Well that information can be checked at the local Sheriff office.
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When it comes to violent offenders, I would agree. The rest of sex offenders are pretty harmless.
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Part of Megan's Law that the Sheriff will release information on all and any convicts in the area?

A two-time child rapist should be considered a violent offender.
 
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