Michael Moore admits that his film is a strawman
- Thread starter Timshel
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blackascoal
The Force is With Me
Good argument .. but I don't believe that the opinions expressed by Moore or the student are all that inconsistent. Corporatism IS capitialism.
Capitalism typically refers to an economic and social system in which the means of production (also known as capital) are privately controlled; labor, goods and capital are traded in a market; profits are distributed to owners or invested in new technologies and industries; and wages are paid to labor.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism
Capitalism : an economic system characterized by private or corporate ownership of capital goods, by investments that are determined by private decision, and by prices, production, and the distribution of goods that are determined mainly by competition in a free market.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/capitalism
Absolutely nothing the corporations have been doing violates those definitions of capitalism. There is nothing in any definition of capitalism that indicates fairness, equity, patriotism, or compassion for workers .. that's SOCIALISM my brother.
Capitalism only cares about the bottom line and dividends to stock holders .. and that is exactly what corporations are doing.
Regardless of the semantics .. we exist in a plutocracy.
We don't even know who the enemy is.
We think it's each other .. or people thousands of miles from our shores who are trying to exist on peanuts.
A disingenuous thread title. He and the student were almost totally in agreement, the terminology used by you is the straw man. Both Moore and the student agreed upon who the culprit is. Capitolism is what the Right likes to say we have now and Moore is showing the myth. That it is Corporatism only points out the falsehood of the Right using that terminology.
Corporatism does not GIVE power to government, it STEALS power from the government by purchasing it.
Once again I'll say that the day the Supreme Court gave corporations the rights of an individual and ruled money to be free speech, was the beginning of the end for this country.
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Did you notice the guys shirt. They did not agree. The kid was a libertarian.
Corporatism is capitalism as much as corporatism is democracy. Moore just fails to understand that. Just as how Moore wants democracy to work and it turns into the distorted monster we have, the true defenders of capitalism (definitely not the GOP) don't intend this marriage of state and industry. It's exactly what they are against.
Corporatism is capitalism as much as corporatism is democracy. Moore just fails to understand that. Just as how Moore wants democracy to work and it turns into the distorted monster we have, the true defenders of capitalism (definitely not the GOP) don't intend this marriage of state and industry. It's exactly what they are against.
Here is a better image of the same shirt.
http://www.zazzle.com/enjoy_capitalism_tshirt-235966018657453218
Enjoy Capitalism. Joke on the coke logo. I have one of the creators Che skull t shirts which reads Communism Kills.
http://www.zazzle.com/enjoy_capitalism_tshirt-235966018657453218
Enjoy Capitalism. Joke on the coke logo. I have one of the creators Che skull t shirts which reads Communism Kills.
Taichiliberal
Shaken, not stirred!
You do have a penchant for misleading subject titles of the threads you create.
So Michael Moore admits that the name of the film should have been corporatism - a love story! Then he goes on to explain why corporatism isn't working properly, thus corrupting what capitalism is supposed to be about in this country. Since the two are joined at the hip, his explanation stands.
Sorry neocons, but you just can't blow the man down!
Cancel 2016.2
The Almighty
that is because he is a friggin weeble...
FUCK THE POLICE
911 EVERY DAY
Corporatism is making boards of all the various industries and forcing them to work together for the good of the nation. Not causing as little damage that conservatives did as possible to come to fruition. Damo is just ignorant.
And that means that Capitalism = Corporatism how?
First you are wrong, Corporatism is the principles, doctrine, or system of corporative organization of a political unit, as a city or state.
Second what you describe is fascism, not corporatism.
FUCK THE POLICE
911 EVERY DAY
Corporatism was the economic philosophy of fascism. Fascist Italy was a corporatist state.
Except it isn't. Corporatism is a political state acting as a corporation would, not a political state directing the corporation to produce specifically what the government wants them to (as happened in fascism.) Your fundamental disconnect is in the vast ignorance that you don't even know exists within the gaping holes of your knowledge.
You'll understand when you get older...
FUCK THE POLICE
911 EVERY DAY
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporatism
Corporatism is a system of economic, political, and social organization where corporate groups such as business, ethnic, farmer, labour, military, patronage, or religious groups are joined together into a single governing body in which the different groups are mandated to negotiate with each other to establish policies in the interest of the multiple groups within the body.[1] Corporatism views society as being alike to an organic body in which each corporate group is viewed as a necessary organ for society to function properly.[2]
....
In Italy, corporatism became influential amongst Italian nationalists. The Charter of Carnaro gained much popularity as the prototype of a 'corporative state', having displayed much within its tenets as a guild system combining the concepts of autonomy & authority in a special synthesis. This appealed to Hegelian thinkers such as Mussolini who were looking for a new alternative to popular socialist & syndicalist stances which was also a progressive system of governing labor and still a new way of relating to political governance as a whole.
If you'll note, the corporations join together to make the governing body (as I said). It is not the same thing as a government directing corporations to, say, stop making spindles and to start using slave labor to make bullets for the war effort. They are not the same thing. While it may have been influential, it was distorted by fascism into what I have described, it became something other than corporatism.
Mostly because in Italy, and in Germany, the government wasn't made up of the corporations making decisions for the benefit of corporate citizens or "groups" which are necessary for society to function properly....
What's misleading? The title of Moore's film is misleading. He builds up a strawman of capitalism/free markets and that's about all he can blow down.
Obfuscate
Powered By: Capitalism
Read Adam Smith, Milton Friedman or any of the other prominent Capitalists and you'll know it's the opposite of Corporatism. One of the main reasons they don't want Government involvemnet in the economy is because it will lead to Corporatism. As it has in the U.S.
Taichiliberal
Shaken, not stirred!
That doesn't make sense, as it is corporations that continually try to eradicate gov't oversite, which is suppose to insure true competition that this the mainstay of capitalism ( i.e., American anti-trust laws). Capitalism does not survive under monopolies and dynasties beyond a certain point.
Taichiliberal
Shaken, not stirred!
You given no new insight or explanation...all you've done is repeat yourself. I've already addressed this erroneous statement of yours, so I don't have to repeat myself. Repetition does not a truism make.
Minister of Truth
Practically Perfect
Most lobbying for regulations in the US is spearheaded by large corporations, because they know they can afford to put up with them, while potential competitors cannot. That is classic corporatism right there.
You don't know what you are talking about. Adam Smith argued against the regulations that protected mercantilism, which is pretty much corporatism. Adam Smith understood that truly coercive monopolies require government regulation to limit competition.
The great majority of regulations are not and were not enacted with any intent to protect capitalism or competition. FDR believed excessive competition was to blame for the depression and created many cartels through his regulatory policies.