Scientific Evidence of God

Superfreak said:
except that you have not provided scientific evidence of God. You stated in your original post that species will discard anything that does not have a purpose. For most species this is going to hold true. But not for humans. The difference is our cognitive ability. We CARE about HOW things work and WHY. Most other species care about survival, caring for their young etc... they don't care (at least not the we know of) about WHY things work or HOW they work. Early man exhibited the same behavior. Caring only about survival, protecting their own etc...

It was when man first started to wonder about WHY and HOW things worked that religion took hold. 'miracles' and 'God(s)' were used to explain things we did not understand at the time. We still use the words 'supernatural' and 'miracle' to explain things that we don't understand.

I am agnostic... so I am not saying that God does/does not exist, but science most certainly has not provided any evidence one way or the other.
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For ALL observed forms of life, they exhibit characteristic behaviors for a reason and purpose. This is how science can delineate between 'normal' and 'abnormal' behavior.

You speculate that man first started to wonder about why and how, and you presume this preceded spirituality, but this has not been established. It is a chicken and egg dichotomy. In your view, it simply HAS to be that way, to make your preconceived faiths work out. In actuality, spirituality could have very well been the catalyst for human wonder. Something most certainly separates mankind from other similar creatures, and Darwin's theories are inadequate to explain this. Where did our humanity evolve from? Again, we are drawn to the interesting observation that humans are the most advanced species, the only ones to civilize, etc., AND they are the only creatures who worship. I think it is imperative we look at the possibility this is not a coincidence, and there is a connection. Spirituality is precisely what separates us from chimps and other primates.
 
Dixie said:
I am not actually discussing ANY specific religious belief. I have already stated, religion is merely mankind attempting to understand something it can't comprehend. Organized religion is simply a testament to human spirituality, they aren't one in the same, religion is the result of spirituality.

I think most people who believe in a higher power, do not believe that power is gender specific. That is a human characteristic, again, one man has applied to something he can't comprehend. We call God "He" because of our culture, not because we believe God has testicles.

I think there are other aspects about the gods we worship, which have been created by man in an attempt to explain what is incomprehensible. The notion that God cares if you worship him... Why would an omnipotent God care... about ANYTHING? God certainly wouldn't require acceptance or praise, those are things humans desire, God would have no need for them.

When it comes to intelligent design, we can set all of this aside, because ID doesn't necessarily mean "by a God." In arguments on origin of life and ID theory, I often mention the 'Ancient Aliens' theory. This is the belief that an ancient alien civilization visited Earth, and began the processes of life. Yeah, it's out there, but the point is, it's an ID theory that doesn't include God. So, it is possible to believe we were the product of intelligent design, without belief in a God. Designed by intelligence doesn't mean Designed by God.

I've left a lot of room for criticism of organized religion, it certainly has had its drawbacks through history. But my point was not about religion, it was about human spirituality, an attribute man has always had, and has never been without. From a purely scientific standpoint, the pathology suggests there is a vital reason humans worship.
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explain to me the SCIENTIFIC reasoning behind humans worshiping.
 
Dixie said:
For ALL observed forms of life, they exhibit characteristic behaviors for a reason and purpose. This is how science can delineate between 'normal' and 'abnormal' behavior.

You speculate that man first started to wonder about why and how, and you presume this preceded spirituality, but this has not been established. It is a chicken and egg dichotomy. In your view, it simply HAS to be that way, to make your preconceived faiths work out. In actuality, spirituality could have very well been the catalyst for human wonder. Something most certainly separates mankind from other similar creatures, and Darwin's theories are inadequate to explain this. Where did our humanity evolve from? Again, we are drawn to the interesting observation that humans are the most advanced species, the only ones to civilize, etc., AND they are the only creatures who worship. I think it is imperative we look at the possibility this is not a coincidence, and there is a connection. Spirituality is precisely what separates us from chimps and other primates.
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Again Dixie, NONE of the above is scientific evidence of God's existence as you claim. The ability to question where we came from, the cognitive abilities shown by humans, being spiritual, etc.... none of them are evidence of God's existence. That dear Dixie is precisely why they call it FAITH.

Spirituality is not what separates us from other primates as many humans are not spiritual in nature. We have the ability to LEARN to be spiritual. It is not something we are born with... it is something we are TAUGHT. It is our cognitive ability and our desire to find out the HOW and WHY things work that leads us to spirituality. Religions/spirituality cannot have proceeded our questioning of the HOW and WHY for this reason.
 
Superfreak said:
Again Dixie, NONE of the above is scientific evidence of God's existence as you claim. The ability to question where we came from, the cognitive abilities shown by humans, being spiritual, etc.... none of them are evidence of God's existence. That dear Dixie is precisely why they call it FAITH.

Spirituality is not what separates us from other primates as many humans are not spiritual in nature. We have the ability to LEARN to be spiritual. It is not something we are born with... it is something we are TAUGHT. It is our cognitive ability and our desire to find out the HOW and WHY things work that leads us to spirituality. Religions/spirituality cannot have proceeded our questioning of the HOW and WHY for this reason.
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Well, it's like I explained, proving the actual physical existence of a God? How is that done? I can't do that, no one can, we don't know how, even if there is a way. What does "exist" mean? I don't think anyone of spiritual faith will argue that God "exists" in a physical state, and that is how science would measure one. Therefore, proving existence of a God with science is impossible, as far as we know.

The rest of what you are saying is your opinion, and not what science has observed. Studies of human civilizations from the oldest one ever discovered, shows signs of spirituality in man. How can you presume spirituality didn't precede man's ability to learn? I'll tell you how you can presume this, because you have to! It's the only way to support your Atheist ideology.
 
A lot of ancient civilizations were also Gaiaists and Pagans, belief systems which are frowned upon by modern-day Christians.

Don't think we don't know your agenda here, Dixie.
 
MOe said:
explain to me the SCIENTIFIC reasoning behind humans worshiping.
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Well, I don't have to explain the reasoning to realize there is a profound connection between civilized man and spirituality. I could post the billions of personal testimonials from individuals who credit everything in their life to their faith, the behavior certainly seems to have been conducive to their well being. But religious beliefs vary among individuals, and personal faith levels are different for all, so it is difficult to pinpoint a single common reasoning to explain the phenomenon. Still, it does exist in man, has always existed in some form, and I believe it plays a key role in making us vastly different from other animals in our same genetic 'family', because nothing else can explain the difference. We are far more advanced than chimps, yet share a remarkable amount of genetics... why would that be the case? Is it any coincidence we worship and have spirituality, and chimps don't?
 
Onceler said:
A lot of ancient civilizations were also Gaiaists and Pagans, belief systems which are frowned upon by modern-day Christians.

Don't think we don't know your agenda here, Dixie.
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Nothing in my presentation is biased toward Christian beliefs, and I have not endorsed ANY religious viewpoint. My argument rests on mankind's profound connection with spirituality, not religious dogma.
 
Dixie said:
Well, it's like I explained, proving the actual physical existence of a God? How is that done? I can't do that, no one can, we don't know how, even if there is a way. What does "exist" mean? I don't think anyone of spiritual faith will argue that God "exists" in a physical state, and that is how science would measure one. Therefore, proving existence of a God with science is impossible, as far as we know.

The rest of what you are saying is your opinion, and not what science has observed. Studies of human civilizations from the oldest one ever discovered, shows signs of spirituality in man. How can you presume spirituality didn't precede man's ability to learn? I'll tell you how you can presume this, because you have to! It's the only way to support your Atheist ideology.
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ok... your original premise was that you had scientific evidence of God's existence. Obviously no one can prove or disprove Gods existence based on the science we know today. So what was the purpose of your original post then?

Next... as I stated moron... I am AGNOSTIC... not atheist. Learn the difference.

Finally, it is not opinion. How can one have 'spirituality' WITHOUT thinking about the HOW and WHY first? Did man magically become spiritual? Whether you mean spiritual in the 'one with nature' sense or with in the 'I believe in God(s)' sense... both require thought prior to conception. Both require man to have created them...
 
Superfreak said:
ok... your original premise was that you had scientific evidence of God's existence. Obviously no one can prove or disprove Gods existence based on the science we know today. So what was the purpose of your original post then?

Next... as I stated moron... I am AGNOSTIC... not atheist. Learn the difference.

Finally, it is not opinion. How can one have 'spirituality' WITHOUT thinking about the HOW and WHY first? Did man magically become spiritual? Whether you mean spiritual in the 'one with nature' sense or with in the 'I believe in God(s)' sense... both require thought prior to conception. Both require man to have created them...
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No, the thread title is "Scientific Evidence of God" not the existence. I can't present evidence of existence for something that isn't known to exist in the physical world. The purpose of the thread is to present scientific evidence which suggests a power higher than self. I believe I have presented such evidence, and it is absolutely scientific. You want me to "prove God" or "prove God exists" and no one can do that, and if we could, there would be no need for faith. But the evidence that something is present, something does guide our humanity, something does inspire us and compel us in a spiritual sense, that evidence is there in black and white.
 
Dixie said:
No, the thread title is "Scientific Evidence of God" not the existence. I can't present evidence of existence for something that isn't known to exist in the physical world. The purpose of the thread is to present scientific evidence which suggests a power higher than self. I believe I have presented such evidence, and it is absolutely scientific. You want me to "prove God" or "prove God exists" and no one can do that, and if we could, there would be no need for faith. But the evidence that something is present, something does guide our humanity, something does inspire us and compel us in a spiritual sense, that evidence is there in black and white.
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Your evidence is that every culture or civilization has worshipped a higher power.

But every culture and civilization thought the sun moved around the earth, until science proved otherwise.

Every culture and civilization thought a god moved the sun across the sky until science proved otherwise.

Every culture and civilization thought diseases were caused by gods or spirits, until science discovered the germ.

Just because the behavior is there does not mean there is a solid reason for it.
 
WinterBorn said:
Your evidence is that every culture or civilization has worshipped a higher power.

But every culture and civilization thought the sun moved around the earth, until science proved otherwise.

Every culture and civilization thought a god moved the sun across the sky until science proved otherwise.

Every culture and civilization thought diseases were caused by gods or spirits, until science discovered the germ.

Just because the behavior is there does not mean there is a solid reason for it.
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Just because the behavior is not only there, but prevalent in our species, and has been there for all of known civilization, means it certainly has a fundamental purpose to our species, otherwise, it wouldn't exist. There is no example of any animal behavior which is predominately characteristic, yet completely without purpose and reason. In ALL cases, there is a fundamental reason for the behavior.
 
Dixie said:
Just because the behavior is not only there, but prevalent in our species, and has been there for all of known civilization, means it certainly has a fundamental purpose to our species, otherwise, it wouldn't exist. There is no example of any animal behavior which is predominately characteristic, yet completely without purpose and reason. In ALL cases, there is a fundamental reason for the behavior.
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And the reason for the belief in a higher power could be argued to be a way to answer questions they could not find answers for in any other way. That would include disease, lightning, wind, rain, clouds, stars ect.

In many cases religion has allowed those who were not the strongest or the fittest to lead, and to control the populations.

These two answers fit the question every bit as well as the existence of God does.
 
WinterBorn said:
And the reason for the belief in a higher power could be argued to be a way to answer questions they could not find answers for in any other way. That would include disease, lightning, wind, rain, clouds, stars ect.

In many cases religion has allowed those who were not the strongest or the fittest to lead, and to control the populations.

These two answers fit the question every bit as well as the existence of God does.
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Again, no one is attempting to prove God "exists".

You could argue all kinds of reasons for why humans worship, but you are speculating based on preconceived ideas. Why would man want or need to find answers and understand? What makes you so certain this attribute came before spiritual belief? Maybe it was the other way around, maybe spiritual belief fostered man's inquisitiveness and caused him to need to find answers?

You hit on another point as well, "religion has allowed those who were not the strongest or the fittest to lead." I can't count the number of times I have heard someone confess, they couldn't have done something without the help of God. If nothing more than a purely psychological aspect, it would appear God is indeed real to these people. In any event, human spirituality plays too important a role in humankind, to presume it is some trivial superstition without meaning or purpose.
 
Dixie said:
Gosh Onzies, I don't even see the same words there, much less the same meaning.
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Because you're fucking retarded.

You can't have evidence of God if God doesn't exist. The "exist" is implied because it's necessary for "Scientific Evidence."

You're not fooling anyone. You're clearly retarded.
 
Dixie said:
Gosh Onzies, I don't even see the same words there, much less the same meaning.
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Ya know, this reminds me of way back - wait, I mean a couple of days ago - when you claimed you never said the science was "indisputable"; all you REALLY said was that the science was "irrefutable."

It all depends on what the meaning of "is" is, ya know?
 
Onceler said:
Ya know, this reminds me of way back - wait, I mean a couple of days ago - when you claimed you never said the science was "indisputable"; all you REALLY said was that the science was "irrefutable."

It all depends on what the meaning of "is" is, ya know?
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Vg nyy qrcraqf ba jung gur zrnavat bs "vf" vf, ln xabj?
 
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