Obama: U.S. must reverse course with Indians
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apple0154
MEOW
What do you think a person looks like going for a job interview after living in a car? What motivation does a person have who hasn't eaten properly in years?
The problem is similar to people on welfare. By the time government help arrives, along with the amount of help, people have lost everything. Their motivation has gone. They are so far in the hole they can't see the light.
While I don't agree with just throwing money at the problem the problem is the amount of money is just enough to keep them alive. Schooling, clothes, proper food....the problem is not the help. The problem is there is not enough help at once.
It's the same thing with unemployment. Different government, same approach. Usually there is a waiting period. For many people the loss of a couple of pay checks puts them behind. Then they are continually behind, be it their rent or utilities. Scrambling to juggle bills.
Yea, that makes for a great frame of mind when job hunting.
People don't want to depend on hand outs. Healthy people want to get ahead. Healthy people want to improve their lives but instead of the government being there to help in an appreciable way they wait for people to fall down before helping and then the help is barely enough to keep them alive. That is the problem.
We see the same BS with the mortgage problem. Instead of the government jumping in there and helping renegotiate mortgage rates they'll wait and wait as people let their home fall into disrepair as the people know they are going to lose it anyway. The people give up. In the end the bank repossess a damaged home missing anything from the heating system to kitchen cabinets to plumbing, all having been sold for scrap.
But God forbid we help people. We can't give them money, you know. It will make them lazy. Let's wait until their life is in the garbage can and then offer them a welfare check.
That is the problem.
do not bet on it, my father was born on the Coleville reservation in northern washington
also, dna testing should be used to determine is someone is a member of a native american group...something that most native american groups resist
Taichiliberal
Shaken, not stirred!
Yep, as I said BOTH parties have done a number on the Native peoples of this country...and when Leonard Peltier is let out of prison, then we'll know that at least someone is making a step in the right direction. Until then, it's all hot air.
Good Luck
New member
Who is apologizing for Bush? My statement was meant to be an attack on the kinds of "help" we usually do receive from the feds if the guy in the WH bothers to throw NAs a bone. As is typical of most modern republicans, Bush barely gave reservation problems the time of day. While not a good track record if one is trying to gain political points from the dronebots, IMO being left alone is better than being "helped".
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New member
Intervention level assistance is what you are talking about here, and, yes we can partially agree there. The system, as set up, waits until people are, frankly, ready to fall into the trap. A healthy coyote is going to be suspicious of a baited trap. He'll sniff it over closely, and any detection of metal or human, move around it. A hungry one will take the chance - and get killed.
But that is part of what I have been saying. The federal assistance system is a trap - ESPECIALLY the assistance they send to reservations. It waits until people are beyond self help, and then provides assistance packaged in a manner as to limit their ability to get back out. They wait until people are helpless, and then KEEPS them that way.
There was a program in the early 60s, under LBJ, that built 280 new homes in Browning on the Blackfoot reservation. And guess who those homes went to. NAs working their butts off on local ranches had jobs - so they were left in the two-bit hovels the new homes were supposed to replace. Get it? Having a job, even a low pay job, actually DISQUALIFIED people for a chance at the new homes. Having no job - even if it was because the person was too frigging drunk on a daily basis to hold a job - got them brand new, fully furnished homes. Within a single year over half of the homes had been destroyed by the residents, most of the furnishings sold off to buy booze. Again, the feds screwed over NAs actually trying to make something of themselves, and assisted in providing fodder for those who label all reservation NAs as lazy, good for nothing drunks. Well, yea, we have our share of lazy good for nothing drunks. But I point the finger of shame as much on the federal government and their bullshit programs as I do the people who let themselves becomes lazy good for nothing drunks.
The Browning housing project (where Dad got the wood pieces for out Christmas those two years - as well as a semi-decent supply of firewood) is another example of how the assistance programs actively discourage people from trying to make it on their own. They are LITERALLY, ACTIVELY, and DELIBERATELY designed to make people dependent on them, thereby guaranteeing a lot of votes each election, as every time, no matter who is running, someone, somewhere comes out with the "if you vote republican, they'll take away your programs."
So when one president ignores us for the most part, I don't give a rip about whether he gives us a nod or not, and might actually sigh in relief. And when another President tells us he's going to change things, I don't exactly cheer.
Taichiliberal
Shaken, not stirred!
Okay, I get your point...although the Shrub was a little more than just negligent...his administration was actively preventing any small improvement there was by the evidence given.
I made the statement because my experience has been with the South, Georgia in particular. I, of course, don't deny bigotry exists elsewhere. Because it exists in one place, however, doesn't justify its existence in another.
I think it was you who justified the display of the Stars and Bars as a sign of pride even though it represents slavery and death to an entire segment of our society. We won't mention you advocating killing Liberals. Maybe you don't see it because you're insensitive to it.
What I was referring to isn't as much religious or ethnic history as it is racial although the former was not uncommon when the occasion arose. I stopped going to community functions and dropped out of the VFW as a result. It was also one of the reasons we left.
DamnYankee
Loyal to the end
I think you think wrong. It must be your bigotry rearing itself again.
If it wasn't you that I thought said those things, I apologize, If it was you, wear it like a man.
Regarding my bigotry "rearing itself again", "please explain".
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.......and where were the bush administration and Congress when Jack Abramoff, Ralph Reed, and Grover Norquist were bestowing their "benevolence" on the Native population?
.......and where were the bush administration and Congress when Jack Abramoff, Ralph Reed, and Grover Norquist were bestowing their "benevolence" on the Native population?
Taichiliberal
Shaken, not stirred!
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New member
Same place the previous administration was when Abramoff & co., as well as others, were pulling the same kinds of shit for the same reasons.
Or are you guys unaware that he started his shit back in 1994?
1994, just in time for the missing oversight of a GOP Congress that would never cross the paths of Norquist, Reed, and Abramoff, or their lobbying. I believe a certain Congressman named Nye (R-Ohio) was convicted and imprisoned for his dealings with them.
As for the "others" "pulling the same shit" as you mentioned, I have seen no instance of any case such as the Abramoff case coming under the scrutiny of the GOP Congress.
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Good Luck
New member
Same kinds of shit, not the same shit. As in lobbyists overcharging (not illegal), representing opposing clients simultaneously (not illegal if done carefully), etc. etc. etc.
And if you believe for one microsecond that every illegal "campaign contribution" is noticed and prosecuted by ANY congressional oversight committee, I have some swamp land you may be interested in.
Abramoff was probably no dirtier than average, just dumber than average.
DamnYankee
Loyal to the end
You just did.
Taichiliberal
Shaken, not stirred!
Essentially, belme made a point that you're trying to side step. No one is saying that Slick Willy was clean...but the dirt done by all who sailed with the Shrub & company is evident if you do the proper research.
Put it this way, you can't scream bloody murder about the injustices done to Native people by gov't for years, and then say something absurd like the Shrub "left you alone"....alluding to negligence in general. That, as Belme points out, is just not true.
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New member
Let's put it this way:
People like Abramhoff were out scamming people. He got CAUGHT scamming NA tribes. Others have scammed NA tribes, and were either not been caught out, or it was not deemed worthy of wide publication. Undoubtedly Abramhoff & company scammed a whole bunch of others in addition to native American tribes. But those, too, were not worthy of high publicity because they lacked the political fodder found in the NA cases. I highly doubt Abramhoof specifically chose NA tribes as victims out of some sinister intent toward NAs. It was opportunity because the tribes wanted something from government and he was able to sell the tribes a bill of goods in their unbridled efforts to gain their desires.
Since people have been scamming tribes since some dough heads sold Manhattan for a chest of cheesy beads, this particular "lack" of federal "protection" is meaningless to me. It has NOTHING to do with what I refer to when I mention federal government interference, (I mean "help") and how it affects Native Americans. When I say Bush pretty much left us alone, it means Bush did not push a bunch new federal policies, nor did he make any specific efforts to withdraw any federal policies. In short, he left us alone with regard to policy.
When the experience of federal assistance has repeatedly been it is not worth the price, being left alone is the better option.
It does not mean I am implying by ANY stretch that Bush was some do-gooder for leaving us alone. It simply means that when it comes to federal policies aimed at Native Americans, being left alone is better than being made a bunch of costly promises.