From the Dean of Harvard Medical

NigelTufnel said:
Yes. I don't think it is too much to ask. Identifying a problem is easy. Solving one isn't.
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You realize this was an op-ed article in the journal right? One that is limited on the amount of space it takes in the paper?

Besides, you just ignore anything that doesn't fit what you have been brainwashed to believe anyway... so why should anyone bother providing people like you with alternative ideas? Other than to watch you stamp your feet like a petulant child saying 'no no no... that isn't what moveon.moron told me to believe so it can't possibly work'
 
Superfreak said:
You realize this was an op-ed article in the journal right? One that is limited on the amount of space it takes in the paper?

Besides, you just ignore anything that doesn't fit what you have been brainwashed to believe anyway... so why should anyone bother providing people like you with alternative ideas? Other than to watch you stamp your feet like a petulant child saying 'no no no... that isn't what moveon.moron told me to believe so it can't possibly work'
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This coming from guy that was upset that someone didn't include an opposing viewpoint in an op-ed article in the Boston Globe about the Fairness Doctrine, what with the limits on the amount of space it takes in the paper and all, is quite interesting.

And no, I don't ignore anything that doesn't fit what I believe. I've posted information on you precious tort reform solution and guess what, it does next to nothing to control costs. Same thing with the bill introduced by the House Republicans.

Controlling costs is very very difficult to do without pissing of scores of powerful interest groups. It's no wonder no one is coming up with legitimate cost control measures.
 
Market magic works to keep every other nation in the world's healthcare costs below ours, why shouldn't it work for America? Clearly, since our nation has the most market magic in it, and it has the lowest costs, so the solution is to introduce MORE market magic.
 
SmarterThanYou said:
well thats pretty fucking backwards. shouldn't one address cost controls first, and THEN when you know how much you're going to pay, finance it?
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Controlling costs means controlling profits as part of controlling costs, any chance 40 GOP Senators would climb aboard? Ever?
 
This is a complete clusterfuck and FRAUD on the American public. I argued yesterday that the current proposals do NOTHING to reduce costs, and Mott along with his pinhead contingent, literally lined up to bash me for that point, now today, Mott agrees... oh yeah, they aren't doing anything to cut cost!

I still wonder what they are going to do when 45% of the doctors in America do as they claim they will, and LEAVE the medical profession, once this debacle goes into effect? Talk about some fancy spinning math... Suddenly, not only will we be told an additional 30 million Americans are going to have access to health care without putting a strain on availability, but we will have 45% fewer doctors to see them... and STILL... by Liberal Miracle (I guess), we will have more access to more affordable better quality health care! It really takes complete suspension of reality to believe that line of shit.

One more time... The current bills being considered, do NOT address reducing cost. They simply change who is paying the bill, namely, from the consumers to the taxpayers. The overall cost will most certainly increase, because we are dealing with human beings.... I'll explain for the slow...

As usual, liberals fail to account for human nature. It is the Achilles heel to liberalism, they simply do not consider that we don't live in a perfect world and things don't always go as planned, people don't always respond the way we would like. It would be wonderful if we could all pool our resources into one big pot, and say... okay, if anyone has a medical need, we can take care of them with the fund... but here is what happens... people get greedy, people take advantage of the system, people cheat, people lie, people commit fraud, people abuse the privileges.

Right now, if you want to go to the doctor, it costs you some money... If you have insurance, it may only cost $25 copay, or whatever... but there is some monetary sacrifice you must make if you want to go to a doctor. When this boondoggle passes, and we offer free government funded health care for every American, how many people who wouldn't have normally bothered with going to a doctor, are now going to take advantage of it because it is free? My guess is MILLIONS! You'll have every welfare crack head in the projects, filling every waiting room in the country to get what they feel they are owed, whether they are actually sick or not, because it's fucking free! Now it's not REALLY free, we the taxpayers are paying regular price for it, remember the cost isn't going down. But you can't just open the damn candy store up and let people help themselves, it's a sure way to put yourself out of business.
 
Right now, if you want to go to the doctor, it costs you some money... If you have insurance, it may only cost $25 copay, or whatever... but there is some monetary sacrifice you must make if you want to go to a doctor. When this boondoggle passes, and we offer free government funded health care for every American, how many people who wouldn't have normally bothered with going to a doctor, are now going to take advantage of it because it is free? My guess is MILLIONS
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People generally don't like going to the doctor and aren't going to go do it just for the hell of it. There would be no plausible benefit. The real problem we see in America today are people PUTTING OFF treatment THEY NEED because of medical costs.

This problem of going to the doctor too often exists nowhere but in the imagination of conservatives. Conservatives, who have a very elegant theory of the economy, that just happens to not work in the real world.
 
But you can't just open the damn candy store up and let people help themselves, it's a sure way to put yourself out of business.
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Yes, because chemo is like candy. This is why, because we have free police service, people just call the police down to their house 24/7.
 
Child: Mr, that chemo would make me SOOOO happy!
Storekeeper: Chemo? That'll be 100,000 dollars, kiddo.
Child: :( Imma get the GOVERNMENT!
Government: Here's the 100k to get junior here his Chemo.
CHild: YAYAYAYAYA!


Off in the distance, a conservative stares, shaking his head. What has happened to his country?
 
Watermark said:
45% of doctors aren't going to quit their job and, presumably, work at McDonald's. The 45% who say they will are full of shit.
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Not to mention, that poll was from Investor's Business Daily, which is notorious for sloppy work. Those are the people who ran that editorial saying Hawking would be dead if he had to be subjected to the British NHS.
 
By the way, Dixie, this particular "boondoggle" has nothing to do with offering free government-funded healthcare to every American. You said that right after the sentence saying that currently you have to pay a copay, which wont exist under the plan... which is just so ignorant of what the plan actually does it boggles the mind.

Dixie - people who buy the public option will still have to pay copays. And it's not free unless they're destitute and qualify for some huge tax credit.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
No, they know how to controll cost. You think financing health care has been ugly that's nothing. Wait till congress starts taking measures on controlling costs. That will get much more ugly. But to answer your question, no, it's the correct order. They need to determine how health care access will be financed before they can begin addressing the issues of cost.

Our congress only seems to function only in crises mode. After addressing financial reforms to health care, which will actually increase expenditures, then that will precipitate a crises in addressing cost control and like I said that will be ugly!

But that is the order in which other wealthy industrial nations have addressed health care reform. First they addressed financing it, they the addressed cost control.
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half right....you say they need to address how to finance it before they can address costs....that's only part of the truth....in reality, they need to address how they can control it before they can address costs, and having their hands on the reins of the finance gives them that control.....Topspin made a telling comment on another thread....a liberal would step over a starving person to spit on someone wearing fur......to follow up, a liberal would step over someone who needs healthcare in order to control the health industry......
 
Watermark said:
Child: Mr, that chemo would make me SOOOO happy!
Storekeeper: Chemo? That'll be 100,000 dollars, kiddo.
Child: :( Imma get the GOVERNMENT!
Government: Here's the 100k to get junior here his Chemo.
CHild: YAYAYAYAYA!


Off in the distance, a conservative stares, shaking his head. What has happened to his country?
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you skipped the part where the government took 300,000 out of the storekeeper's pocket to do it......
 
Damocles said:
And, IMO, must come first in order to gain the support of anybody with a frontal lobe. It's preposterous to say there's 200 Billion in savings in Medicare right now in fraud, then do nothing about it.
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except it would not surprise me in the least if there WAS $200bil in Medicare fraud and that we HAVEN'T done anything about it......
 
PostmodernProphet said:
except it would not surprise me in the least if there WAS $200bil in Medicare fraud and that we HAVEN'T done anything about it......
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Hate to be on your side preacher,
hahah , why the fuck do dems need a massive trillion dollar bill to start eliminating hundreds of billions of fraud in their bloated giveaway programs already in place?
 
PostmodernProphet said:
half right....you say they need to address how to finance it before they can address costs....that's only part of the truth....in reality, they need to address how they can control it before they can address costs, and having their hands on the reins of the finance gives them that control.....Topspin made a telling comment on another thread....a liberal would step over a starving person to spit on someone wearing fur......to follow up, a liberal would step over someone who needs healthcare in order to control the health industry......
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The problem is, this isn't a partisan issue, or at least it shouldn't be and to put the shoe on the other foot, a conservative is a person who could fuck up a wet dream so who wants them in a position to make decisions that will affect peoples lives?

Let face it, the reality is that to control cost we need to standardize the financial and administrative side before we can address the issue of cost because cost is bound up in this issue and we all know that regardless of whether a market based or socialized based system is decided upon a single payer system (which is the financial side) being implemented will be the first step. No real reform will occur until that step is taken.
 
were going downhill in a car out of control with no brakes. Lets check the engine because to continue driving it must be functioning perfectly. Crash
 
Mott the Hoople said:
The problem is, this isn't a partisan issue, or at least it shouldn't be and to put the shoe on the other foot, a conservative is a person who could fuck up a wet dream so who wants them in a position to make decisions that will affect peoples lives?

Let face it, the reality is that to control cost we need to standardize the financial and administrative side before we can address the issue of cost because cost is bound up in this issue and we all know that regardless of whether a market based or socialized based system is decided upon a single payer system (which is the financial side) being implemented will be the first step. No real reform will occur until that step is taken.
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health care reform is not a partisan issue.....total control of the finances of the health care industry obviously is......apparently it's a liberal's wet dream and as you say, conservatives are here to fuck that up.......
 
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