Obama, Public Schools & Teachers Unions

cawacko

Well-known member
Here's an area where I strongly agree with Obama. The first sentence in the article states,

"The Obama administration says it wants to remake public education around the principle that the best teachers should be promoted and rewarded, regardless of seniority."

I hate the teachers union. I understand unions do what is in the best interest of the people in the union. But in the case of the teachers union what is in the best interest of the teachers isn't always/often isn't in the best interest of the kids.

I don't know how Obama accomplishes this without completely pissing out one of his biggest backers but if he really goes through with this then my hat is off to him.


D.C. Schools Chief Targets Tenure

WASHINGTON -- The Obama administration says it wants to remake public education around the principle that the best teachers should be promoted and rewarded, regardless of seniority.

And a brawl over just that idea is now playing out in the shadow of the White House.

The chancellor of Washington's school system, Michelle Rhee, is wrestling with one of the most expensive, worst performing school systems in the country. The dropout rate has hit 40%, and the cost per student is $14,000 a year. Buildings are crumbling and thousands of parents have abandoned the system, which serves about 45,000 students.

Ms. Rhee is trying to reduce what she believes to be a bloated school management and wrest more control over the district's affairs from the powerful local teachers' union. She has replaced principals, laid off teachers and closed underperforming schools.

She has also challenged what she feels is one of the biggest impediments to improvement: tenure, or strong job protections for teachers. The idea is to promise teachers much richer salaries, as well as performance bonuses, if they give up tenure. Good performers would be rewarded, poor performers gotten rid of.

In September, the 39-year-old Ms. Rhee, citing a looming budget gap, laid off nearly 400 school employees, including 266 teachers. The dismissals came weeks after Ms. Rhee finished hiring 934 new teachers over the summer. Ms. Rhee said she was initiating the layoffs based on "quality, not by seniority."

The Washington Teachers' Union filed a grievance and a lawsuit against the district over the layoffs, calling them "a blatant violation" of the union contract and a pretext for dismissing veterans without proper cause, which the district denies.

The feud has turned into a grudge match between Ms. Rhee and Randi Weingarten, head of the 1.4 million-member American Federation of Teachers, which has intervened directly in the local contract dispute. Ms. Rhee "has so poisoned the environment that I am not sure that we can ever get back to a good situation here," said Ms. Weingarten.

Ms. Rhee said the union fears the district's layoffs based on job performance will set a precedent for changes nationally. "If you ask any urban school superintendent, they would wish they could to exactly the same thing," she said.

The fight has become an issue for the Obama administration, which is preparing to award more than $4 billion in grants to states that are realigning their schools to reward teachers and principals for improved student performance. Education Secretary Arne Duncan has extolled other school districts, such as in New Haven, Conn., that have brokered deals recently with their unions, but he hasn't waded into the D.C. fight.

Still, Mr. Duncan said he wants to see the D.C. spat end soon. "We generally don't weigh in on local labor disputes, but this has gone on too long and they need to bring it to closure," he said in an interview. "There are a lot of good ideas on the table and this agreement could be a national model," he said.

Ms. Rhee told a group of corporate chief executives at a Wall Street Journal gathering in Washington this week that it made no sense for a struggling district to ignore teacher quality when initiating layoffs, an issue she called "one of the age-old sacred cows of unionism."

Under her plan, proposed in the summer of 2008 during negotiations over a new teacher contract, the district proposed significantly increasing teacher salaries and offering performance-based bonuses in return for teachers giving up some job security. She said the new pay scale would enable the highest-performing first-year teachers to make up to $78,000 a year, up from $45,000. Veterans could have earned as much as $131,000, roughly double what they had been paid. Those who wanted to keep their contractual job protections could opt out of the bonus plan.

"The union roundly rejected it -- went ballistic," she said, adding that the national teachers' unions viewed it as an assault on tenure.

Ms. Weingarten said the negotiations were close to completion, but the layoffs in September scuttled that effort.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125860189986054965.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_LEFTTopStories
 
Here's an area where I strongly agree with Obama. The first sentence in the article states,

"The Obama administration says it wants to remake public education around the principle that the best teachers should be promoted and rewarded, regardless of seniority."

I hate the teachers union. I understand unions do what is in the best interest of the people in the union. But in the case of the teachers union what is in the best interest of the teachers isn't always/often isn't in the best interest of the kids.

I don't know how Obama accomplishes this without completely pissing out one of his biggest backers but if he really goes through with this then my hat is off to him.

This is a huge area of interest for me. I absolutely despise the teacher's union (NEA) and my state affiliated union (OEA). This is my 22nd year as a teacher and I have never been a member of either one nor do I plan to be. I am a member of Professional Oklahoma Educators. Notice this part of their "About Us" page:

"we do not endorse or make contributions to political candidates"

I believe that there has to be a better way to determine the successfulness of a teacher than looking at test scores alone. Here is a little fact for ya. In Oklahoma our kids have to pass the Algebra EOI test before they can get a high school diploma. Last year 100% of my kids passed it....but I wouldn't want to turn them loose on a real Algebra class because they don't know Algebra. My point is that tests alone are a bogus way of assessing teachers.

Now I'll get to the dirty-ness of politics. The republican-led legislature in Oklahoma has been scaling back funding of the public schools because they want one thing for us: CONSOLIDATION. This year, for instance, they are going to cut schools back to 2006 funding and not call it a cut. Only an idiot couldn't tell that it is a cut but that's what they are going to do. This will force more small schools to have to close thier doors and the republicans will get their consolidation. I know there has to be some control over the administrative costs of small schools...it can get out of hand, but closing them and bussing kids for 1 1/2 to 2 hours isn't the answer.

I'll get off my soap box now but I could go on. I am definitely interested to see what this administration has in store for education.
 
Here's an area where I strongly agree with Obama. The first sentence in the article states,

"The Obama administration says it wants to remake public education around the principle that the best teachers should be promoted and rewarded, regardless of seniority."

I hate the teachers union. I understand unions do what is in the best interest of the people in the union. But in the case of the teachers union what is in the best interest of the teachers isn't always/often isn't in the best interest of the kids.

I don't know how Obama accomplishes this without completely pissing out one of his biggest backers but if he really goes through with this then my hat is off to him.


D.C. Schools Chief Targets Tenure

WASHINGTON -- The Obama administration says it wants to remake public education around the principle that the best teachers should be promoted and rewarded, regardless of seniority.

And a brawl over just that idea is now playing out in the shadow of the White House.

The chancellor of Washington's school system, Michelle Rhee, is wrestling with one of the most expensive, worst performing school systems in the country. The dropout rate has hit 40%, and the cost per student is $14,000 a year. Buildings are crumbling and thousands of parents have abandoned the system, which serves about 45,000 students.

Ms. Rhee is trying to reduce what she believes to be a bloated school management and wrest more control over the district's affairs from the powerful local teachers' union. She has replaced principals, laid off teachers and closed underperforming schools.

She has also challenged what she feels is one of the biggest impediments to improvement: tenure, or strong job protections for teachers. The idea is to promise teachers much richer salaries, as well as performance bonuses, if they give up tenure. Good performers would be rewarded, poor performers gotten rid of.

In September, the 39-year-old Ms. Rhee, citing a looming budget gap, laid off nearly 400 school employees, including 266 teachers. The dismissals came weeks after Ms. Rhee finished hiring 934 new teachers over the summer. Ms. Rhee said she was initiating the layoffs based on "quality, not by seniority."

The Washington Teachers' Union filed a grievance and a lawsuit against the district over the layoffs, calling them "a blatant violation" of the union contract and a pretext for dismissing veterans without proper cause, which the district denies.

The feud has turned into a grudge match between Ms. Rhee and Randi Weingarten, head of the 1.4 million-member American Federation of Teachers, which has intervened directly in the local contract dispute. Ms. Rhee "has so poisoned the environment that I am not sure that we can ever get back to a good situation here," said Ms. Weingarten.

Ms. Rhee said the union fears the district's layoffs based on job performance will set a precedent for changes nationally. "If you ask any urban school superintendent, they would wish they could to exactly the same thing," she said.

The fight has become an issue for the Obama administration, which is preparing to award more than $4 billion in grants to states that are realigning their schools to reward teachers and principals for improved student performance. Education Secretary Arne Duncan has extolled other school districts, such as in New Haven, Conn., that have brokered deals recently with their unions, but he hasn't waded into the D.C. fight.

Still, Mr. Duncan said he wants to see the D.C. spat end soon. "We generally don't weigh in on local labor disputes, but this has gone on too long and they need to bring it to closure," he said in an interview. "There are a lot of good ideas on the table and this agreement could be a national model," he said.

Ms. Rhee told a group of corporate chief executives at a Wall Street Journal gathering in Washington this week that it made no sense for a struggling district to ignore teacher quality when initiating layoffs, an issue she called "one of the age-old sacred cows of unionism."

Under her plan, proposed in the summer of 2008 during negotiations over a new teacher contract, the district proposed significantly increasing teacher salaries and offering performance-based bonuses in return for teachers giving up some job security. She said the new pay scale would enable the highest-performing first-year teachers to make up to $78,000 a year, up from $45,000. Veterans could have earned as much as $131,000, roughly double what they had been paid. Those who wanted to keep their contractual job protections could opt out of the bonus plan.

"The union roundly rejected it -- went ballistic," she said, adding that the national teachers' unions viewed it as an assault on tenure.

Ms. Weingarten said the negotiations were close to completion, but the layoffs in September scuttled that effort.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125860189986054965.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_LEFTTopStories

Of course he 'cares' and is 'concerned.' Yet, he denies vouchers for hundreds of kids, while paying for his daughters out of DC public schools:

http://www.sidwell.edu/admissions/tuition-and-fees/index.aspx

Lower School
$29,842
Middle and Upper Schools
$30,842
Tuition includes a daily hot lunch and Lower School textbooks.
 
Of course he 'cares' and is 'concerned.' Yet, he denies vouchers for hundreds of kids, while paying for his daughters out of DC public schools:

http://www.sidwell.edu/admissions/tuition-and-fees/index.aspx

No, I remember that. That was crap and I posted it here when he did it.

Like anything a politician says lets see the results first but I at least give him credit here for his rhetoric. But you are right to be cynical about it.
 
don't think this thread of you agreeing with obama will make you less of a partisan hack or look fair and balanced.

yours truly,

onceler
 
I have no idea. If he did I never read anything about it being implemented.

i am nearly positive he did....but google is hamstrung on obama....what do you think of this:

Obama acknowledged that conflict and possible heavy resistance in the education establishment, saying: "For decades, Washington has been trapped in the same stale debates that have paralyzed progress and perpetuated our educational decline. Too many supporters of my party have resisted the idea of rewarding excellence in teaching with extra pay, even though we know it can make a difference in the classroom."

Despite their history on the issues, union leaders publicly welcomed Obama's words, saying it seems clear he wants to include them in his decisions in a way President George W. Bush did not.

seems like the issue is not merit pay, rather their perception on whether bush included them....


http://www.boston.com/news/educatio..._backs_teacher_merit_pay_and_charter_schools/
 
i am nearly positive he did....but google is hamstrung on obama....what do you think of this:



seems like the issue is not merit pay, rather their perception on whether bush included them....


http://www.boston.com/news/educatio..._backs_teacher_merit_pay_and_charter_schools/

It doesn't say anything about Bush doing this. The educators are complaining about Bush because he is a Republican and they support Democrats. But Bush is irrelevent here. He's not President and he's not making any decisions.

Why I gave Obama props is his rhetoric goes against what the teachers unions usually want. Not there is a long distance between rhetoric and something getting accomplished and Obama has accomplished nothing yet on this issue. But I applaud him on where he is starting and what he wants to do. And as I said if he accomplishes it I will tip my hat to him.
 
don't think this thread of you agreeing with obama will make you less of a partisan hack or look fair and balanced.

yours truly,

onceler

Truly weird obsession you have.

And look at you - trying to credit your favorite Prez again! How cute that is...
:cof1:
 
It doesn't say anything about Bush doing this. The educators are complaining about Bush because he is a Republican and they support Democrats. But Bush is irrelevent here. He's not President and he's not making any decisions.

Why I gave Obama props is his rhetoric goes against what the teachers unions usually want. Not there is a long distance between rhetoric and something getting accomplished and Obama has accomplished nothing yet on this issue. But I applaud him on where he is starting and what he wants to do. And as I said if he accomplishes it I will tip my hat to him.

ok....this is what i could find....

Bush seeks teacher merit-pay funds; Incentive fund aims to reward educators for improving results in inner-city schools.(PAGE ONE)

Byline: Amy Fagan, THE WASHINGTON TIMES

President Bush wants more money in the 2008 budget for a fund that encourages performance-based pay systems for teachers - a request that will no doubt feed into the larger debate on Capitol Hill about how best to attract, create and retain effective teachers.

The administration is asking for $199 million for its Teacher Incentive Fund, which was created in 2006. The fund provides financial incentives for teachers and principals who improve student achievement in high-poverty schools and helps to recruit top teachers ...

http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-159240543.html
 
I like it. Any idea if it passed?

It's not an Obama vs. Bush thing. Obama is President now and this is an important issue.

i don't know, i believe the union was heavily against it...and if obama is now copying bush by trying to get it passed....i am going to say it didn't pass

and you're absolutely right, it is an important issue....i just wanted to point out that bush proposed virtually the same thing, so this is not just an obama new idea.....being a dem, it is possible they will concede more for obama, which is a good thing, but it is still politics as usual
 
i don't know, i believe the union was heavily against it...and if obama is now copying bush by trying to get it passed....i am going to say it didn't pass

and you're absolutely right, it is an important issue....i just wanted to point out that bush proposed virtually the same thing, so this is not just an obama new idea.....being a dem, it is possible they will concede more for obama, which is a good thing, but it is still politics as usual

For whatever reason this issue hits home with me so I could care less if Bush proposed it first and Obama is proposing something similar. That's partisan b.s. I want to see a change in the way teachers are paid and are damn near impossible to fire because of tenure. I could care less who does it.
 
For whatever reason this issue hits home with me so I could care less if Bush proposed it first and Obama is proposing something similar. That's partisan b.s. I want to see a change in the way teachers are paid and are damn near impossible to fire because of tenure. I could care less who does it.

ok....you asked me for proof if bush was for this when i mentioned it....so you care somewhat....

i supported bush's idea and now i support this same idea....
 
Just trolling. Your obsession with giving one of the worst Presidents in history credit for everything is always madcap hilarity.
:pke:

oh...so you're just trolling...i admire your honesty

and the rest....well.....you know, as well as i, it is just trolling.....i never said that, nor implied that.....

do you need a sludge cookie to feed that troll appetite?
 
This is a huge area of interest for me. I absolutely despise the teacher's union (NEA) and my state affiliated union (OEA). This is my 22nd year as a teacher and I have never been a member of either one nor do I plan to be. I am a member of Professional Oklahoma Educators. Notice this part of their "About Us" page:

"we do not endorse or make contributions to political candidates"

I believe that there has to be a better way to determine the successfulness of a teacher than looking at test scores alone. Here is a little fact for ya. In Oklahoma our kids have to pass the Algebra EOI test before they can get a high school diploma. Last year 100% of my kids passed it....but I wouldn't want to turn them loose on a real Algebra class because they don't know Algebra. My point is that tests alone are a bogus way of assessing teachers.

Now I'll get to the dirty-ness of politics. The republican-led legislature in Oklahoma has been scaling back funding of the public schools because they want one thing for us: CONSOLIDATION. This year, for instance, they are going to cut schools back to 2006 funding and not call it a cut. Only an idiot couldn't tell that it is a cut but that's what they are going to do. This will force more small schools to have to close thier doors and the republicans will get their consolidation. I know there has to be some control over the administrative costs of small schools...it can get out of hand, but closing them and bussing kids for 1 1/2 to 2 hours isn't the answer.

I'll get off my soap box now but I could go on. I am definitely interested to see what this administration has in store for education.

There is a trend now, in education, health, correction, police etc etc, to put the cutting of costs first and the welfare of pupils and society a poor second.
Probably as a result of previous bad management but it is the public that suffer.
Per capita we (HK) are one of the richest societies in the world but still we underpay and overwork our teachers and medical staff. That is capitalism. In the US that is conservatism. In life that is criminal!
If it wasn't for a dedication that private industry and government would be unable to imagine these institutions would fail. Indeed, in America and some parts of Europe, we can point to far too many failures for comfort.
 
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