Chaos in the Democratic party

lol....smigel claims he is not attackign the messenger and is not committing the ad hom.....

yet all he has done is insult the messenger without addressing a single issue of what he said....

lmao, smigel, you're funny
 
Chaos, that's a good one. Methinks Rubin is indulging in some wishful thinking to deflect attention from the total bedlam of his own party.

It's pretty sad when the criterion you use to determine weakness or strength of a president is his hawkishness. It's more than sad that you all use military might as the determiner of what makes a country great. Nothing about the people who made the country what it is, just who has the most and biggest weapons.

God forbid Obama should take time to weigh the pros and cons of sending more human lives into an unwinnable conflict. "Unwinnable" being my take on it. People like you kept their lips buttoned through six-plus years of needless destruction that includes almost 4700 troop deaths and countless Iraqi deaths, but that was okay since it was bush-initiated. Now you all have the nerve to whine that "troops are dying because of this incompetence". I suppose you also think that 30,000 additional troops will enter and exit A'stan without a single casualty.

"God help us" is not the correct phrase here. I say thank God that those hawks who are most vocal over the right to kill and destroy are in the minority, and that most Americans are waking up and protesting endless war.

Your endless DNC talking points are getting very old. If we go in, we have to go in to win, not be half-assed about it.

"The decline in Obama's approval rating on Afghanistan is evident among all party groups, with double-digit decreases since September among Republicans (17 points), independents (16 points), and Democrats (10 points)." Gallup poll
 
Argumentum ad populum. You failed.

I am waiting with bated breath to see the full on frontal assault of the Michael Moores and the Chris Matthews whose heads are already exploding over the audacity of Hussein Obama to send those 30K soldiers.

I was a little bit surprised that Hussein Obama did not get the full on pass for this travesty and that stories like these are sprouting up all over the net.

http://www.jsonline.com/news/78383277.html
 
Argumentum ad populum. You failed.


$1 trillion vs bush estimated $15 billion.
"Iraqi oil revenue will pay for the war" (bush)
7 years vs "surprised if it takes more than a few weeks".(Rumsfeld)
Iraq still unfinished, costs still mounting, bombs still exploding.
5000 Americans dead on the whim of a cowboy and his gang who merely wanted to right his father's mistake.
bin Laden still free.

Who failed?
 
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I am waiting with bated breath to see the full on frontal assault of the Michael Moores and the Chris Matthews whose heads are already exploding over the audacity of Hussein Obama to send those 30K soldiers.

I was a little bit surprised that Hussein Obama did not get the full on pass for this travesty and that stories like these are sprouting up all over the net.

http://www.jsonline.com/news/78383277.html
They publicly defended Clinton until Monica showed up with irrefutable DNA evidence (and some still defended him then), then they simply whine like this yet would still vote for him.
 
$1 trillion vs bush estimated 15 billion.
"Iraqi oil revenue will pay forn the war" (bush)
7 years vs "surprised if it takes more than a few weeks".(Rumsfeld)
Iraq still unfinished, costs still mounting, bombs still exploding.
5000 Americans dead on the whim of a cowboy and his gang who merely wanted to right his father's mistake.
bin Laden still free.

Who failed?
War ain't cheap or easy, mission accomplished, you failed.
 
I am waiting with bated breath to see the full on frontal assault of the Michael Moores and the Chris Matthews whose heads are already exploding over the audacity of Hussein Obama to send those 30K soldiers.

I was a little bit surprised that Hussein Obama did not get the full on pass for this travesty and that stories like these are sprouting up all over the net.

http://www.jsonline.com/news/78383277.html

There will be no "frontal assaults" from me and many other like-minded Libs whose position is that the only way to stop the killing and the expense is to bring the troops home.
 
someone say Michael Moore? like we are suppose to listen to a word this fat ass idiot says.....:cof1:

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Posted on Monday, November 30, 2009 1:27:31 PM by bigbob

Dear President Obama,

Do you really want to be the new "war president"? If you go to West Point tomorrow night (Tuesday, 8pm) and announce that you are increasing, rather than withdrawing, the troops in Afghanistan, you are the new war president. Pure and simple. And with that you will do the worst possible thing you could do -- destroy the hopes and dreams so many millions have placed in you. With just one speech tomorrow night you will turn a multitude of young people who were the backbone of your campaign into disillusioned cynics. You will teach them what they've always heard is true -- that all politicians are alike. I simply can't believe you're about to do what they say you are going to do. Please say it isn't so.

It is not your job to do what the generals tell you to do. We are a civilian-run government. WE tell the Joint Chiefs what to do, not the other way around. That's the way General Washington insisted it must be. That's what President Truman told General MacArthur when MacArthur wanted to invade China. "You're fired!," said Truman, and that was that. And you should have fired Gen. McChrystal when he went to the press to preempt you, telling the press what YOU had to do. Let me be blunt: We love our kids in the armed services, but we f*#&in' hate these generals, from Westmoreland in Vietnam to, yes, even Colin Powell for lying to the UN with his made-up drawings of WMD (he has since sought redemption).

So now you feel backed into a corner. 30 years ago this past Thursday (Thanksgiving) the Soviet generals had a cool idea -- "Let's invade Afghanistan!" Well, that turned out to be the final nail in the USSR coffin.

There's a reason they don't call Afghanistan the "Garden State" (though they probably should, seeing how the corrupt President Karzai, whom we back, has his brother in the heroin trade raising poppies). Afghanistan's nickname is the "Graveyard of Empires." If you don't believe it, give the British a call. I'd have you call Genghis Khan but I lost his number. I do have Gorbachev's number though. It's + 41 22 789 1662. I'm sure he could give you an earful about the historic blunder you're about to commit.

With our economic collapse still in full swing and our precious young men and women being sacrificed on the altar of arrogance and greed, the breakdown of this great civilization we call America will head, full throttle, into oblivion if you become the "war president." Empires never think the end is near, until the end is here. Empires think that more evil will force the heathens to toe the line -- and yet it never works. The heathens usually tear them to shreds.

Choose carefully, President Obama. You of all people know that it doesn't have to be this way. You still have a few hours to listen to your heart, and your own clear thinking. You know that nothing good can come from sending more troops halfway around the world to a place neither you nor they understand, to achieve an objective that neither you nor they understand, in a country that does not want us there. You can feel it in your bones.

I know you know that there are LESS than a hundred al-Qaeda left in Afghanistan! A hundred thousand troops trying to crush a hundred guys living in caves? Are you serious? Have you drunk Bush's Kool-Aid? I refuse to believe it.

Your potential decision to expand the war (while saying that you're doing it so you can "end the war") will do more to set your legacy in stone than any of the great things you've said and done in your first year. One more throwing a bone from you to the Republicans and the coalition of the hopeful and the hopeless may be gone -- and this nation will be back in the hands of the haters quicker than you can shout "tea bag!"

Choose carefully, Mr. President. Your corporate backers are going to abandon you as soon as it is clear you are a one-term president and that the nation will be safely back in the hands of the usual idiots who do their bidding. That could be Wednesday morning.

We the people still love you. We the people still have a sliver of hope. But we the people can't take it anymore. We can't take your caving in, over and over, when we elected you by a big, wide margin of millions to get in there and get the job done. What part of "landslide victory" don't you understand?

Don't be deceived into thinking that sending a few more troops into Afghanistan will make a difference, or earn you the respect of the haters. They will not stop until this country is torn asunder and every last dollar is extracted from the poor and soon-to-be poor. You could send a million troops over there and the crazy Right still wouldn't be happy. You would still be the victim of their incessant venom on hate radio and television because no matter what you do, you can't change the one thing about yourself that sends them over the edge.

The haters were not the ones who elected you, and they can't be won over by abandoning the rest of us.

President Obama, it's time to come home. Ask your neighbors in Chicago and the parents of the young men and women doing the fighting and dying if they want more billions and more troops sent to Afghanistan. Do you think they will say, "No, we don't need health care, we don't need jobs, we don't need homes. You go on ahead, Mr. President, and send our wealth and our sons and daughters overseas, 'cause we don't need them, either."

What would Martin Luther King, Jr. do? What would your grandmother do? Not send more poor people to kill other poor people who pose no threat to them, that's what they'd do. Not spend billions and trillions to wage war while American children are sleeping on the streets and standing in bread lines.

All of us that voted and prayed for you and cried the night of your victory have endured an Orwellian hell of eight years of crimes committed in our name: torture, rendition, suspension of the bill of rights, invading nations who had not attacked us, blowing up neighborhoods that Saddam "might" be in (but never was), slaughtering wedding parties in Afghanistan. We watched as hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians were slaughtered and tens of thousands of our brave young men and women were killed, maimed, or endured mental anguish -- the full terror of which we scarcely know.

When we elected you we didn't expect miracles. We didn't even expect much change. But we expected some. We thought you would stop the madness. Stop the killing. Stop the insane idea that men with guns can reorganize a nation that doesn't even function as a nation and never, ever has.

Stop, stop, stop! For the sake of the lives of young Americans and Afghan civilians, stop. For the sake of your presidency, hope, and the future of our nation, stop. For God's sake, stop.

Tonight we still have hope.

Tomorrow, we shall see. The ball is in your court. You DON'T have to do this. You can be a profile in courage. You can be your mother's son.

We're counting on you.

Yours, Michael Moore MMFlint@aol.com MichaelMoore.com

P.S. There's still time to have your voice heard. Call the White House at 202-456-1111 or email the President.

http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/mikes-letter/open-letter-president-obama-michael-moore
 
War ain't cheap or easy, mission accomplished, you failed.

You forgot to mention mismanaged in your equation, and, God knows, it wasn't "easy" for the bush gang. War never has been "easy or cheap" to the old farts who send young men out to fight their fight while on their fat asses in a comfy armchair thousands of miles away.
Can you spell O-I-L ?
 
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You forgot to mention mismanaged in your equation, and, God knows, it wasn't "easy" for the bush gang. War never has been "easy or cheap" to the old farts who send young men out to fight their fight while on their fat asses in a comfy armchair thousands of miles away.
Can you spell O-I-L ?
Your opinion only; meaningless.
 
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