Dear Americans, please don't ever give up on universal health care!

Epicurus said:
It isn't.
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The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
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This gives the congress a general power to collect taxes and spend it on what it deems necessary.
 
Watermark said:
This gives the congress a general power to collect taxes and spend it on what it deems necessary.
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I see that it very blatantly leaves out the power to force people to buy health insurance. in fact, the absolute ONLY way for congress to actually provide healthcare for every single american would be to create a new tax. Please try that. I'd love to see Obama and Pelosi get around not raising taxes for people making under 250k.
 
Epicurus said:
What documents discussing the legislative history of this language leads you to conclude that this is what was intended?
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Alexander Hamilton's federalist papers promoted the view. He was at the constitutional convention. This interpretation of the document has won out. No matter what Madison says, there's obviously nothing in the constitution saying that general welfare is limited to the other parts of the tax and spend clause. That's extra-constitutional logic.
 
Watermark said:
Alexander Hamilton's federalist papers promoted the view. He was at the constitutional convention. This interpretation of the document has won out. No matter what Madison says, there's obviously nothing in the constitution saying that general welfare is limited to the other parts of the tax and spend clause. That's extra-constitutional logic.
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So your contention is that a document that was written to restrict the powers of the federal government, advertised as a document to restrict the powers of the federal government, voted and ratified as a document to restrict the powers of the federal government, has a big stamp on the back that says 'fooled you fuckers' and in actuality lets the federal government do anything and everything it wants to do?
 
Epicurus said:
It isn't.
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Yet Jefferson did realize there were things that just HAD to be done for the countries general welfare.

A Great Port and a navicable river made this country what it is today.

Without it this country would be Much smaller and less powerful.

Even Jefferson could not live up to his strict contructionist interpitation of the constitution while in office.

How about the Cumberland Road?
 
CaptBillyTheKid said:
The part that allows the government to sign treaties with other nations, not general welfare. General welfare, in regards to the constitution, only appears in the preamble.
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It appears in the tax and spend clause.

And the supreme court has determined that treaties (proper treaties) are above normal law. So a treaty that specifically effected states in a way that normally would be unconstitutional would be allowed.

IMHO this would be a great way to abolish the death penalty - sign the American death penalty treating, thereby barring us from ever implementing it again and preventing any state from ever again for any reason whatsoever.
 
Watermark said:
It appears in the tax and spend clause.

And the supreme court has determined that treaties (proper treaties) are above normal law. So a treaty that specifically effected states in a way that normally would be unconstitutional would be allowed.

IMHO this would be a great way to abolish the death penalty - sign the American death penalty treating, thereby barring us from ever implementing it again and preventing any state from ever again for any reason whatsoever.
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You are correct about the taxation clause, I am in error. And, though I oppose the death penalty, I oppose signing away our national sovereignty even more.
 
Watermark said:
It appears in the tax and spend clause.

And the supreme court has determined that treaties (proper treaties) are above normal law. So a treaty that specifically effected states in a way that normally would be unconstitutional would be allowed.

IMHO this would be a great way to abolish the death penalty - sign the American death penalty treating, thereby barring us from ever implementing it again and preventing any state from ever again for any reason whatsoever.
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You need to have the death penalty applied to you, then brought back to life, and have it applied again.
 
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