The Company Behind Missing Tourist Sub Fired an Employee After He Expressed Safety

[Guno צְבִי]

OceanGate Expeditions, which charters insanely expensive aquatic trips like the one that went awry this weekend, was previously the subject of a lawsuit involving its former director of marine operations. The exec in question, David Lochridge, lost his job at the company in January of 2018 after he delivered a “scathing” report to the company’s senior management that highlighted numerous safety concerns with its underwater vehicle, TechCrunch reports.

Lochridge became actively concerned about these issues after he was instructed by management to conduct a quality inspection of the submersible. The inspection revealed “numerous issues that posed serious safety concerns,” according to the lawsuit.

One of those issues was Titan’s hull—which was made of what was then a first-of-its-kind carbon fiber structure. TechCrunch writes that the material OceanGate used to craft its ship was appealing because it “can be stronger and lighter than steel.” However, the material could also be “be prone to sudden failure under stress,”

https://www.yahoo.com/news/company-behind-missing-tourist-sub-053000248.html

 

[Dutch Uncle]

...One of those issues was Titan’s hull—which was made of what was then a first-of-its-kind carbon fiber structure. TechCrunch writes that the material OceanGate used to craft its ship was appealing because it “can be stronger and lighter than steel.” However, the material could also be “be prone to sudden failure under stress,”

https://www.yahoo.com/news/company-behind-missing-tourist-sub-053000248.html

It appears David Lochridge wasn't the only one who raised concerns both with the safety of the operation and the construction material. Since it was uncertified, I doubt the sub's structure was tested periodically. It made close to two dozen dives which would put a lot of stress on the hull then release that stress. As one expert noted, "like repeatedly bending a coat hanger". *

This is similar to what happened to the first jet airliner, the British de Havilland DH.106 Comet, which first flew in 1949. In 1954 they started exploding in flight. The reason was similar to the Titan; the flexing of the aluminum pressure hull of the aircraft as it ascended up to 40,000 feet while maintaining internal pressures of 8000 feet or less. In that case it's like bending an aluminum beer can several times until it tears.

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20170404-the-british-airliner-that-changed-the-world
When the de Havilland Comet flew into the sky in 1949, it changed aviation for good. BBC Future examines the legacy of a flawed but far-reaching design.

The first Comet was rolled out of its hangar at the de Havilland factory in Hatfield, some 25 miles (40 kilometres) north of central London, in July 1949 – only four years after the end of World War Two....

...After almost two years of test flights, the Comet made its first scheduled flight on 2 May 1952, flying – via Rome, Beirut, Khartoum, Entebbe and Livingstone – to Johannesburg. The flight, taking just over 23 hours, was a triumph. Passengers reported a smooth journey, superb service and beautifully presented meals.

With no other passenger jets yet in service, the Comet was the envy of the world. “The Comet fleet considered themselves the elite in BOAC,” says Hugh Dibley, a pilot with the airline in the 1960s. “It even had its own special call-sign: ‘Jet Speedbird’.”

...“There were two fatal flaws with the aircraft,” says Hodgson. “First was the method of construction – the skin of the aircraft was made as thin as possible to save weight.”

“The Comet flew very high, and it needed to be pressurised so the passengers inside can breathe,” says Hodgson. “If you do that, it’s like taking a toy balloon and blowing it up and deflating it constantly – eventually it’s going to tear.”

 

[Cypress]

Titan’s hull—which was made of what was then a first-of-its-kind carbon fiber structure. TechCrunch writes that the material OceanGate used to craft its ship was appealing because it “can be stronger and lighter than steel.” However, the material could also be “be prone to sudden failure under stress,”

I wondered why they didn't use proven technology. Dutch Uncle pointed out the Russian Mir had an impeccable safety record and was certified to dive to 20k feet below surface.

Just being innovative for the sake of being innovative was never that great of a selling point to me.

 

[Yakuda]

OceanGate Expeditions, which charters insanely expensive aquatic trips like the one that went awry this weekend, was previously the subject of a lawsuit involving its former director of marine operations. The exec in question, David Lochridge, lost his job at the company in January of 2018 after he delivered a “scathing” report to the company’s senior management that highlighted numerous safety concerns with its underwater vehicle, TechCrunch reports.

Lochridge became actively concerned about these issues after he was instructed by management to conduct a quality inspection of the submersible. The inspection revealed “numerous issues that posed serious safety concerns,” according to the lawsuit.

One of those issues was Titan’s hull—which was made of what was then a first-of-its-kind carbon fiber structure. TechCrunch writes that the material OceanGate used to craft its ship was appealing because it “can be stronger and lighter than steel.” However, the material could also be “be prone to sudden failure under stress,”

https://www.yahoo.com/news/company-behind-missing-tourist-sub-053000248.html

If you haven't noticed life is a risky business.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

I wondered why they didn't use proven technology. Dutch Uncle pointed out the Russian Mir had an impeccable safety record and was certified to dive to 20k feet below surface.

Just being innovative for the sake of being innovative was never that great of a selling point to me.

It appears to reduce cost and increase passenger space. The Mir had an 8 inch window. The Titan had the "largest viewport of any deep-sea manned submersible".

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-65960217

What's it like inside?
The sub itself is extremely narrow, measuring just 670 cm x 280 cm x 250 cm (22ft x 9.2ft x 8.3ft), and can carry a crew of just five people - a pilot and four passengers.

While it is bigger than competitors, passengers are required to sit on the floor with limited room to move around.

At the front of the vessel is a large domed porthole offering a viewing point, which the company claims is the "largest viewport of any deep-sea manned submersible".

The walls of the sub are also heated as conditions can become extremely cold at such depths. Wall-mounted lamps are the only source of light on board.

Unusually though, it includes a private toilet for customers at the front of the sub. A small curtain is pulled across when it is in use and the pilot turns up some onboard music.

However, the company's website does recommend "you restrict your diet before and during the dive to reduce the likelihood that you will need to use the facilities".

 

[Cypress]

It appears to reduce cost and increase passenger space. The Mir had an 8 inch window. The Titan had the "largest viewport of any deep-sea manned submersible".

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-65960217

The first red flag to me is cutting costs.

So capitalism basically killed those people. They didn't use proven and safe technology because of cutting costs and selling more seats to passengers.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

The first red flag to me is cutting costs.

So capitalism basically killed those people. They didn't use proven and safe technology because of cutting costs and selling more seats to passengers.

Agreed, but innovations are always being made and there are people willing to pay for it.

While I agree, there's also the factor of free will. The fact Stockton believed enough in his submersible to pilot it himself says a lot.

 

[domer76]

Know what killed them? The idea that many of the ultra wealthy have. That enough is never enough.

 

[Cypress]

Agreed, but innovations are always being made and there are people willing to pay for it.

While I agree, there's also the factor of free will. The fact Stockton believed enough in his submersible to pilot it himself says a lot.

All the "innovation" that went into Microsoft Excel 2010 struck me as just a way to market a product and sell new crap. Excel 2003 worked perfectly fine for me.

I don't know if Stockton himself is a world class mechanical engineer or materials scientist to be able to judge the safety of his technology.

Innovation is fine, but when human safety is involved I think Oceangate should have been more rigorous and transparent about letting independent outside experts evaluate and test the technology. He had a vested economic interest in it.

Its all hindsight though, I would have never suspected anything before now.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

All the "innovation" that went into Microsoft Excel 2010 struck me as just a way to market a product and sell new crap. Excel 2003 worked perfectly fine for me.

I don't know if Stockton himself is a world class mechanical engineer or materials scientist to be able to judge the safety of his technology.

Innovation is fine, but when human safety is involved I think Oceangate should have been more rigorous and transparent about letting independent outside experts evaluate and test the technology. He had a vested economic interest in it.

Its all hindsight though, I would have never suspected anything before now.

"Planned Obsolescence" has been around for over a century. It not only maintains profits but keeps employees employed. What good would it do to design the perfect car, sell them to everyone in America and then shut down the factory?

It appears Stockton Rush was an experienced engineer...at least in aviation.

https://news.yahoo.com/haunting-photos-show-oceangate-ceo-212132649.html

Rush previously had experience in aviation, becoming "the youngest jet transport rated pilot in the world" at age 19 in 1981, according to his bio on the OceanGate website.

He became an F-15 flight test engineer and later worked with sonar and wireless technologies for marine applications.

"In 1989, Rush personally built a Glasair III experimental aircraft, which he still owns and flies," according to OceanGate. "He obtained his BSE in Aerospace Engineering from Princeton University in 1984, and his MBA from the U.C. Berkeley Haas School of Business in 1989."

 

[NiftyNiblick]

American free enterprise working at its normal level of morality is all that we have to see here.

People defend it as much as any religious superstition that they may have,
and that includes the many who are exploited by it.

It seems as if some oligarchs may have crashed into some Karma, but I can't say for sure.

 

[Yakuda]

The first red flag to me is cutting costs.

So capitalism basically killed those people. They didn't use proven and safe technology because of cutting costs and selling more seats to passengers.

That's inaccurate. Making better products at a lower cost is the engine of innovation and capitalism. No one was forced to get on that submersible. Life is risky.

 

[Lionfish]

 

[Cypress]

I wondered why they didn't use proven technology. Dutch Uncle pointed out the Russian Mir had an impeccable safety record and was certified to dive to 20k feet below surface.

Just being innovative for the sake of being innovative was never that great of a selling point to me.

OceanGate CEO Stockton Rush, one of five passengers killed on a fatal mission to the Titanic wreckage this week, once admitted on camera to "breaking some rules" to build the tourist submersible.

In comments to Mexican travel vlogger Alan Estrada in 2021, Rush evoked General MacArthur saying, "You’re remembered for the rules you break."

"I’ve broken some rules to make this. I think I’ve broken them with logic and good engineering behind me," Rush said.

He conceded that deep-sea submersibles "as a rule" should not be made with carbon fiber and titanium, but he did anyway.

"It’s picking the rules that you break that are the ones that will add value to others and add value to society," Rush said.

https://www.foxbusiness.com/technol...some-rules-build-doomed-titan-submersible.amp

 

[Lionfish]

 

[Dutch Uncle]

OceanGate CEO Stockton Rush, one of five passengers killed on a fatal mission to the Titanic wreckage this week, once admitted on camera to "breaking some rules" to build the tourist submersible.

In comments to Mexican travel vlogger Alan Estrada in 2021, Rush evoked General MacArthur saying, "You’re remembered for the rules you break."

"I’ve broken some rules to make this. I think I’ve broken them with logic and good engineering behind me," Rush said.

He conceded that deep-sea submersibles "as a rule" should not be made with carbon fiber and titanium, but he did anyway.

"It’s picking the rules that you break that are the ones that will add value to others and add value to society," Rush said.

https://www.foxbusiness.com/technol...some-rules-build-doomed-titan-submersible.amp

Looks like he broke one rule too many.

James Cameron admitted the same in an interview. The main difference is that "it's one thing to take the risks yourself but it's another to bring passengers along", or words to that effect. I agree with him. Breaking rules to advance science is good, but involving innocent people is not.

 

[Cypress]

Looks like he broke one rule too many.

James Cameron admitted the same in an interview. The main difference is that "it's one thing to take the risks yourself but it's another to bring passengers along", or words to that effect. I agree with him. Breaking rules to advance science is good, but involving innocent people is not.

That's what I'm wondering. If he told his customers carbon fiber is not what most people use to build deep sea submersibles, but he "thinks" he has good logic and engineering to attempt it.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

That's what I'm wondering. If he told his customers carbon fiber is not what most people use to build deep sea submersibles, but he "thinks" he has good logic and engineering to attempt it.

His best evidence was 21(?) previous safe trips.

 

[evince]

If you haven't noticed life is a risky business.

What exactly are you defending here idiot?

 

[evince]

That's inaccurate. Making better products at a lower cost is the engine of innovation and capitalism. No one was forced to get on that submersible. Life is risky.

The son didn’t want to go


His dad talked him into it