NATO’s Scorched Earth in Ukraine | Consortium News

Lightbringer said:
My problem is where do we go after all of the Ukrainians are dead? The point of this is to destroy Russia. The Ukraine cannot do that. When the Ukrainians can no longer fight what do we do then? Strategic weapons?
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Agreed, I strongly suspect that the only way the west can make Russia leave its new territory is by using the nuclear option. And if they do -that-, it could mean the end of us all.
 
Nordberg said:
Tinkerpeach said:
Biden is weak and Putin knows this.

He is not afraid of him.

Hell Biden said right away that we wouldn't engage the Russians, what leader would ever say some shit like that.
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You actually typed that? Biden and Putin are not in a cage match. We are helping by supplying the arms that Ukraine needs.
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More like helping Ukraine commit assisted suicide. From the article quoted in the opening post:

**
The West seems content to let Zelensky go on wasting Ukraine’s increasingly scarce military-age men in a process described by writer Raúl Ilargi Meijer as NATO’s assisted suicide of the Ukrainian nation.

The NATO unspoken strategy seems to be: we know Russia is inevitably winning in Ukraine, but we will make sure we and our Kiev proxies destroy as much as possible of Ukraine’s manpower and national wealth before Russia takes control of the country.
**


I decided to take a look at this article written by Raul Meijer. Thought it was pretty good. Here's his conclusion:

**
NATO is the past. Its power has waned. The US alone spends more than 10 times more on its defense budget than Russia, but is lagging way behind in weapons development. And it’s not going to make up for that disadvantage anytime soon. Certainly not in time to turn the Ukraine conflict around. And still guys like Rutte and Milley want to send more tanks into the battlefield. These people need psychiatric assistance. As do the next tranches of Ukraine cannon fodder. What we, the collective west, are providing Ukraine with, is not a chance at winning a war, but a mind boggingly huge assisted suicide program. And we, NATO citizens, should ask ourselves if we want to be part of that. If you live in NATO/EU territory, this is now on your conscience. No escaping anymore. They speak and act in your name. You can no longer claim innocence.

How many more young Ukrainians are left for you to kill? The “400,000 dead young Ukrainians” number comes from US military veterans like Scott Ritter and Douglas Macgregor. Maybe it’s “only” 350,000. But that included all their most experienced and trained soldiers. Their replacements are nowhere near as good. How many of those? I’d guess 100,000, 200,000 at best. While Russia just finished properly training 300,000 over an 8-month period, Kiev picked up kids and 65-year olds from the street, gave them a 2-week crash course, and dumped them at a frontline.

But you know what’s the worst thing here, and that I haven’t even mentioned? Nobody on the US/NATO/Kiev side, when confronted with those numbers among Ukrainians, ever mentions peace talks. No-one. The reason is that they would have to admit Russia’s won and NATO lost. Not just Ukraine lost, but NATO. And that is unthinkable. Consider what that would mean for the close to $1 trillion a year US arms industry, Raytheon, Boeing etc. They would never -voluntarily- admit it. Hey, they make more profit than they have in decades… What’s another 100,000 Ukrainian assisted suicides? I grew up thinking that every human life matters.
**

Source:
Assisted Suicide | theautomaticearth.com
 
Phoenyx said:
More like helping Ukraine commit assisted suicide. From the article quoted in the opening post:

**
The West seems content to let Zelensky go on wasting Ukraine’s increasingly scarce military-age men in a process described by writer Raúl Ilargi Meijer as NATO’s assisted suicide of the Ukrainian nation.

The NATO unspoken strategy seems to be: we know Russia is inevitably winning in Ukraine, but we will make sure we and our Kiev proxies destroy as much as possible of Ukraine’s manpower and national wealth before Russia takes control of the country.
**


I decided to take a look at this article written by Raul Meijer. Thought it was pretty good. Here's his conclusion:

**
NATO is the past. Its power has waned. The US alone spends more than 10 times more on its defense budget than Russia, but is lagging way behind in weapons development. And it’s not going to make up for that disadvantage anytime soon. Certainly not in time to turn the Ukraine conflict around. And still guys like Rutte and Milley want to send more tanks into the battlefield. These people need psychiatric assistance. As do the next tranches of Ukraine cannon fodder. What we, the collective west, are providing Ukraine with, is not a chance at winning a war, but a mind boggingly huge assisted suicide program. And we, NATO citizens, should ask ourselves if we want to be part of that. If you live in NATO/EU territory, this is now on your conscience. No escaping anymore. They speak and act in your name. You can no longer claim innocence.

How many more young Ukrainians are left for you to kill? The “400,000 dead young Ukrainians” number comes from US military veterans like Scott Ritter and Douglas Macgregor. Maybe it’s “only” 350,000. But that included all their most experienced and trained soldiers. Their replacements are nowhere near as good. How many of those? I’d guess 100,000, 200,000 at best. While Russia just finished properly training 300,000 over an 8-month period, Kiev picked up kids and 65-year olds from the street, gave them a 2-week crash course, and dumped them at a frontline.

But you know what’s the worst thing here, and that I haven’t even mentioned? Nobody on the US/NATO/Kiev side, when confronted with those numbers among Ukrainians, ever mentions peace talks. No-one. The reason is that they would have to admit Russia’s won and NATO lost. Not just Ukraine lost, but NATO. And that is unthinkable. Consider what that would mean for the close to $1 trillion a year US arms industry, Raytheon, Boeing etc. They would never -voluntarily- admit it. Hey, they make more profit than they have in decades… What’s another 100,000 Ukrainian assisted suicides? I grew up thinking that every human life matters.
**

Source:
Assisted Suicide | theautomaticearth.com
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Helping Ukrainian NAZI's exercise their rabid hate of Russians....which is one of the reasons they so often shell civilians.

The Russians dont.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
Helping Ukrainian NAZI's exercise their rabid hate of Russians....which is one of the reasons they so often shell civilians.

The Russians dont.
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I think that's true too. But there's a lot of pushback on the idea that there's still a strong neo nazi bent in a lot of the Ukrainian military. But the western mainstream media says it's the Russians doing all that type of thing and most here tend to believe it, so I've let that one go for now.

I think it's easier to point out that the Ukrainians aren't going to win and giving them more weapons and pretending that that will get them to win is just going to contribute to their death toll.
 
Tinkerpeach said:
Biden is weak and Putin knows this.

He is not afraid of him.

Hell Biden said right away that we wouldn't engage the Russians, what leader would ever say some shit like that.
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Biden saying that may have been the only reason this hasn't escalated into a nuclear war. Playing a game of chicken when both sides has nukes is ridiculously foolhardy. It's fortunate that Biden has at least a -bit- of wisdom here. All of this reminds me a lot of the Cuban Missile Crisis, only this time it's the U.S. and NATO who are in Russia's face, and it's not like Russia can make some secret deal like the U.S. did back then to the tune of taking some nukes off of the U.S.'s front door if the U.S. and NATO stop prolonging this war by keeping Ukraine's war effort on life support.

As far as I can see, the only way this world doesn't become a nuclear waste land is if the U.S. and NATO finally realize that the best solution is to finally come to some type of security agreement with Russia, which will most likely entail what's left of Ukraine not joining NATO and also letting Russia keep the territory it's acquired.
 
Phoenyx said:
I think that's true too. But there's a lot of pushback on the idea that there's still a strong neo nazi bent in a lot of the Ukrainian military. But the western mainstream media says it's the Russians doing all that type of thing and most here tend to believe it, so I've let that one go for now.

I think it's easier to point out that the Ukrainians aren't going to win and giving them more weapons and pretending that that will get them to win is just going to contribute to their death toll.
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As the regime criminalizes everything Russian. I am well aware that most Americans have no idea what is going on in Ukraine, that they believe what American government and media tell them. We even have America Generals spouting pure fiction, and they largely get away with it.

I wonder if it was like this as Rome died.
 
Tinkerpeach said:
Hawkeye10 said:
It is all of the West that is weak (dying actually)....China and their friends are fully aware which is why they are going for the jugular now.
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It reminds you of the West when Hitler began his march doesn't it?

They didn't do anything but provide some monetary support and fluffy words.

How many people died because of that?
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It seems you think that Russia would by analogous to Nazi Germany. I see it more the other way around- that it's the U.S. that is now more analogous to Nazi Germany, with Ukraine simply being a pawn in its game. Fortunately, it seems that the U.S. isn't yet so foolish as to use the nuclear option here. Hopefully it never will be.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
As the regime criminalizes everything Russian. I am well aware that most Americans have no idea what is going on in Ukraine, that they believe what American government and media tell them. We even have America Generals spouting pure fiction, and they largely get away with it.

I wonder if it was like this as Rome died.
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Could be. I don't think the U.S. is quite at the point that Rome was at when it fell though. Perhaps another decade or 2? Hard to tell at this point.
 
Phoenyx said:
I believe that's what will happen as well. The alternative could mean Armaggedon.
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The children who run Washington are finally trying to negotiate a way out, thing is the Russians have no interest until the Americans accept reality, which they are currently far from.

In a high-level example of the back-channel diplomacy taking place behind the scenes, Russian Foreign Affairs Minister Sergey Lavrov met with members of the group for several hours in April in New York, four former officials and two current officials said.
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https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/...-ukraine-talks-russians-war-ukraine-rcna92610
 
Phoenyx said:
No, I just explained why NATO, despite being a mortal threat to Russia,
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Huh? In what way? They won't put up with Russia invading a member of the alliance? Well if you consider that a threat to Russia I guess you're as paranoid as Putin.
Phoenyx said:
is deciding not to take things to that level. It could very well mean the annihilation of mankind. Fortunately, there are still a few cooler heads in NATO.
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A few??? The infamous war pig, John McCain was the only politician in the U.S. or the world for that matter that I could ever remember advocating war with Russia. FFS, he didn't see a potential war he didn't like. He was a madman.
Russia for sure has their share of those types. There was talk of taking back Alaska by some of them at the beginning of the war. Fortunately, there are still a few cooler heads in Russia.

Phoenyx said:
That may be what they tell people, but the truth is if NATO vis a vis its strongest member, the U.S., had kept its word to not expand NATO one inch east of Germany, not to mention the U.S.'s role in the coup of the former Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych, this whole war would probably not have occurred.
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There's really no point in discussing this topic with you anymore.
It's like two different people see the same animal and one swears he's seeing a giraffe, the other swears he sees an elephant.

Let's do this for a change...
How would you like to see this conflict end? No, forget that, I'm pretty sure I know the answer to that. Realistically what would be, to you, an acceptable negotiated end to the war?
 
Phoenyx said:
Could be. I don't think the U.S. is quite at the point that Rome was at when it fell though. Perhaps another decade or 2? Hard to tell at this point.
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America is unrecognizable from just 3-4 years ago....go walk through some of our cities.....this is collapse.
 
Phoenyx said:
Biden saying that may have been the only reason this hasn't escalated into a nuclear war. Playing a game of chicken when both sides has nukes is ridiculously foolhardy. It's fortunate that Biden has at least a -bit- of wisdom here. All of this reminds me a lot of the Cuban Missile Crisis, only this time it's the U.S. and NATO who are in Russia's face, and it's not like Russia can make some secret deal like the U.S. did back then to the tune of taking some nukes off of the U.S.'s front door if the U.S. and NATO stop prolonging this war by keeping Ukraine's war effort on life support.

As far as I can see, the only way this world doesn't become a nuclear waste land is if the U.S. and NATO finally realize that the best solution is to finally come to some type of security agreement with Russia, which will most likely entail what's left of Ukraine not joining NATO and also letting Russia keep the territory it's acquired.
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Ukraine has been at war with the Russians in the Donbas region since 2014, this is not Russia's fault.

Russia has negotiated 29 ceasefires all broken by Ukraine.

They finally had enough.
 
Tinkerpeach said:
Ukraine has been at war with the Russians in the Donbas region since 2014, this is not Russia's fault.

Russia has negotiated 29 ceasefires all broken by Ukraine.

They finally had enough.
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And the West spent all those years building up the Ukrainian military for the purpose of going after Russians....our leaders hate of the Russians is no better than that of the Banderas. We are on the wrong side, which will get charged by the new sheriff in town, the Han. They have long memories.
 
After the fall of the Soviet Union the Failed Elite Class was well along in their program of raping Russia. Putin put an end to that.....that is where the hate comes from for the most part....we are the rapist who got told no and got dismissed.
 
anonymoose said:
Huh? In what way? They won't put up with Russia invading a member of the alliance? Well if you consider that a threat to Russia I guess you're as paranoid as Putin. A few??? The infamous war pig, John McCain was the only politician in the U.S. or the world for that matter that I could ever remember advocating war with Russia. FFS, he didn't see a potential war he didn't like. He was a madman.
Russia for sure has their share of those types. There was talk of taking back Alaska by some of them at the beginning of the war. Fortunately, there are still a few cooler heads in Russia.


There's really no point in discussing this topic with you anymore.
It's like two different people see the same animal and one swears he's seeing a giraffe, the other swears he sees an elephant.

Let's do this for a change...
How would you like to see this conflict end? No, forget that, I'm pretty sure I know the answer to that. Realistically what would be, to you, an acceptable negotiated end to the war?
Click to expand...

It doesn't matter what anyone wants because the outcome was decided before the war began.

Two options. Nuclear war or the Ukraine is partitioned.
 
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