As student scores plummet, teachers unions play politics and make them worse

[Lionfish]

 

[archives]

That was one of dozens of such rooms. Why not do a tiny bit of research before saying stupid shit like that? There are literally thousands of upon thousands of mediocre and incompetent teachers nationwide. Troublemakers are far fewer in number.

So now a thousand or two supposed mediocre teachers characterized the entire three million public school teachers in America, you just again proved my point

 

[archives]

It is because of the unions no one wants to be a teacher

Of which you’ve offered zero proof, typical

 

[archives]

Typical Democrat lie. Why do teachers still complain about wages even with the unions. Unions are about the Democrat party and the party agenda which means indoctrination above all things so wages are not important to the unions

Not a lie, teachers are generally paid low, and, in States as Kentucky, plus others, the State f*cks around with their pensions

 

[archives]

A question: What's your position on school systems promoting racial and gender equality in hiring and retaining teachers?

Here we go again, just like finding an example or two to discredit the three million public school teachers, here the poster will respond with some district somewhere that did such and generalize it to portray all school systems

 

[archives]

That's because you're not in the classroom...I believe you know how I feel about the unions, particularly NEA....
One of the best parts of retirement was parting ways with the unions...We need new leadership and representation in our schools...desperately...

The NEA doesn’t have control over the local teacher union in negotiating contracts or arbitrating grievances

 

[archives]

Indeed!

Teachers were our heroes, deservedly so. There were no unions in our schools.

There was no teaching of sexual perversion and divisive “oppressed “ and “oppressors” to six year olds, or males in little girls’ school restrooms.

The left has done this.

And tell us “earl,” how many of the close to 100,000 public schools in America “teach sexual perversion and divisive “oppressed “ and “oppressors” to six year olds, or males in little girls’ school restrooms.”

Thought so

 

[archives]

Only those addicted to Fox believe that bullshit

 

[Earl]

And tell us “earl,” how many of the close to 100,000 public schools in America “teach sexual perversion and divisive “oppressed “ and “oppressors” to six year olds, or males in little girls’ school restrooms.”

Thought so

In Virginia, the state was flipped from blue to red due to teaching sexual perversion and divisive "oppressed and "oppressors" to six year olds or males in little girls' school restrooms.

It happened in other states too, Anchovies. There have been numerous threads on this forum, some were mine.

 

[TOP]

The NEA doesn’t have control over the local teacher union in negotiating contracts or arbitrating grievances

I didn't say anything about locally... we Paid Dues to them all ...NEA is an embarassment...
So is AFT... Are you a teacher or a retired teacher? Do you disagree with what I said about America needing new leadership and representation in schools?

 

[TOP]

And tell us “earl,” how many of the close to 100,000 public schools in America “teach sexual perversion and divisive “oppressed “ and “oppressors” to six year olds, or males in little girls’ school restrooms.”

Thought so

Is there a public school where that possibility does not exist these days? Why should that be a concern?

 

[Phantasmal]

I didn't say anything about locally... we Paid Dues to them all ...NEA is an embarassment...
So is AFT... Are you a teacher or a retired teacher? Do you disagree with what I said about America needing new leadership and representation in schools?

And yet, you brag of your great retirement package, which you have, thanks to your union.
Union leaders are chosen by teachers, so why is the leadership so awful? Why don’t you run and straighten things out? Why don’t you organize for better leadership?

 

[TOP]

And yet, you brag of your great retirement package, which you have, thanks to your union.
Union leaders are chosen by teachers, so why is the leadership so awful? Why don’t you run and straighten things out? Why don’t you organize for better leadership?

That's a one in a kind package isn't it.... unfortunately not a great ending salary but I'm not complaining... I do believe that we were all worth much more than we were being paid for professionals who had been in the classroom for 30 plus years... For the most part , however, the unions were useless and wasted a lot of time and money... Union Leader election s are a joke ... just political assignments... why would I run for a position in an organization that I did not believe in... and whose top priorities were never really teachers or students and still aren't to this day... our schools wouldn't be in such horrible shape if we had effective unions... teaching salaries would be amazing support would be there the kids would be doing wonderfully and all would be well... guess they're not doing such a great job after all are they? Funny we're talking about unions on the day our teachers headed back to the classroom many of them not even sure what building they would be in at 7:00 this morning... and apparently calls to the union reps went ignored... we were just chatting about that an hour ago...

 

[NiftyNiblick]

That's a one in a kind package isn't it.... unfortunately not a great ending salary but I'm not complaining... I do believe that we were all worth much more than we were being paid for professionals who had been in the classroom for 30 plus years... For the most part , however, the unions were useless and wasted a lot of time and money... Union Leader election s are a joke ... just political assignments... why would I run for a position in an organization that I did not believe in... and whose top priorities were never really teachers or students and still aren't to this day... our schools wouldn't be in such horrible shape if we had effective unions... teaching salaries would be amazing support would be there the kids would be doing wonderfully and all would be well... guess they're not doing such a great job after all are they? Funny we're talking about unions on the day our teachers headed back to the classroom many of them not even sure what building they would be in at 7:00 this morning... and apparently calls to the union reps went ignored... we were just chatting about that an hour ago...

1. Unions are more effective in blue states than in red ones.
2. If the membership thinks that the union is a third party and not they, the workers or teachers themselves,

they will never get the most out of being represented.

 

[Phantasmal]

That's a one in a kind package isn't it.... unfortunately not a great ending salary but I'm not complaining... I do believe that we were all worth much more than we were being paid for professionals who had been in the classroom for 30 plus years... For the most part , however, the unions were useless and wasted a lot of time and money... Union Leader election s are a joke ... just political assignments... why would I run for a position in an organization that I did not believe in... and whose top priorities were never really teachers or students and still aren't to this day... our schools wouldn't be in such horrible shape if we had effective unions... teaching salaries would be amazing support would be there the kids would be doing wonderfully and all would be well... guess they're not doing such a great job after all are they? Funny we're talking about unions on the day our teachers headed back to the classroom many of them not even sure what building they would be in at 7:00 this morning... and apparently calls to the union reps went ignored... we were just chatting about that an hour ago...

So, why don’t you elect better representatives? Why don’t you run? Why do you only complain, that doesn’t seem effective.

 

[TOP]

1. Unions are more effective in blue states than in red ones.
2. If the membership thinks that the union is a third party and not they, the workers or teachers themselves,

they will never get the most out of being represented.

Well, many of us think that... because they basically are a third party... I'm horrified at the presentations given by the heads of NEA and AFT... One of my best friends was a union rep for as long as I can remember... we still didn't get the raises that we should have or the support that we needed... and it got worse as I got closer to retirement... she never could quite explain why things never really improved or changed but she went to a lot of conventions...

 

[T. A. Gardner]

Well, many of us think that... because they basically are a third party... I'm horrified at the presentations given by the heads of NEA and AFT... One of my best friends was a union rep for as long as I can remember... we still didn't get the raises that we should have or the support that we needed... and it got worse as I got closer to retirement... she never could quite explain why things never really improved or changed but she went to a lot of conventions...

Maybe because in a normal world, a business hands out raises and bonuses for improved performance and productivity. That is, in the case of schools, they are turning out better educated, more productive, graduates who go on to be successful. Like it or not, that is measurable. But it isn't happening in most of US public education. So, why should raises and bonuses be handed to teachers and others in public education if the results are mediocre?

Raises and bonuses follow results, not the other way around which is what the teacher's unions are demanding. That is the unions and champions of public education are saying If you give teachers huge raises and bonuses, they'll produce a better product... Well, that's pretty much complete bullshit. The same teachers as before the raises are doing the same stuff the same way after the raises.

Fix the outcomes, raise standards, and produce a better product and raises and bonuses will follow.

 

[NiftyNiblick]

Well, many of us think that... because they basically are a third party... I'm horrified at the presentations given by the heads of NEA and AFT... One of my best friends was a union rep for as long as I can remember... we still didn't get the raises that we should have or the support that we needed... and it got worse as I got closer to retirement... she never could quite explain why things never really improved or changed but she went to a lot of conventions...

If I believed what you believe, TOP, I would have to also believe that my life wasn't worth living.
Most of the good that I did for my fellow citizens was as a union rep.

The union is like a third party when the members aren't militant enough
and don't have sufficient solidarity with one another to makes themselves a formidable force.

If you're a political conservative, you simply don't have the requisite core life values to be a good union member,
and you should probably choose a vocation that isn't collectively represented.

Much of my quality of life is attributable to my union

and the fact that unions aren't what they were in my day

[because frankly, people aren't what they were in my day]

is one reason why I don't envy the working class of the future.

My kids were wise in choosing not to have kids.
I'm genuinely grateful to them.

 

[TOP]

So, why don’t you elect better representatives? Why don’t you run? Why do you only complain, that doesn’t seem effective.

Because the same people were always elected... and I didn't have time or desire to run... I was too busy teaching and coaching and raising a family... that keeps you busy you know? I didn't complain... and I paid my dues every year.... I'm complaining now because I have more time and realize that things could have been much much better and how now things are much much worse than they've ever been... teachers and kids deserve better.... don't you agree?

 

[TOP]

If I believed what you believe, TOP, I would have to also believe that my life wasn't worth living.
Most of the good that I did for my fellow citizens was as a union rep.

The union is like a third party when the members aren't militant enough
and don't have sufficient solidarity with one another to makes themselves a formidable force.

If you're a political conservative, you simply don't have the requisite core life values to be a good union member,
and you should probably choose a vocation that isn't collectively represented.

Much of my quality of life is attributable to my union

and the fact that unions aren't what they were in my day

[because frankly, people aren't what they were in my day]

is one reason why I don't envy the working class of the future.

My kids were wise in choosing not to have kids.
I'm genuinely grateful to them.

And your union may have been very different than ours I would hope that to be true... I'm not against unions in general... I just know what I experienced as a teacher and what I'm seeing now... we've discussed this before...it's a good thing you chose to do what you did and that I chose to do what I did... and neither of us would have ever done anything differently... I chose the right vocation and it sounds like you did too... that's all that's important.... I'm not sure what you mean by a good union member... I wonder what I didn't do that I should have been doing according to you... I didn't cross a strike line... I was a team player I cooked for everyone...what "requisite core values" was I missing?