And poof Biden's candidacy is gone.

christiefan915 said:
Cherry picking this from the article: "But young progressives remain unconvinced of their government’s commitment to safeguarding the innocent. If that continues, the winning Biden 2020 coalition is at greater risk of fracturing — and in the process, making Donald Trump’s return to the White House more likely."

If trump returns to the WH because of this, it's a bad reason IMO. It would seem that young progressives have no memory of trump's hatred for Muslims, Muslim ban, anti-Muslim rhetoric etc. If they're committed to safeguarding the innocent it's not going to come from trump.
Click to expand...

It's forever the conundrum of basically being told you have only two people to choose from. A lot of people hold their nose and vote for the party, or individual, that is in theory closer to what they believe. But clearly there are people who don't subscribe to that.

I'll offer this analogy. In 2008 a lot of people voted FOR Barack Obama. In 2020 far fewer voted FOR Joe Biden. Many voted AGAINST Trump. That obviously worked in 2020 but no guarantee it will work in 2024. My observation is young people are more idealistic and thus if the candidate is not standing for their values (in this case standing against the oppressor, Israel, and standing for the oppressed, Palestinians they may not support them (in this case Biden).
 
ExpressLane said:
Democrats killing Democrats is a good thing????
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I thought that the reference was to Israelis killing Palestinians.

Just the same,
there's nothing new about Democrats killing Democrats.

I wish we had the solidarity that you psychotic pachys have
but we all know that we don't.
 
christiefan915 said:
Cherry picking this from the article: "But young progressives remain unconvinced of their government’s commitment to safeguarding the innocent. If that continues, the winning Biden 2020 coalition is at greater risk of fracturing — and in the process, making Donald Trump’s return to the White House more likely."

If trump returns to the WH because of this, it's a bad reason IMO. It would seem that young progressives have no memory of trump's hatred for Muslims, Muslim ban, anti-Muslim rhetoric etc. If they're committed to safeguarding the innocent it's not going to come from trump.
Click to expand...

I'll also add I understand the thoughts of those people. I'm a lifelong Republican and I did not vote for my party's Presidential candidate in either of the last two elections. Oh, I heard it all from my Republican friends, "do you not know how bad Hillary and Biden are?" "Even if you don't agree with Trump on everything you can't let Clinton and Biden back into the White House" etc. etc. etc.

I don't disagree in any way with them about Clinton and Biden in office. But that still wasn't going to make me vote for Trump and I won't in '24 if he's the candidate. I've been complimented for sticking with my beliefs and I've been told I'm a P.O.S. and a fvcking idiot who is responsible for the downfall of our country. To each his own how they view it. But point being, there are clearly people out there who want to vote FOR someone not just against someone else.
 
cawacko said:
I'll also add I understand the thoughts of those people. I'm a lifelong Republican and I did not vote for my party's Presidential candidate in either of the last two elections. Oh, I heard it all from my Republican friends, "do you not know how bad Hillary and Biden are?" "Even if you don't agree with Trump on everything you can't let Clinton and Biden back into the White House" etc. etc. etc.

I don't disagree in any way with them about Clinton and Biden in office. But that still wasn't going to make me vote for Trump and I won't in '24 if he's the candidate. I've been complimented for sticking with my beliefs and I've been told I'm a P.O.S. and a fvcking idiot who is responsible for the downfall of our country. To each his own how they view it. But point being, there are clearly people out there who want to vote FOR someone not just against someone else.
Click to expand...

Yah, that's what I hear on the board when I tell them I am not voting for Trump. Even if this was an election where he was the only candidate I'd vote for someone else. LOL
 
cawacko said:
I'll also add I understand the thoughts of those people. I'm a lifelong Republican and I did not vote for my party's Presidential candidate in either of the last two elections. Oh, I heard it all from my Republican friends, "do you not know how bad Hillary and Biden are?" "Even if you don't agree with Trump on everything you can't let Clinton and Biden back into the White House" etc. etc. etc.

I don't disagree in any way with them about Clinton and Biden in office. But that still wasn't going to make me vote for Trump and I won't in '24 if he's the candidate. I've been complimented for sticking with my beliefs and I've been told I'm a P.O.S. and a fvcking idiot who is responsible for the downfall of our country. To each his own how they view it. But point being, there are clearly people out there who want to vote FOR someone not just against someone else.
Click to expand...

Which of Trump's POLICIES did you disagree with (Personality not included)
 
NiftyNiblick said:
I thought that the reference was to Israelis killing Palestinians.

Just the same,
there's nothing new about Democrats killing Democrats.

I wish we had the solidarity that you psychotic pachys have
but we all know that we don't.
Click to expand...

So you think that the majority of Jews vote Republican . And you think the majority of pro Palestinians are Republicans :thinking: Interesting.
 
ExpressLane said:
I'd prefer that Biden runs but what the Democrats do or don't do isn't in my control. If they are smart they would dump Biden but no one ever has accused Democrats of being smart.
Click to expand...
There is a campaign "update" coming shortly.... apparently there is difficulty rearranging the six people with signs...that's holding things up...
 
ExpressLane said:
So you think that the majority of Jews vote Republican . And you think the majority of pro Palestinians are Republicans :thinking: Interesting.
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Jesus, Breakdown,

I didn't say anything to suggest either of those things.

Most Jews vote Democratic but perhaps not by a huge majority anymore.

Most pro-Palestinians are Democrats, and it's one of the things dividing our party badly right now.
It could be what gives the pachys a good chance in 2024.

I am a solidly pro-Israel Democrat.
 
Cypress said:
You posted an opinion piece, not a straight news article.
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An opinion widely shared by people who probably don't know or don't remember that Obama, Bush and Clinton were all behind at this point in their reelection campaigns.
 
Damocles said:
Yah, that's what I hear on the board when I tell them I am not voting for Trump. Even if this was an election where he was the only candidate I'd vote for someone else. LOL
Click to expand...

It would be helpful if all the repubs who say they don't like trump and are not voting for him would stop defending him, believing his lies and making excuses for him.

You guys are sending mixed messages, that's why people think you'll vote for trump even if you say otherwise.
 
ExpressLane said:
I'd prefer that Biden runs but what the Democrats do or don't do isn't in my control. If they are smart they would dump Biden but no one ever has accused Democrats of being smart.
Click to expand...

Way back in 2020 there were articles that Biden should step aside, like this perspective from WaPo.

Biden should step aside. We can’t sacrifice another woman for political gain.


Also, repugs excoriated Biden for not going out on the campaign trail during the pandemic, and ridiculed him for "running a campaign from his basement."

It's a long time between now and the next election, too long to use today's polls as predictors. Despite all the trash-talking Biden got from repugs and some Dems in 2020, he still managed to win handily against trump. So your thread title "And poof! Biden's candidacy is gone" is just so much wishful thinking at this point.
 
christiefan915 said:
It would be helpful if all the repubs who say they don't like trump and are not voting for him would stop defending him, believing his lies and making excuses for him.

You guys are sending mixed messages, that's why people think you'll vote for trump even if you say otherwise.
Click to expand...

I'm making this as a general statement, not directed at you personally, to your comment. A lot of people have a very black and white mindset in politics. It's all or nothing. The idea you cannot vote for someone yet still support something they do, or think they got a raw deal, isn't an option. Or you can vote for someone but not support everything they do, again doesn't seem to be an option for those with a ride or die attitude.

I'll offer an example. I read the WSJ editorial page. It is clearly right-leaning. Yet they are also not supporters of Trump. That being said they aren't afraid to say they agree with Trump on certain policies or stances he takes or that the Democrats/Prosecutors have gone too far in going after him on certain things.

It works the same in reverse, they are clearly not big fans of Biden. That doesn't stop them from backing his rhetoric supporting Israel (for example).

I don't see anything inconsistent in either of those stances.
 
cawacko said:
I'm making this as a general statement, not directed at you personally, to your comment. A lot of people have a very black and white mindset in politics. It's all or nothing. The idea you cannot vote for someone yet still support something they do, or think they got a raw deal, isn't an option. Or you can vote for someone but not support everything they do, again doesn't seem to be an option for those with a ride or die attitude.

I'll offer an example. I read the WSJ editorial page. It is clearly right-leaning. Yet they are also not supporters of Trump. That being said they aren't afraid to say they agree with Trump on certain policies or stances he takes or that the Democrats/Prosecutors have gone too far in going after him on certain things.

It works the same in reverse, they are clearly not big fans of Biden. That doesn't stop them from backing his rhetoric supporting Israel (for example).

I don't see anything inconsistent in either of those stances.
Click to expand...

What I find inconsistent are statements such as "I don't like trump but he's right, the election was stolen," or "I don't like trump but all these prosecutions of him are a witch hunt," or "yeah, trump may have thrown his advisors X, Y, Z under the bus but they deserved it for their disloyalty and they were never any good anyhow." Any statement about how they really don't like trump's personality, for instance, is always preceded by a "but."

I haven't seen any JPP Dems doing that about RFK Jr.'s campaign, for example. We don't like him and aren't making excuses for it.
 
cawacko said:
Without going into the weeds, the two biggest reasons I didn't vote for him in 2016 were his views on trade and his racial rhetoric.
Click to expand...

Respectfully would you be more specific. Do you think allowing China to dump steel on the US market was a good thing. And what racial rhetoric are you speaking about? Are you aware minority voting for Trump increased in 2016 and polls say they are increasing yet again. Are you aware Trump increased funding to Black colleges. And Trump approved Opportunity Zones in majority Black and Brown neighborhoods. But what racial rhetoric are you specifically objecting to.
 
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