Time to reform Social Security

[Into the Night]

OMG. You are a complete idiot.
By law the excess money collected from FICA must be invested in US securities and at the current rate of return for US bonds.

https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/110614/how-social-security-trust-fund-invested.aspf

What isn't paid out to current SS recipients is loaned to the US because they don't collect enough income taxes and used to help balance the budget.
Currently the government general fund owes the SS trust fund (OASI) 2.8 trillion dollars that they don't have the means to pay back without raising income taxes.
https://www.ssa.gov/policy/trust-funds-summary.html

Paradox. Irrational. You cannot claim there is an 'excess' and not an 'excess' at the same time!

 

[Into the Night]

SS was and continues to be a very popular, successful program. If SS is a ponzi scheme then literally every tax is a ponzi scheme. Keeping the elderly out of poverty is just as useful to me as having roads to drive to work on.

False equivalence fallacy. Roads are not welfare payments to unproductive people.

 

[Jarod]

To?

I dont know, but we are living longer and working longer.

 

[Yakuda]

Why is it a problem if 20 million people can't afford to pay their mortgage or their rent or their property taxes?
I can't fix your stupid.

No one should need to rely on SS for the majority of their retirement income but many people do.
And yet, the conservatives whined and moaned when Obama wanted to make 401K plans opt out instead opt in.

I didn't say it wasn't a problem shithead I said it's not my problem and I should be paying to keep them in their house. I also said the ponzi scheme (SS) clearly was not, is it and wont ever be a very fucking good idea. Keep the fuck up dunce boy.

 

[Into the Night]

I see you think increasing homelessness and crime isn't your problem.

THAT is caused by DEMOCRATS, Sock.

 

[Poor Richard Saunders]

I didn't say it wasn't a problem shithead I said it's not my problem and I should be paying to keep them in their house. I also said the ponzi scheme (SS) clearly was not, is it and wont ever be a very fucking good idea. Keep the fuck up dunce boy.

So, it isn't your problem when they camp on your doorstep?
It isn't your problem when they steal from you because they need to eat?

I can't fix your stupid.

 

[Althea]

The reduction in benefits is calculated based on life expectancy.
If you expect to live past the expected life expectancy then taking SS is better.
Current life expectancy is about 79.
If your full SS is 2500 per month at 67 and 70% of that at 62 then at age 79 you will have received $360,000 by waiting until 67 and $357,000 by taking it at 62. If you live to 90 you will have received over 100,000 more by waiting until you are 67.

The big question is, how is your health and how long do you expect to live. If you are in good health, have the financial ability, and expect to live to a ripe old age you are better off waiting.

It also matters if you are still working at 62, and how much you earn. They will withhold money if you earn over app. $18,000/year if you are still working at 62. Assuming you can keep the earnings you show below that number at 62:

If your full SSI would be 2000/month (of course, once you hit 65 they start taking out money for Medicare) at 66 1/2, then you would start collecting a little more than $1400/month at 62. You get paid app 72% of the full amount.

Rough numbers, if you start taking full payments at 66 1/2 it will take you a little more than 10 years to break even.

So at 76 1/2 you will be realizing app 28% less/month than you would have if you waited. That doesn't factor in COLA raises each year, and the fact that you had a good chunk of money to invest as you wish for 4 1/2 years.

It's a personal decision for everyone. I know people who planned to work to 65 and dropped dead mere months before retirement. SSI is not going to fully support anyone in retirement, but it helps.

 

[Poor Richard Saunders]

It also matters if you are still working at 62, and how much you earn. They will withhold money if you earn over app. $18,000/year if you are still working at 62. Assuming you can keep the earnings you show below that number at 62:

If your full SSI would be 2000/month (of course, once you hit 65 they start taking out money for Medicare) at 66 1/2, then you would start collecting a little more than $1400/month at 62. You get paid app 72% of the full amount.

Rough numbers, if you start taking full payments at 66 1/2 it will take you a little more than 10 years to break even.

So at 76 1/2 you will be realizing app 28% less/month than you would have if you waited. That doesn't factor in COLA raises each year, and the fact that you had a good chunk of money to invest as you wish for 4 1/2 years.

It's a personal decision for everyone. I know people who planned to work to 65 and dropped dead mere months before retirement. SSI is not going to fully support anyone in retirement, but it helps.

I already pointed out the break even point is at age 79.
They take out Medicare at 65 but if you retire at 62 you are paying for private insurance or hoping you don't have any medical issues for 3 years.

 

[Mr.Badguy]

False equivalence fallacy. Roads are not welfare payments to unproductive people.

So elderly retired people that paid into SS with their years of labor are "unproductive"? Elderly with children that grew up to enter the labor force and pay taxes are "unproductive"? Even people without jobs get to use the roads.

 

[NiftyNiblick]

Instead of discussing the weakening
of an already inadequate public sector and social safety net,
why don't we address an underregulated AND undertaxed private sector instead?

If we miraculously do find a way to save this republic,
that would absolutely HAVE to be the first step.

 

[Phyllis Diller]

Instead of discussing the weakening
of an already inadequate public sector and social safety net,
why don't we address an underregulated AND undertaxed private sector instead?

If we miraculously do find a way to save this republic,
that would absolutely HAVE to be the first step.

i'd love too.

do boeing and pfizer pay enough taxes?

are powerful corporate cartels controlling public policy fascism?

 

[NiftyNiblick]

i'd love too.

do boeing and pfizer pay enough taxes?

are powerful corporate cartels controlling public policy fascism?

Boeing and Pfizer tax documents are not published as far as I know,
but I would guess that they are seriously undertaxed.

Pharma shouldn't even be in the private sector as far as I'm concerned.
It should be nationalized and conducted without profit.

Government by the corporate oligarchy probably is a form of fascism.

The Trump-appointed SCOTUS is working on creating that right now, as we speak,
and you, as a trumpanzee, must own your share of the blame,
Asshat.

 

[RB 60]

So elderly retired people that paid into SS with their years of labor are "unproductive"? Elderly with children that grew up to enter the labor force and pay taxes are "unproductive"? Even people without jobs get to use the roads.

Only the productive pay into Social Security.

We pay local and fuel taxes that are supposed to pay for roads.

 

[Phyllis Diller]

Boeing and Pfizer tax documents are not published as far as I know,
but I would guess that they are seriously undertaxed.

Pharma shouldn't even be in the private sector as far as I'm concerned.
It should be nationalized and conducted without profit.

Government by the corporate oligarchy probably is a form of fascism.

yes.

it is quite fascism.

it's more internationalist now, but that's why we just call it internationalist fascism.

 

[Into the Night]

So elderly retired people that paid into SS with their years of labor are "unproductive"?

Yes.

Elderly with children that grew up to enter the labor force and pay taxes are "unproductive"?

Yes.

Even people without jobs get to use the roads.

Social Security does not pay for roads.

 

[Into the Night]

Instead of discussing the weakening
of an already inadequate public sector and social safety net,
why don't we address an underregulated AND undertaxed private sector instead?

If we miraculously do find a way to save this republic,
that would absolutely HAVE to be the first step.

Socialism doesn't work.

 

[Into the Night]

Boeing and Pfizer tax documents are not published as far as I know,

Both Boeing and Pfizer file public profit and loss statements and balance sheets. You can determine their taxes from those.

but I would guess that they are seriously undertaxed.

Why? Socialism doesn't work.

Pharma shouldn't even be in the private sector as far as I'm concerned.
It should be nationalized and conducted without profit.

Communism doesn't work.

Government by the corporate oligarchy probably is a form of fascism.

What 'government by corporate oligarchy'??????!? Corporations are NOT fascism.

The Trump-appointed SCOTUS is working on creating that right now, as we speak,

SCOTUS does not create companies, corporations, or any other business. An oligarchy is dictatorship by committee. That's a government, dude.

and you, as a trumpanzee, must own your share of the blame,
Asshat.

Blame for what? Your hallucinations?

 

[Into the Night]

yes.

it is quite fascism.

it's more internationalist now, but that's why we just call it internationalist fascism.

Corporations are not fascism. Redefinition fallacy.

 

[Phyllis Diller]

Corporations are not fascism. Redefinition fallacy.

the unity of big corporate and state power is fascism.

 

[Into the Night]

the unity of big corporate and state power is fascism.

Redefinition fallacy. Corporations are not fascism.

Fascism of government manipulation of markets. It is anti-business. It is based on theft. It is a form of socialism. Someday you should at least some of the writings of Karl Marx.