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Drug dealers and crooks wouldn't be paying taxes on the goods they sold, either, and a pretty significant smuggling industry would probably emerge to avoid the tax.
Answer to a failing economy: FAIR TAX!
- Thread starter Dixie - In Memoriam
- Start date
Drug dealers and crooks wouldn't be paying taxes on the goods they sold, either, and a pretty significant smuggling industry would probably emerge to avoid the tax.
Please, man. It’s the same snake oil Cons have been trying to sell for 40 years. They just rebranded it and repackaged it. Whether it applies to an income tax, or a sales tax, the consequences and intent are exactly the same. A redistribution of the tax burden away from wealth and corporation to working schmuks. Retooled and repackaged to appear brand spanking new.
There’s a reason no sane person, or rational country on the planet has adopted Dixie’s scheme. It would result in a black market plutocracy. And there’s zero evidence in the real world, that it leads to some sort of economic nirvana for a modern developed country.
First, unless Dixie is proposing a constitutionally dubious massive expansion of federal power, the Feds have no authority to dictate the tax systems of state and local jurisdictions. So on top of a 23% federal sales tax, you would also have to pay whatever state and local taxes and fees are needed to pay for local and state revenue that is independent of the federal budget.
So, what, are we going to be paying 30-35% tax on all consumer goods? PLUS the state income taxes or fees that the Feds have no authority to dictate or change?
Like I said, Dixie apparently wants a Russian black market plutocracy economy.
This is Dixie’s most hilarious pile of horseshit. So corporations don’t have to pay tax? Let me get this straight, Dixie wants corporations to have the legal rights of person per the SCOTUS ruling, BUT without any of the responsibilities of a person? Don’t corporations use our courts, our transportation infrastructure, our education system, and aren’t they protected by a massive global military prescence?
What kind of horseshit is that? Working schmucks pay 30% and corporations pay zero?
And what the f is this no taxation on investment income? Most of billionaires wealth is tied up in investments, the amount they spend annually on consumer products is a tiny fraction of the investment wealth they hold. So Dixie is blathering about a massive tax cut for the ultra wealthy.
So really, what kind of horseshit is this? Working schmucks get to pay a 23% national sales tax on everything they buy, PLUS they get to continue to pay all the local and state taxes and fees that the federal government has no authority to regulate?
WTF? It’s a massive tax cut on wealth, it’s reducing corporate taxes to zero, and increasing the share of the tax burden on working Americans.
Who the hell is down with that? There’s a freakin’ reason these flat tax schemes are found mostly in third world, black market plutocracies. It’s a transfer of the tax burden away from wealth, and onto working schmucks. And smarter, machivellean conservatives know it even if Dixie doesn’t.
Dixie - In Memoriam
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Drug dealers and crooks do indeed have to buy things, food, clothing, bling... they would be paying a BUNCH in taxes that they currently do not pay.
Sammy Jankis
Was it me?
"black market plutocracy", nice.
I'm commandeering that verbiage for the People's Populist Front (PPF).
Dixie - In Memoriam
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A tax on wealth can only discourage wealth. There is no other rational way to look at this. The problem with penalizing success is, it stifles success! When you lift these restrictions, you encourage more success, more wealth, more profit, more jobs, more sales, more sales tax, more sales tax revenues.
Until they generated a tax-free black market for food, clothing, and bling to go along with their drug dealing and general crookery.
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And right now, when they buy food, that money eventually makes its way into peoples paychecks, where it's taxed. People have to be paid more to make up for the tax, and that raises the price of drug dealers food.
The point is, under either system, the tax burden is definitely not shared equally.
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Yeah. Yeah.
All taxes have their negatives. There's no perfect tax. Especially the consumption tax. Obviously, lower consumption is just as bad for the economy as lower income. Lower income lowers your wealth, higher consumption prices lowers your wealth. There's nothing especially inherently evil about the wealth tax.
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This^
The fair tax will definitely result in a lower tax burden all around for drug dealers than the income tax.
Dixie - In Memoriam
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Not really. 40 years ago, an argument could be made that we were a productive nation, people worked to produce things in America, we had a fairly vibrant system of production, and taxation based on production was suitable for paying the bills. In the past few decades, we have moved away from being a production-based society... we don't make things anymore, we import things. People still work in service industries, and there is still some productivity, but by-and-large, we have become consumer-driven, and our economy is also consumer-driven, as opposed to the days of old, when we were largely production-driven. Times change, and we have changed, it is time for our tax system to change as well.
None of you have given one iota of reason for why the Fair Tax is not a viable solution to the economic problems we face. Not one! You continue to writhe and gyrate over some false precepts of how this would be a burden on the middle class, but you've really provided no evidence to support that assertion, and I don't believe you can. It's sheer emotionalism at play, and the very scary thought of you losing the "class envy" card you've been playing so well for so long! That's really all you have, and it has been clearly exposed here.
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God you're retarded. You don't think that those services count as productivity? You don't think when people CONSUME THOSE SERVICES it counts as production?
Sammy Jankis
Was it me?
Look dixie. It's a retail consumption tax. And every good noahide knows only schmucks pay retail. Rich people all have the hookup. Plus, rich people should be taxed more because society is tilted in their favor by the corruption of the state which helps perpetuate their advantage, and they simply cannot spend the vast majority of their wealth in a lifetime, and consumption is the only time taxation will occur. The majority of their wealth will just sit on ledgers to justify their right to control events as "owners".
Meanwhile regular people cannot even safely own property anymore due to the KELO decision.
Yes, it discourages the unproductive accumulation of wealth. It's not a tax on productivity. It does not discourage one from making more.
Wealth simply has to be put to a use that returns value at a rate equal to or greater than the tax rate. If it is not put to such use the wealth will slowly erode and probably be used in a more productive manner or at the very least will not be used in a drastically less productive manner, as is likely true with income or sales taxes.
I don't see how that is possible. The income a drug dealer makes is not taxed. While I agree it will increase black market activities, it is not likely that the drug dealer's every expenditure will be in the black market. So he would pay some taxes as opposed to none.
It may be true that more tax dollars will be lost to black market activity than with an income tax, though.
Dixie - In Memoriam
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See... this is the thing, I don't think it automatically follows that black markets would spring up everywhere. Sure, there would be some, there are some now! There will always be some people who try to cheat whatever the system, that can't be avoided and isn't currently being avoided. The notion that Fair Tax is going to price goods and services so high as to prompt all kinds of black markets, is baseless. As I said, most corporations will simply adjust pricing to 'absorb' the extra consumers tax, because they want to remain competitive. Market economics will still apply... more people will buy a suit for $199 than $239... it's just a matter of consumer perception, and retailers know this. Prices would go up at first, but not by 23%, and they wouldn't stay there, as soon as competitors saw an opportunity to gain business, they would reduce their prices and force others to do the same. A good example was presented earlier of the Airlines, and apparently, that was simply ignored by you guys.... it's a direct example of exactly what I am saying here, in practice, with a 'real world' scenario!
Dixie - In Memoriam
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You miss the point. I am not retarded, you are, but even the retarded can realize we are not a production-based nation anymore. Perhaps instead of "production" the more appropriate term would be "manufacturing" instead? A widget company which once hired 1500 employees to make widgets, now has 15 employees running a robot that makes widgets! Same company, same profits, same taxes from the corporate standpoint, but not nearly as much payroll tax being generated. A whole lot more people sitting on their asses, fat and happy, not concerned with "earning income" to be taxed by the government! Everyone is a consumer, everyone has to buy things, that can't be avoided, you can't opt out of buying stuff, it's inevitable. To change our tax system from a production-based system which relies on people working and earning incomes, to a consumer-based system where people pay tax based on what they spend, is a viable alternative to what we are presently doing, which simply isn't cutting the mustard. You can't just keep raising the corporate tax and taxing the wealthy, eventually, you tap out the resources, you stifle any potential growth, and discourage people from earning income at all.
Sammy Jankis
Was it me?
We should sculpt policy to return us to a manufacturing economy, not try to paper over the ravages of idiotic globalist policy with a stupid regressive tax scheme.
KingCondanomation
New member
I oppose a national sales tax, you have to look at other nations that tried it with the same promises of alieviating other taxes. Take Canada for instance when the Conservatives introduced the GST with that same goal Boortz talks about of eventually replacing the income tax.
Nearly 20 years later the GST is still there and income tax has never really come down.
In Australia the GST that Howard introduced reduced income tax but never replaced it and you can bet it will rise under the current Labor prime minister at some point.
Trusting a government on this is a bit like handing your torturer a cat o nine tails and telling him he then no longer needs to use the whip on you. In the end, to the one in power, it is just one more weapon you are giving them.
The real focus has to stay on spending cuts, if you want government to get off your back, you've got to get your hands out of its pocket. The rest will take care of itself.
Nearly 20 years later the GST is still there and income tax has never really come down.
In Australia the GST that Howard introduced reduced income tax but never replaced it and you can bet it will rise under the current Labor prime minister at some point.
Trusting a government on this is a bit like handing your torturer a cat o nine tails and telling him he then no longer needs to use the whip on you. In the end, to the one in power, it is just one more weapon you are giving them.
The real focus has to stay on spending cuts, if you want government to get off your back, you've got to get your hands out of its pocket. The rest will take care of itself.
KingCondanomation
New member
I think we should try and revert to a farming economy and let's go the whole hog and do subsistence farming, none of them job-taking machines for us. I mean hey, they lost their jobs before the manufacturing guys and we all know that was the point where life really started getting worse...
FUCK THE POLICE
911 EVERY DAY
Anything is possible in a paranoid universe where the government just wants to gobble up your money and throw it into a black hole. However, we live in reality, not danoland.
The "fair" tax would specifically abolish the income tax. It's not there to incrementally replace the system. The only way to get the income tax back would be to pass a bill raising taxes in that manner - good luck getting elected on this platform.