I agree. Germ theory is a historical name for the completely proven fact that many diseases are caused by germs. The competing theory in the 1800's was miasma theory.
Is the bird flu fake?
- Thread starter Jarod
- Start date
After reading your post as well as the response to it, I decided that the subject of the flu vaccine and this recently cancelled meeting deserved its own thread. If you're interested in taking a look, it's here:
Recently, there was some discussion of the fact that the FDA cancelled a meeting to select flu Strains for next season’s flu Vaccine in a thread on whether or not the bird flu was fake. I thought the subject deserved its own thread, so I'm making this one and we'll see how it goes. I found what I believe was quite a good article on the subject from Children's Health Defense, which can be seen here:
childrenshealthdefense.org
I should say from the get go that I no longer believe that biological viruses exist, so...
FDA Calls Off Meeting to Select Flu Strains for Next Season’s Flu Vaccine
The FDA on Monday sent members of its vaccine advisory committee an email canceling the meeting. The agency told CNN that it will “make public its recommendations to manufacturers in time for updated vaccines to be available for the 2025-2026 influenza season.”
childrenshealthdefense.org
I should say from the get go that I no longer believe that biological viruses exist, so...
According to people who aren't crazy and understand that vaccines work.Conspiracy theories aside.... the measles vaccine is THE reason for measles cases dropping from millions to virtually nothing today.That's certainly what the mainstream media would have you believe. The truth is somethihg else. A good article from Mike Stone on measles from a little over a year ago:
Here's the introduction to the article:
**
If you have been paying attention to recent headlines here in the US, you will notice that it is time once again for the measles magic show. In other words, it is time for virologists to pull the measles “virus” out of their hats so that it can rear its head in order to frighten the ignorant into allowing toxic injections into themselves and their children. While measles cases are said to occur in the US every year, the alarm bells rung by the CDC and within the mainstream media happens every so often when there needs to be a clamp down on anti-vaccine messaging as well as a push to increase vaccination rates. Remember the scary headlines alerting the people to a measles outbreak in Disneyland in 2014? It was the perfect set-up to strike down nonmedical vaccine exemptions that were increasing in California and elsewhere. The media focused on a “spread” through the unvaccinated population and highlighted vaccine hesitancy as a primary driver of the outbreak. This led to a “positive” outlook and support for vaccination.
Revisiting the 2014-15 Disneyland measles outbreak and its influence on pediatric vaccinations
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34495822/
However, the Disneyland Measles Massacre wasn't even the “main” measles “outbreak” in 2014. That distinction belongs to the Amish in Ohio where an “outbreak” was blamed on an Amish missionary who traveled to the Philippines. In the end, there were 382 Amish said to be “infected” with the measles “virus.” Not a single person died. Regardless, the missionary, who was originally diagnosed with dengue, was given the blame for being unvaccinated and bringing the measles “virus” back to spread amongst the unvaccinated. While this “outbreak” helped to clamp down on anti-vaccination sentiment riled up by Jenny McCarthy that year, it was the perfect vehicle to convince the masses that it is unvaccinated travelers bringing back diseases in from other countries. This is a theme that the CDC has utilized time and time again [snip]
**
I think what Mr. Stone says in his conclusion is quite interesting as well:
**
The CDC admits that it is difficult to diagnose any vaccinated person with measles due to the unreliability of the tests. Perhaps this is why most vaccinated individuals are presumed “immune” to measles and testing is saved for the unvaccinated? Regardless, the CDC acknowledges that even if a measles case is seen at a physician’s office, it is most likely not a “true” measles case even if it meets the clinical definition. The only reason to suspect measles is if the person is unvaccinated and came into contact with traveler's from abroad. Granted, the CDC does say that cases of “high suspicion” should be investigated. However, this is only if other causes have been ruled out first, such as parvovirus, dengue, Kawasaki disease, scarlet fever, and rubella.
The list of potential diagnoses for the same symptoms of disease is much longer than what the CDC provided. Going back to the MN Department of Health, a more comprehensive list of diseases, both “infectious” and “non-infectious,” presenting with measles-like symptoms is outlined. As these diseases all have similar features to measles, they all must be ruled out before a measles diagnosis can be made and “confirmed:”
“Providers should also consider other infectious and non-infectious etiologies that may cause fever and generalized rash, including:
As can be seen from the above information, we are left with quite a few preconditions that must be satisfied in order for a new measles outbreak to be declared.
- Rubella, Scarlet fever, Roseola infantum, Kawasaki disease, Erythema infectiosum (Fifth Disease), Coxsackievirus, Echovirus, Epstein-Barr virus, HIV, Pharyngoconjunctival fever, Influenza
- Dengue, Rocky Mountain spotted fever, Zika virus
- Dermatologic manifestations of Viral hemorrhagic fevers
- Toxic Shock Syndrome, cutaneous syphilis
- Drug reactions (e.g., antibiotics, contact dermatitis)
With these preconditions firmly established, it is easy to see how the CDC can manufacture and steer a measles outbreak so that it appears as if it was instigated from outside of the US and spread through the unvaccinated. All they need is to alert clinicians in order to have them identify anyone unvaccinated who presents with nonspecific symptoms, such as a fever and a rash, that may have recently been a traveler or been in contact with one. They can then use unreliable laboratory tests to “confirm” that the case is measles rather than any of the other identical conditions it would have been pegged as prior to the alert. If someone who is vaccinated slips through as a suspected case, they make it difficult to confirm them as a measles case by blaming the unreliable tests and the vaccinated status and/or the presumed “immunity.” Thus, a measles outbreak can be steered away from the vaccinated and pinned on any unvaccinated individual when they would have normally been diagnosed with any of the other conditions presenting with a fever, a maculopapular rash, and nonspecific symptoms of disease. Voila! The CDC gets to declare a measles “outbreak” in the unvaccinated instigated from contact coming outside from an “endemic” country. Now that the curtain has pulled back, and the trick has been exposed, it is time to cancel this magic show once and for all.
- The CDC must issue an alert for healthcare workers to start looking for measles cases.
- Testing should be limited to those who meet the case definition and are unvaccinated, have a recent history of travel abroad, and are without an alternate explanation for symptoms.
- Those with a history of previous measles “infection” or vaccination should be presumed to be “immune.”
- Many clinicians do not know what a measles case looks like, so clinical diagnosis is unreliable, and it must be “confirmed” via unreliable tests.
- The long list of similar diseases presenting with the same symptoms must be ruled out via differential diagnosis first before “confirming” a measles case.
- A suspected measles case in someone vaccinated must meet the clinical case definition and be linked to a laboratory case in order to be a “confirmed” case.
**
According to who?
Personal attacks tend to just add noise to a discussion. Aside from your statement being a personal attack, it sheds no light on who these people are. Perhaps you don't actually know?
Sigh... another unread wall of text.As I've said elsewhere, I have no objection to ensuring cleanliness in maternity wards and the operating room, far from it. The issue here is whether biological viruses exist and whether bacteria are truly as dangerous as the mainstream media would have us believe.
Pasteur is definitely a big reason that germ theory took hold, along with Robert Koch. Researcher Mike Stone wrote 2 articles on germ theory which delve into the evidence that germ theory is right. I've linked to them in the past, but since I doubt you'll even bother to open the first link, let alone the second, I'll just include the first for now:
Quoting from the introduction to this article:
**
According to the Encyclopaedia Britannica, the germ “theory” of disease, which states that certain diseases are caused by the invasion of the body by microorganisms too small to be seen, has “long been considered proved.” Harvard University says that the “theory” was “developed, proved, and popularized in Europe and North America between about 1850 and 1920.” Wikipedia claims that the germ “theory” of disease is “the currently accepted scientific theory for many diseases.” Papers published in scientific journals claim that Louis Pasteur and Robert Koch “firmly established the germ theory of disease” and that they “first proved the germ theory of disease in the second half of the nineteenth century.” Thus, if we were to listen to what the mainstream sources declare, it would appear that the germ “theory” of disease has been scientifically proven based upon the evidence established by Louis Pasteur and Robert Koch. We are to believe that the work of these two men allowed for the initial germ hypothesis to be “proven” in order to be elevated to the status of a scientific theory. However, is that truly the case? Did Pasteur and Koch provide the necessary scientific evidence required in order to confirm the germ hypothesis? What does it take to accept or reject a hypothesis? How does a hypothesis go on to become a scientific theory? In the first of a two-part examination of the germ hypothesis looking at the work of both men, we will begin by inspecting two of Pasteur's early attempts to prove his hypothesis in the cases of chicken cholera and rabies. We will investigate how he arrived at his germ hypothesis, and then look to see if his experimental evidence reflected anything that could be witnessed in nature. In doing so, we will find out whether or not Louis Pasteur was ever able to validate and confirm his germ hypothesis.
**
You consider a paragraph a "wall of text"? Not much for reading, are you?
I took a course in biology in high school. What's your point?
Computer viruses, sure. I've seen no solid evidence that biological viruses exist though. As I've mentioned previously, I started a thread on the subject of whether biological viruses exist a few years back here. It went on for a while. You're free to take a look at it if you'd actually like to get into why I've come to believe that they don't exist. It can be seen here:
We can certainly agree to that.
Have you ever considered the possibility that you yourself have been harming people with disinformation?
I never said I didn't believe in germs. I don't believe in germ -theory-. It's a different issue. Another more neutral term for germs is micro organisms.
You misunderstand what disbelieving in germ theory means. It doesn't mean that humans shouldn't try to be clean or drink and eat whatever.
Trust me, I wouldn't. I haven't gotten a vaccine in quite a long time. I believe they're all not just useless, but harmful. A book I found to be fairly good on the subject of vaccines:
ThatOwlWoman
Leftist Vermin
Dutch Uncle
* Tertia Optio * Defend the Constitution
The wackadoodles are the funniest part of JPP.
ThatOwlWoman
Leftist Vermin
The wackadoodles are the funniest part of JPP.
Seriously. I do get concerned about idiots like poor Scott spreading b.s. and misinformation about health issues. It truly can be dangerous, even deadly, as we saw in the pandemic. Hopefully, stating that he took biology in h.s. and believes there are no such thing as viruses should warn most ppl away from accepting his crazy shit. But if a random MAGAT or two buys into it and doesn't get vaxxed and gets sick -- oh well. Maybe they'll learn, the hard way.. lol
ZenMode
Well-known member
How would a person go about engaging in a discussion with someone who believes viruses don't exist and vaccines aren't the reason for viruses cases, like measles, greatly decreasing?
Again, you are starting the conversation by admitting you are not rational. There is nowhere to go. So you think birds don't exist also? Is the earth flat?
ZenMode
Well-known member
I'm concerned that Scott has kids.
ThatOwlWoman
Leftist Vermin
If he does I hope his wife is more intelligent and informed than he appears to be.
@Scott's rationale boils down to this.
Me: I don't believe in the Eiffel Tower. I've never seen it so it doesn't exist.
You: Here are some pictures of it.
Me: Anyone can fake pictures. (I produce a website stating that there's no such thing as the Eiffel Tower and all photos are faked.)
You: I went to Paris and saw it for myself.
Me: You just *thought* you did. People told you it was there and you believed them.
Dutch Uncle
* Tertia Optio * Defend the Constitution
It's a legitimate concern, but it's also an example of "Evolution in Action" since, like Trump's idea of using bleach to kill the COVID virus led to some dumbasses drinking or burning themselves with bleach.
It was so bad even Fox News reported about it. Notice how Trump took no responsibility and said he was joking with his comment it was sarcasm:
States see spike in poison control calls following Trump's comments on injecting disinfectant
Despite the president's claims that his comment was sarcastic, many took the suggestion seriously.
www.foxnews.com
Dutch Uncle
* Tertia Optio * Defend the Constitution
He probably does, but like most MAGAts and wackadoodles, I'm guessing he's divorced.
ThatOwlWoman
Leftist Vermin
It's a legitimate concern, but it's also an example of "Evolution in Action" since, like Trump's idea of using bleach to kill the COVID virus led to some dumbasses drinking or burning themselves with bleach.
It was so bad even Fox News reported about it. Notice how Trump took no responsibility and said he was joking with his comment it was sarcasm:
The president subsequently claimed on Friday that he was being "sarcastic," although at the press conference he was soberly addressing health experts on the coronavirus task force, urging them to launch a study.States see spike in poison control calls following Trump's comments on injecting disinfectant
Despite the president's claims that his comment was sarcastic, many took the suggestion seriously.
Trump not only did not take responsibility, he actively attacked the CDC and Fauci and other medical and scientific experts and convinced at least the terminally (literally in some cases) stupid that the virus was a nothingburger. And then the dying really started.
How would a person go about engaging in a discussion with someone who believes viruses don't exist and vaccines aren't the reason for viruses cases, like measles, greatly decreasing?Personal attacks tend to just add noise to a discussion. Aside from your statement being a personal attack, it sheds no light on who these people are. Perhaps you don't actually know?According to people who aren't crazy and understand that vaccines work.According to who?
That's certainly what the mainstream media would have you believe. The truth is somethihg else. A good article from Mike Stone on measles from a little over a year ago:
Here's the introduction to the article:
**
If you have been paying attention to recent headlines here in the US, you will notice that it is time once again for the measles magic show. In other words, it is time for virologists to pull the measles “virus” out of their hats so that it can rear its head in order to frighten the ignorant into allowing toxic injections into themselves and their children. While measles cases are said to occur in the US every year, the alarm bells rung by the CDC and within the mainstream media happens every so often when there needs to be a clamp down on anti-vaccine messaging as well as a push to increase vaccination rates. Remember the scary headlines alerting the people to a measles outbreak in Disneyland in 2014? It was the perfect set-up to strike down nonmedical vaccine exemptions that were increasing in California and elsewhere. The media focused on a “spread” through the unvaccinated population and highlighted vaccine hesitancy as a primary driver of the outbreak. This led to a “positive” outlook and support for vaccination.
Revisiting the 2014-15 Disneyland measles outbreak and its influence on pediatric vaccinations
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34495822/
However, the Disneyland Measles Massacre wasn't even the “main” measles “outbreak” in 2014. That distinction belongs to the Amish in Ohio where an “outbreak” was blamed on an Amish missionary who traveled to the Philippines. In the end, there were 382 Amish said to be “infected” with the measles “virus.” Not a single person died. Regardless, the missionary, who was originally diagnosed with dengue, was given the blame for being unvaccinated and bringing the measles “virus” back to spread amongst the unvaccinated. While this “outbreak” helped to clamp down on anti-vaccination sentiment riled up by Jenny McCarthy that year, it was the perfect vehicle to convince the masses that it is unvaccinated travelers bringing back diseases in from other countries. This is a theme that the CDC has utilized time and time again [snip]
**
I think what Mr. Stone says in his conclusion is quite interesting as well:
**
The CDC admits that it is difficult to diagnose any vaccinated person with measles due to the unreliability of the tests. Perhaps this is why most vaccinated individuals are presumed “immune” to measles and testing is saved for the unvaccinated? Regardless, the CDC acknowledges that even if a measles case is seen at a physician’s office, it is most likely not a “true” measles case even if it meets the clinical definition. The only reason to suspect measles is if the person is unvaccinated and came into contact with traveler's from abroad. Granted, the CDC does say that cases of “high suspicion” should be investigated. However, this is only if other causes have been ruled out first, such as parvovirus, dengue, Kawasaki disease, scarlet fever, and rubella.
The list of potential diagnoses for the same symptoms of disease is much longer than what the CDC provided. Going back to the MN Department of Health, a more comprehensive list of diseases, both “infectious” and “non-infectious,” presenting with measles-like symptoms is outlined. As these diseases all have similar features to measles, they all must be ruled out before a measles diagnosis can be made and “confirmed:”
“Providers should also consider other infectious and non-infectious etiologies that may cause fever and generalized rash, including:
As can be seen from the above information, we are left with quite a few preconditions that must be satisfied in order for a new measles outbreak to be declared.
- Rubella, Scarlet fever, Roseola infantum, Kawasaki disease, Erythema infectiosum (Fifth Disease), Coxsackievirus, Echovirus, Epstein-Barr virus, HIV, Pharyngoconjunctival fever, Influenza
- Dengue, Rocky Mountain spotted fever, Zika virus
- Dermatologic manifestations of Viral hemorrhagic fevers
- Toxic Shock Syndrome, cutaneous syphilis
- Drug reactions (e.g., antibiotics, contact dermatitis)
With these preconditions firmly established, it is easy to see how the CDC can manufacture and steer a measles outbreak so that it appears as if it was instigated from outside of the US and spread through the unvaccinated. All they need is to alert clinicians in order to have them identify anyone unvaccinated who presents with nonspecific symptoms, such as a fever and a rash, that may have recently been a traveler or been in contact with one. They can then use unreliable laboratory tests to “confirm” that the case is measles rather than any of the other identical conditions it would have been pegged as prior to the alert. If someone who is vaccinated slips through as a suspected case, they make it difficult to confirm them as a measles case by blaming the unreliable tests and the vaccinated status and/or the presumed “immunity.” Thus, a measles outbreak can be steered away from the vaccinated and pinned on any unvaccinated individual when they would have normally been diagnosed with any of the other conditions presenting with a fever, a maculopapular rash, and nonspecific symptoms of disease. Voila! The CDC gets to declare a measles “outbreak” in the unvaccinated instigated from contact coming outside from an “endemic” country. Now that the curtain has pulled back, and the trick has been exposed, it is time to cancel this magic show once and for all.
- The CDC must issue an alert for healthcare workers to start looking for measles cases.
- Testing should be limited to those who meet the case definition and are unvaccinated, have a recent history of travel abroad, and are without an alternate explanation for symptoms.
- Those with a history of previous measles “infection” or vaccination should be presumed to be “immune.”
- Many clinicians do not know what a measles case looks like, so clinical diagnosis is unreliable, and it must be “confirmed” via unreliable tests.
- The long list of similar diseases presenting with the same symptoms must be ruled out via differential diagnosis first before “confirming” a measles case.
- A suspected measles case in someone vaccinated must meet the clinical case definition and be linked to a laboratory case in order to be a “confirmed” case.
**
Conspiracy theories aside.... the measles vaccine is THE reason for measles cases dropping from millions to virtually nothing today.
You could start by focusing on answering the simple question I asked you. You stated that "the measles vaccine is THE reason for measles cases dropping from millions to virtually nothing today". I simply asked you "According to who?" It's not a difficult question, unless you don't actually know. In which case, it would not only be a question that you would find difficult to answer, but it could also be embarassing to admit you don't actually know.
ZenMode
Well-known member
According to who? Here's the problem, no answer I provided would matter to you, because you are not rational. If I were able to compile a list of every person who has ever been involved with the development, application, tracking and compiling of data that shows how dramatically the number of cases gone down since the vaccine was developed and sufficiently implemented, it wouldn't matter because, again, you are not sane.
I've responded to your post in the thread I made years ago to discuss whether or not biological viruses are real. For the audience, my response can be seen here:
Say, wasn't it under The Faggot and his meat puppet Joe that 300 million chickens were slaughtered over the bird flu?
I know you're just lying to smear the opposition - as always - but this is a new level of stupidity even for you...
ZenMode
Well-known member
@Scott
Here's what appears to be the basis for the rabbit hole you've gone down.
The information I'm about to post will not matter to you because you are a conspiracy theorist and irrational.
Here it is anyway:
A Facebook post with over 350 shares as of May 25, 2020 falsely claims that deadly viruses are a “hoax” and that no virus harmful to humans has been shown to exist.
The post includes a photo overlaid with text (here ). The text on the image contains several remarks on the issue vaccination, alongside the claim: "No "virus" harmful to humans has ever been proven to exist". This claim is untrue.
Lynda Coughlin, a virologist (twitter.com/Virusnerdette) and Assistant Professor in Microbiology at Mount Sinai Hospital (here) told Reuters: “The statement that "no virus harmful to humans has ever been proven to exist" is absolutely false. There are numerous examples of viruses which are known to cause disease in humans. In the same way we can trace DNA left at the scene of the crime, scientists can identify viruses which are the cause of human disease by isolating them from infected individuals, sequencing their genetic material to identify them, directly visualising them (by electron microscopy) and indirectly visualising their effects on cells, as well as confirming their ability to cause disease by testing isolated and characterised viruses in animal models”.
“The combination of many state-of-the-art techniques can allow us to track virus transmission in humans, to identify which viral proteins are involved in entering our cells or in causing disease symptoms. Our ability to understand these processes allows us to design vaccines which can generate an immune response to block infection, and subsequently prevent disease,” she said.
A review of Virology in the 21st Century, as published in the American Society for Microbiology's Journal of Virology (jvi.asm.org/content/83/11/5296) , names measles, poliomyelitis, rabies, and yellow fever as some examples of "viral scourges" that have afflicted humans. The review also points to Smallpox, a viral disease now eradicated, as having been "humankind's greatest killer".
Here's what appears to be the basis for the rabbit hole you've gone down.
The information I'm about to post will not matter to you because you are a conspiracy theorist and irrational.
Here it is anyway:
Fact check: Viruses harmful to humans are proven to exist
A Facebook post with over 350 shares as of May 25, 2020 falsely claims that deadly viruses are a “hoax” and that no virus harmful to humans has been shown to exist.
The post includes a photo overlaid with text (here ). The text on the image contains several remarks on the issue vaccination, alongside the claim: "No "virus" harmful to humans has ever been proven to exist". This claim is untrue.
Lynda Coughlin, a virologist (twitter.com/Virusnerdette) and Assistant Professor in Microbiology at Mount Sinai Hospital (here) told Reuters: “The statement that "no virus harmful to humans has ever been proven to exist" is absolutely false. There are numerous examples of viruses which are known to cause disease in humans. In the same way we can trace DNA left at the scene of the crime, scientists can identify viruses which are the cause of human disease by isolating them from infected individuals, sequencing their genetic material to identify them, directly visualising them (by electron microscopy) and indirectly visualising their effects on cells, as well as confirming their ability to cause disease by testing isolated and characterised viruses in animal models”.
“The combination of many state-of-the-art techniques can allow us to track virus transmission in humans, to identify which viral proteins are involved in entering our cells or in causing disease symptoms. Our ability to understand these processes allows us to design vaccines which can generate an immune response to block infection, and subsequently prevent disease,” she said.
A review of Virology in the 21st Century, as published in the American Society for Microbiology's Journal of Virology (jvi.asm.org/content/83/11/5296) , names measles, poliomyelitis, rabies, and yellow fever as some examples of "viral scourges" that have afflicted humans. The review also points to Smallpox, a viral disease now eradicated, as having been "humankind's greatest killer".
It helped manage healthcare costs in New York and California... Both significantly reduced Hospice Care populations.
Dutch Uncle
* Tertia Optio * Defend the Constitution
Trump is both selfish and irresponsible. He's unfit to lead. Fighting him hasn't worked for either the real Republicans nor the Democrats so now they are taking the tactic of stepping back to watch the implosion.