TRUMP MULLS ENDING ALL ONGOING MILITARY AID TO UKRAINE

Bigdog said:
The Uboat attacks were justified from the German viewpoint since arms, etc. were being smuggled. Woodrow wanted war and his foreign policy created it. Woodrow way overreacted and overreached with the Sedition Act and Espionage act using them to censor free speech, imprison journalists and put newspapers out of business. And target the I.W.W..

And all for what? The right to ship arms to Britain? A war on the other side of the ocean?

The Zimmerman letter was overhyped. Mexico was in chaos and in no position to do any damage to the U.S..
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No evidence for that, and like I said, the majority of both Parties' reps and Senators said he was justified. The German viewpoint was they were entitled to start a war and dictate to everybody else whatever they felt like dictating. Even Mr. Neutrality himself, Jefferson, had to face up to the reality that military responses were necessary and few powers in the world are going to let you alone for long. His foreign policy didn't create the war; Wilhelm II did.
 
EdwinA said:
No evidence for that, and like I said, the majority of both Parties' reps and Senators said he was justified. The German viewpoint was they were entitled to start a war and dictate to everybody else whatever they felt like dictating. Even Mr. Neutrality himself, Jefferson, had to face up to the reality that military responses were necessary and few powers in the world are going to let you alone for long. His foreign policy didn't create the war; Wilhelm II did.
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Agree, Woodrow convinced both parties. He ran a strong psyops to get us in, after getting elected on the promise to keep us out. Agree, he did not create the war. His antagonist foreign policy got us into the war. His leadership led us into the war.

Woodrow was planning for a 3rd term, and would have run if not for the Stroke.

In Tripoli, our merchant ships were not getting hijacked because they were providing military aid to a warring country.

Good discussion, but I think we are just going to disagree on this one, my friend.
 
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Diogenes said:
Eisenhower didn’t directly "get us into Vietnam" in the sense of starting the Vietnam War, but his administration laid the groundwork for U.S.
involvement. When Eisenhower took office in 1953, Vietnam was still a French colony embroiled in the First Indochina War against the communist Viet Minh, led by Ho Chi Minh.
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The French are not Eisenhower, He had nothing to do with the Vietnam war either. LEFTISTS started the Vietnam war.
Diogenes said:
The U.S., under Eisenhower, began providing financial and military aid to France to counter the spread of communism, consistent with the Cold War "domino theory." By 1954, the U.S. was funding up to 80% of France’s war effort—hundreds of millions of dollars annually.
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Eisenhower didn't start the cold war either. LEFTISTS did.
Diogenes said:
After the French defeat at Dien Bien Phu in 1954, the Geneva Accords split Vietnam into North (communist) and South (anti-communist). Eisenhower rejected the accords’ call for nationwide elections in 1956, fearing a Ho Chi Minh victory, and instead backed Ngo Dinh Diem’s regime in South Vietnam.

He sent military advisors—starting with a few hundred by the end of his term in 1961—to train South Vietnams' army (ARVN). This was a limited commitment: no combat troops, just support. The escalation into full-scale war came later, under Kennedy and Johnson. So, Eisenhower didn’t "get us in" militarily, but his policies—aid, advisors, and propping up Diem—set the stage.

@Grok
Eisenhower did not start the Vietnam war. LEFTISTS did.



LBJ’s escalation began in earnest in 1965 after the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution (August 1964), which gave him broad authority to ramp up U.S. involvement. Operation Rolling Thunder, a massive bombing campaign, started in March 1965, and U.S. troop levels jumped from about 23,000 advisors in 1964 to 184,000 combat troops by the end of 1965, peaking at over 536,000 by 1968. The goal was to crush the Viet Cong (VC), the communist insurgents in South Vietnam, and prop up the Saigon government.

Did it work in three years? Not really. From 1965 to 1968, the Viet Cong took heavy losses—tens of thousands killed, especially during the 1968 Tet Offensive, where they lost an estimated 30,000-40,000 fighters. U.S. and ARVN forces claimed to have weakened the VC’s infrastructure, with General Westmoreland asserting in 1967 that enemy strength was declining.

But the Tet Offensive in January 1968 proved the VC wasn’t destroyed. They launched a coordinated attack across South Vietnam, hitting over 100 targets, including Saigon. Though it was a military loss for the VC (they didn’t hold ground), it shattered the narrative of U.S. progress, turning American public opinion sharply against the war.

By 1968, the VC wasn’t the same force—its ranks were depleted, and North Vietnamese regulars (NVA) increasingly took over. VC numbers dropped from maybe 80,000 in 1965 to a fraction by 1969, with estimates as low as 30,000-40,000 fighters. But "destroyed as a major force" overstates it.

They adapted, shifted to guerrilla tactics, and relied on NVA support. The war dragged on until 1975, with the VC still active in the final push that took Saigon. LBJ’s escalation hurt them badly but didn’t knock them out in three years—resilience and North Vietnam’s backing kept them in the fight.

So, Eisenhower planted seeds; LBJ escalated but didn’t finish the VC in that timeframe. Historical consensus backs this: initial commitment versus all-out war, and heavy damage versus total defeat.



@Grok
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Eisenhower didn't start the Vietnam war or even 'plant the seeds'.
 
EdwinA said:
You wouldn't like it no matter what, it doesn't fit Republican propaganda narratives. You know where to get the book, as does anybody who really has an interest in the facts and the timelines. 'All the DEms wuz Evul Warmongers N Stuff While The GOP wuz all peace loving victims n stuff' is just silly bullshit, always was and still is.

170+ Republicans voted for war, 32 opposed, 5 abstained. Just a fact.
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Democrats and leftists are evil war mongers.

They were instrumental in starting the Vietnam War.
They were instrumental in starting the War of Secession.
They are instrumental in trying to start the civil war.
Leftists started WW1 and WW2.
Leftists started the Korean war.
Democrats funded Iran, starting the latest war with Israel.
 
EdwinA said:
Try holding your breath until you turn blue. See if that makes me scared n stuff. Your spin was never true, and you can't make it true by parroting it over and over and over and more than Democrats parroting their rubbish can. You have a link to the best and most recent source. You're just going to ignore it and keep parroting the Party spin, is all.
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Denying history won't work, Edwina.
 
EdwinA said:
You wouldn't know, you've never read any real history on it, just repeat some spin you heard that sounds good. People love to cite stuff about Johnson that comes from Caro's biography, but they only repeat blurbs they read on the innernutz and have never read Caro's books and don't know what he actually said, and that he had no documented sources on a lot of it, just hearsay. Now you have a link to a real book on WW I, and you will not read it. It isn't of any use to your preferred narratives.
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You deny history, Edwina.
Leftists started WW1 AND WW2.
 
Bigdog said:
Technically, it was Truman who first got us involved by providing money for military aid. While Ike was the first to secretly send SF trainers.
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It was part of the containment policy, which of course worked without triggering another world war. Republicans can really point to any war they won, except the illegal war their first President started in 1861, or Teddy's invasion of Spain.
 
Nordberg said:
That is dumb. America did not start those wars. It was not Dems , but we declared war twice. That was a vote in the House and Senate. Your post is bad. Korea was started by France and picked up by America. The Vietnam War was started by LBJ but continued by Dem and Repub presidents.
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What country are you from? They seem to have good drugs.
 
EdwinA said:
It was part of the containment policy, which of course worked without triggering another world war. Republicans can really point to any war they won, except the illegal war their first President started in 1861, or Teddy's invasion of Spain.
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The War of Secession was started by Democrats, Edwina.
 
EdwinA said:
Post a genuine rebuttal. You can't, you don't know any.
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You presented no evidence to rebut. You claimed that something you read in a book was evidence without citing any specifics. I have no way of knowing whether you read the book or not. @Grok explicitly found that your conclusion isn't based in any known evidence. "I read it in a book" is not evidence.
 
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