Why I am am athiest

Cypress said:
Noted atheist Sean Carroll on four possibilities for the fine tuning of the universe

1. The universal parameters were designed by an external agent to allow for atomic complexity, organization, and life.
2. We will discover that for one reason or another, the laws of physics just dictate the parameters can not be any other way.
3. It was just an accident. The universal constants could have been something different, but they're just not.
4. There was a selection event, and we just happen to live in a part of a larger multiverse where the physical constants allow us to live.

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gvrORNrLH_M
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The least appealing ones to me are the claim the value of the universal constants was just an accident, or that science will show they simply can't be any other value.
Belief in accidents or coincidences undermines the basic premise of the scientific project. Claiming they can't be any other value raises more questions than it answers.

The two options that are more appealing are there was a selection event, and we just got stuck in a part of a multiverse where the universal constants were perfectly balanced - or there is some external agent that fine tuned the cosmos to allow for organization, atomic matter, and life.
 
The Bible does say it so well often times, doesn't it? :thumbsup:
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It's a mark of real brilliance when so much can be said with so few words, as is done with that short verse. That's one reason you'll never see or hear myself, say I'm brilliant.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Militant atheists are no different that militant theists; they both strongly believe they are right without any evidence to back up their beliefs.
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So very correct, Unk.

Militant atheists and militant theists both have made blind guesses about the true nature of existence...and will defend those blind guesses with the gusto of a mama bear protecting her cub.

Too bad, that!

America may be heading toward a theocracy right now...and that would be a disaster. And for sure, atheists are of almost no help in protecting from that happening. All they have to offer is the argument, "Yeah, the question of whether there are any gods or not CAN be answered, but you guys are coming up with the wrong answer."

Fact is, though, that "the question of whether there are any gods or not CANNOT be answered at this time."

That stance at least has a chance of realistically fighting our movement toward a Christian Taliban.
 
Ross Dolan said:
So very correct, Unk.

Militant atheists and militant theists both have made blind guesses about the true nature of existence...and will defend those blind guesses with the gusto of a mama bear protecting her cub.

Too bad, that!

America may be heading toward a theocracy right now...and that would be a disaster. And for sure, atheists are of almost no help in protecting from that happening. All they have to offer is the argument, "Yeah, the question of whether there are any gods or not CAN be answered, but you guys are coming up with the wrong answer."

Fact is, though, that "the question of whether there are any gods or not CANNOT be answered at this time."

That stance at least has a chance of realistically fighting our movement toward a Christian Taliban.
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Agreed it would be a disaster but like most authoritarian states, be it atheist (e.g. USSR or PRC) or theist (e.g. Iran), the main point is to wield power and control the resources within their reach be it natural resources or the population itself.

IMO, the autocratic forces at work in the US are simply using religion, specifically Evanglism, as a stepping stone to an autocracy. Does anyone really believe Trump and the DOGE Bros, including Chancellor Musk himself, are pious? All the MAGAts supporting him? Name a single JPP MAGAt on this forum who strikes you as being devoutly religious because I can't.
 
Ross Dolan said:
Militant very correct, Unk.

Militant atheists and militant theists both have made blind guesses about the true nature of existence...and will defend those blind guesses with the gusto of a mama bear protecting her cub.

Too bad, that!

America may be heading toward a theocracy right now...and that would be a disaster. And for sure, atheists are of almost no help in protecting from that happening. All they have to offer is the argument, "Yeah, the question of whether there are any gods or not CAN be answered, but you guys are coming up with the wrong answer."

Fact is, though, that "the question of whether there are any gods or not CANNOT be answered at this time."

That stance at least has a chance of realistically fighting our movement toward a Christian Taliban.
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Militant atheism has never been a viable alternative to theocracy, and militant atheism has never built a civilized society. It ends up being the French Revolution, the USSR, the Khmer Rouge.

The answer to things like the Taliban or fundamentalist Christianity is a more modest patchwork of pluralism, secularism, and moderate Christian humanism.
 
Cypress said:
Militant atheism has never been a viable alternative to theocracy, and militant atheism has never built a civilized society. It ends up being the French Revolution, the USSR, the Khmer Rouge.

The answer to things like the Taliban or fundamentalist Christianity is a more modest patchwork of pluralism, secularism, and moderate Christian humanism.
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Agreed, mostly due to the fact that pure atheists are rare. The USSR and PRC both took Marx's comment that religion was an opiate of the masses and attempted to stamp it out. Even after decades of trying, they failed.

IMO, the failure was due to the facts that 1) the vast majority of people have a spiritual nature just like they have a physical and mental nature and 2) replacing beliefs in religion with belief in "the state" is flawed since "the state" purely physical whereas religion retains a spiritual nature and only flawed by the humans leading it.
 
Cypress said:
He's very passionate about his atheism, and his main arguments are: there is no evidence God exists, the Bible is error-filled 2,000 year old scribblings of desert primitives, the stories in the Bible sound like they were written by stoners, and if you try to force Christian morals on him he will fuck you up.

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Oh look, an Atheist aggressively and angrily proselytizing. At least he isn't knocking on my door the JW's...
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Agreed, mostly due to the fact that pure atheists are rare. The USSR and PRC both took Marx's comment that religion was an opiate of the masses and attempted to stamp it out. Even after decades of trying, they failed.

IMO, the failure was due to the facts that 1) the vast majority of people have a spiritual nature just like they have a physical and mental nature and 2) replacing beliefs in religion with belief in "the state" is flawed since "the state" purely physical whereas religion retains a spiritual nature and only flawed by the humans leading it.
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I think you are correct.

I doubt Marx and the Bolsheviks realized that strict scientific materialism cannot be the sole basis of a civilization, a culture, a normative system of values.
 
Cypress said:
Militant atheism has never been a viable alternative to theocracy, and militant atheism has never built a civilized society. It ends up being the French Revolution, the USSR, the Khmer Rouge.

The answer to things like the Taliban or fundamentalist Christianity is a more modest patchwork of pluralism, secularism, and moderate Christian humanism.
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Absolutely correct, Cypress.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Agreed, mostly due to the fact that pure atheists are rare. The USSR and PRC both took Marx's comment that religion was an opiate of the masses and attempted to stamp it out. Even after decades of trying, they failed.

IMO, the failure was due to the facts that 1) the vast majority of people have a spiritual nature just like they have a physical and mental nature and 2) replacing beliefs in religion with belief in "the state" is flawed since "the state" purely physical whereas religion retains a spiritual nature and only flawed by the humans leading it.
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Replacing belief in gods with anything other than the words, "I do not know"...is not replacing it at all. In fact, in a way, it confirms that "belief" is something other than mere speculation...or as I often put it, "Blind guessing."
 
Ross Dolan said:
Replacing belief in gods with anything other than the words, "I do not know"...is not replacing it at all. In fact, in a way, it confirms that "belief" is something other than mere speculation...or as I often put it, "Blind guessing."
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Belief that there is more to existence than the physical and mental is overwhelmingly common among human beings throughout all known human history. Specifying the nature of that supernatural existence is, indeed, blind guessing.
 
Ross Dolan said:
Replacing belief in gods with anything other than the words, "I do not know"...is not replacing it at all. In fact, in a way, it confirms that "belief" is something other than mere speculation...or as I often put it, "Blind guessing."
Click to expand...
Dutch Uncle said:
Belief that there is more to existence than the physical and mental is overwhelmingly common among human beings throughout all known human history. Specifying the nature of that supernatural existence is, indeed, blind guessing.
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I have a method for detecting militant atheists and religious fundamentalists.

Anyone who uses terms "sky daddy", "zombie Jesus", or equates religious belief to belief in the tooth fairy is militantly atheist and agenda-motivated.

Anyone who treats the Bible as inerrant and literal truth is a fundamentalist, and usually Donald Trump is their Messiah
 
Cypress said:
I have a method for detecting militant atheists and religious fundamentalists.

Anyone who uses terms "sky daddy", "zombie Jesus", or equates religious belief to belief in the tooth fairy is militantly atheist and agenda-motivated.

Anyone who treats the Bible as inerrant and literal truth is a fundamentalist, and usually Donald Trump is their Messiah
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I love that last part!
 
Ross Dolan said:
So very correct, Unk.

Militant atheists and militant theists both have made blind guesses about the true nature of existence...and will defend those blind guesses with the gusto of a mama bear protecting her cub.

Too bad, that!

America may be heading toward a theocracy right now...and that would be a disaster. And for sure, atheists are of almost no help in protecting from that happening. All they have to offer is the argument, "Yeah, the question of whether there are any gods or not CAN be answered, but you guys are coming up with the wrong answer."

Fact is, though, that "the question of whether there are any gods or not CANNOT be answered at this time."

That stance at least has a chance of realistically fighting our movement toward a Christian Taliban.
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I believe you are referencing agnostics and NOT atheists.
 
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