The Untied States of America? [ICE operations in LA] | Dennis Kucinich

Scott

Verified User
Just finished reading Dennis Kucinich's article that shares the name of this thread, thought it was quite good. Quoting the introduction and conclusion of his article below:
**

The Untied States of America?​

By deploying troops without state consent, the President is overriding state sovereignty, undermining federal law and defying the foundational documents of the Republic.​

Jun 11, 2025

America is heading towards a Constitutional crisis, with the President of the United States, on his own instance, federalizing the California National Guard and sending in the Marines to support the quasi-military fugitive operations of Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), rounding up thousands of Angelenos in one of the most densely populated Hispanic and Latino counties in America—Los Angeles.

The President was not asked by local officials for help in controlling violent protests, perhaps because Los Angeles city and county together employ nearly 20,000 sworn law enforcement officers, trained and experienced in handling ambiguous and confrontational situations.

Yet, the President chose to bypass local authority, sending in 4,000 Guardsmen and 700 Marines under the authority of Title 10 of the U.S. Code, dealing with the Armed Forces, Chapter 13, which defines military operations in an insurrection, a violent uprising against the government.

However, Article II of the U.S. Constitution, which established the Executive branch and the office of the President, did not confer unfettered domestic control. The President’s power as Commander-in-Chief is limited. It does not extend to military deployment inside the United States except under sharply restricted circumstances.

The President is strictly prohibited from using active-duty federal troops for local law enforcement, arrests, or searches under the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878, unless explicitly authorized by statute. No such statutory authorization has been invoked.

(‘Posse Comitatus’ derives from Latin, “the power of the county,” relating to the ability of a Sheriff to call upon local, able-bodied citizens to assist in law enforcement.)

The controlling statute—the Insurrection Act of 1807—was passed to enable the federal government to use troops when there is an attempt to overthrow the government or when state authorities cannot or will not act to enforce the law. Where is the insurrection? Where is the rebellion? Mass protest and public unrest, however widespread or inconvenient, do not meet the legal threshold.

The Tenth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution reads:

“The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.”

This state–federal power-sharing amendment, a cornerstone of the Bill of Rights, was essential to the ratification of the Constitution on June 21, 1788. States became known, in the apocryphal words of Justice Louis Brandeis, “the laboratories of democracy.”

The modern reality is that while states function semi-autonomously, they are often starved of resources to perform the “laboratory” experiments, while enmeshed in federal-state partisan political battles and riven by federal pre-emption, a dilemma further detailed in the Columbia Law Review “The Myth of the Laboratories of Democracy,” by Charles W. Tyler and Heather K. Gerken.

Still the Tenth Amendment stands as a bulwark for states, particularly when it comes to controlling its own militia, the National Guard. The Tenth Amendment reserves to states the right to control their own National Guards, unless and until properly federalized.

By deploying troops without state consent, the President is overriding state sovereignty, undermining federal law and defying the foundational documents of the Republic.

If a governor objects to federalization, the burden is on the President to demonstrate, legally and constitutionally, why that state’s authority should be suspended over its affairs of public safety. The federal government must prove its case. Absent a collapse in law and order, the Insurrection Act cannot be used to mask political motives or suppress lawful protest.

The President’s use of the military in contravention of the Tenth Amendment is a direct assault on the structural integrity of the Union, a raw power grab.
It is not traditional political conflict, we are witnessing, it is the slow unraveling of the Republic. If authoritarian practices are unchallenged and become normalized, autocracy will transit to fascism, unless the federal courts, and ultimately, the U.S. Supreme Court intervenes quickly.

The moment harkens back to the cautionary words of Ben Franklin on September 17, 1787, uttered on the last day of the Constitutional Convention. When questioned by Elizabeth Willing Powell, a woman famous in Philadelphia social and political circles, “Well Doctor, what have we got, a republic or a monarchy?”

Franklin answered, “A Republic, if you can keep it.”

[snip]

In 2026 we will observe America’s 250th birthday. Let us honor the memory of our Founders and of those who gave their lives in defense of the principles of liberty, by celebrating the Spirit of Independence every day, committing ourselves to active citizenship which challenges at every turn any system of government or leader, or any law, which compromises our constitutionally guaranteed freedoms. It is this vigilance under which we must unite. It is this vigilance which guarantees the triumph of freedom.
**

Full article:
 
Just finished reading Dennis Kucinich's article that shares the name of this thread, thought it was quite good. Quoting the introduction and conclusion of his article below:
**

The Untied States of America?​

By deploying troops without state consent, the President is overriding state sovereignty, undermining federal law and defying the foundational documents of the Republic.​

Jun 11, 2025

America is heading towards a Constitutional crisis, with the President of the United States, on his own instance, federalizing the California National Guard and sending in the Marines to support the quasi-military fugitive operations of Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), rounding up thousands of Angelenos in one of the most densely populated Hispanic and Latino counties in America—Los Angeles.

The President was not asked by local officials for help in controlling violent protests, perhaps because Los Angeles city and county together employ nearly 20,000 sworn law enforcement officers, trained and experienced in handling ambiguous and confrontational situations.

Yet, the President chose to bypass local authority, sending in 4,000 Guardsmen and 700 Marines under the authority of Title 10 of the U.S. Code, dealing with the Armed Forces, Chapter 13, which defines military operations in an insurrection, a violent uprising against the government.

However, Article II of the U.S. Constitution, which established the Executive branch and the office of the President, did not confer unfettered domestic control. The President’s power as Commander-in-Chief is limited. It does not extend to military deployment inside the United States except under sharply restricted circumstances.

The President is strictly prohibited from using active-duty federal troops for local law enforcement, arrests, or searches under the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878, unless explicitly authorized by statute. No such statutory authorization has been invoked.

(‘Posse Comitatus’ derives from Latin, “the power of the county,” relating to the ability of a Sheriff to call upon local, able-bodied citizens to assist in law enforcement.)

The controlling statute—the Insurrection Act of 1807—was passed to enable the federal government to use troops when there is an attempt to overthrow the government or when state authorities cannot or will not act to enforce the law. Where is the insurrection? Where is the rebellion? Mass protest and public unrest, however widespread or inconvenient, do not meet the legal threshold.

The Tenth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution reads:

“The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.”

This state–federal power-sharing amendment, a cornerstone of the Bill of Rights, was essential to the ratification of the Constitution on June 21, 1788. States became known, in the apocryphal words of Justice Louis Brandeis, “the laboratories of democracy.”

The modern reality is that while states function semi-autonomously, they are often starved of resources to perform the “laboratory” experiments, while enmeshed in federal-state partisan political battles and riven by federal pre-emption, a dilemma further detailed in the Columbia Law Review “The Myth of the Laboratories of Democracy,” by Charles W. Tyler and Heather K. Gerken.

Still the Tenth Amendment stands as a bulwark for states, particularly when it comes to controlling its own militia, the National Guard. The Tenth Amendment reserves to states the right to control their own National Guards, unless and until properly federalized.

By deploying troops without state consent, the President is overriding state sovereignty, undermining federal law and defying the foundational documents of the Republic.

If a governor objects to federalization, the burden is on the President to demonstrate, legally and constitutionally, why that state’s authority should be suspended over its affairs of public safety. The federal government must prove its case. Absent a collapse in law and order, the Insurrection Act cannot be used to mask political motives or suppress lawful protest.

The President’s use of the military in contravention of the Tenth Amendment is a direct assault on the structural integrity of the Union, a raw power grab.
It is not traditional political conflict, we are witnessing, it is the slow unraveling of the Republic. If authoritarian practices are unchallenged and become normalized, autocracy will transit to fascism, unless the federal courts, and ultimately, the U.S. Supreme Court intervenes quickly.

The moment harkens back to the cautionary words of Ben Franklin on September 17, 1787, uttered on the last day of the Constitutional Convention. When questioned by Elizabeth Willing Powell, a woman famous in Philadelphia social and political circles, “Well Doctor, what have we got, a republic or a monarchy?”

Franklin answered, “A Republic, if you can keep it.”

[snip]

In 2026 we will observe America’s 250th birthday. Let us honor the memory of our Founders and of those who gave their lives in defense of the principles of liberty, by celebrating the Spirit of Independence every day, committing ourselves to active citizenship which challenges at every turn any system of government or leader, or any law, which compromises our constitutionally guaranteed freedoms. It is this vigilance under which we must unite. It is this vigilance which guarantees the triumph of freedom.
**

Full article:
Trump wants to be like Putin. It won't work since this is America, not Russia. :thup:
 
When local authorities wring their hands and do nothing to stop violence, then go in front of a microphone and equivocate, even calling some of the violence justified, it's time for the adults to step in.
 
When local authorities wring their hands and do nothing to stop violence, then go in front of a microphone and equivocate, even calling some of the violence justified, it's time for the adults to step in.

I think the main problem here is that the federal authorities played a significant role in -starting- the violence and apparently also fanned the flames in continuing it. An article from the New York Times, originally published on June 6th, and updated today, points out the evidence for this. Quoting from it:
**
Federal agents in tactical gear armed with military-style rifles threw flash-bang grenades to disperse an angry crowd near downtown Los Angeles on Friday as they conducted an immigration raid on a clothing wholesaler, the latest sign of tensions between protesters and law enforcement over raids carried out at stores, restaurants and court buildings.

The operation was one of at least three immigration sweeps conducted in Los Angeles on Friday. In another one, federal agents converged at a Home Depot where day laborers regularly gather in search of work.

The raid at the clothing wholesaler began about 9:15 a.m. in the Fashion District, less than two miles from Los Angeles City Hall.

It was an extraordinary show of force. Dozens of federal agents wearing helmets and green camouflage arrived in two hulking armored trucks and other unmarked vehicles, and were soon approached by a crowd of immigrant activists and supporters. Some agents carried riot shields and others held rifles, as well as shotguns that appeared to be loaded with less-than-lethal ammunition.

Agents cleared a path for two white passenger vans that exited the area. A short time later, as officers boarded their vehicles to leave, a few agents lobbed flash-bang grenades at groups of people who chased alongside the slow-moving convoy. Some protesters had thrown eggs and other objects at the vehicles. At one point, the vehicles snagged and crushed at least two electric scooters that protesters had used.


[snip]

“They started throwing flash-bangs and blew everybody up with it,” the man, David McDaniel, said as he held his bloody foot. “I got shrapnel all over my body,” he added.

Mr. McDaniel said he was not part of the protest and was just trying to get by. Bystanders and legal observers assisted him as they waited for an ambulance.

**

Full article (as a New York Times subscriber, I've shared this, so people should be able to see it for free):
 
I think the main problem here is that the federal authorities played a significant role in -starting- the violence and apparently also fanned the flames in continuing it. An article from the New York Times, originally published on June 6th, and updated today, points out the evidence for this. Quoting from it:
**
Federal agents in tactical gear armed with military-style rifles threw flash-bang grenades to disperse an angry crowd near downtown Los Angeles on Friday as they conducted an immigration raid on a clothing wholesaler, the latest sign of tensions between protesters and law enforcement over raids carried out at stores, restaurants and court buildings.

The operation was one of at least three immigration sweeps conducted in Los Angeles on Friday. In another one, federal agents converged at a Home Depot where day laborers regularly gather in search of work.

The raid at the clothing wholesaler began about 9:15 a.m. in the Fashion District, less than two miles from Los Angeles City Hall.

It was an extraordinary show of force. Dozens of federal agents wearing helmets and green camouflage arrived in two hulking armored trucks and other unmarked vehicles, and were soon approached by a crowd of immigrant activists and supporters. Some agents carried riot shields and others held rifles, as well as shotguns that appeared to be loaded with less-than-lethal ammunition.

Agents cleared a path for two white passenger vans that exited the area. A short time later, as officers boarded their vehicles to leave, a few agents lobbed flash-bang grenades at groups of people who chased alongside the slow-moving convoy. Some protesters had thrown eggs and other objects at the vehicles. At one point, the vehicles snagged and crushed at least two electric scooters that protesters had used.


[snip]

“They started throwing flash-bangs and blew everybody up with it,” the man, David McDaniel, said as he held his bloody foot. “I got shrapnel all over my body,” he added.

Mr. McDaniel said he was not part of the protest and was just trying to get by. Bystanders and legal observers assisted him as they waited for an ambulance.

**

Full article (as a New York Times subscriber, I've shared this, so people should be able to see it for free):
Trump won't be happy until a bunch of "Lefty" Americans are dead.
 
I think the main problem here is that the federal authorities played a significant role in -starting- the violence and apparently also fanned the flames in continuing it. An article from the New York Times, originally published on June 6th, and updated today, points out the evidence for this. Quoting from it:
**
Federal agents in tactical gear armed with military-style rifles threw flash-bang grenades to disperse an angry crowd near downtown Los Angeles on Friday as they conducted an immigration raid on a clothing wholesaler, the latest sign of tensions between protesters and law enforcement over raids carried out at stores, restaurants and court buildings.

The operation was one of at least three immigration sweeps conducted in Los Angeles on Friday. In another one, federal agents converged at a Home Depot where day laborers regularly gather in search of work.

The raid at the clothing wholesaler began about 9:15 a.m. in the Fashion District, less than two miles from Los Angeles City Hall.

It was an extraordinary show of force. Dozens of federal agents wearing helmets and green camouflage arrived in two hulking armored trucks and other unmarked vehicles, and were soon approached by a crowd of immigrant activists and supporters. Some agents carried riot shields and others held rifles, as well as shotguns that appeared to be loaded with less-than-lethal ammunition.

Agents cleared a path for two white passenger vans that exited the area. A short time later, as officers boarded their vehicles to leave, a few agents lobbed flash-bang grenades at groups of people who chased alongside the slow-moving convoy. Some protesters had thrown eggs and other objects at the vehicles. At one point, the vehicles snagged and crushed at least two electric scooters that protesters had used.


[snip]

“They started throwing flash-bangs and blew everybody up with it,” the man, David McDaniel, said as he held his bloody foot. “I got shrapnel all over my body,” he added.

Mr. McDaniel said he was not part of the protest and was just trying to get by. Bystanders and legal observers assisted him as they waited for an ambulance.

**

Full article (as a New York Times subscriber, I've shared this, so people should be able to see it for free):
Trump won't be happy until a bunch of "Lefty" Americans are dead.

I don't know about that, but I certainly think it's possible that this won't -end- until a bunch of people on the left are dead. Possibly not just the left either. I ofcourse -hope- that this isn't the case.
 
Trump wants to be like Putin. It won't work since this is America, not Russia. :thup:
How is it not working, Oom?

Pigshit is getting everything he wants.

The USA is now operating as a fascist state.

People are resigning themselves to the "new normal"
because they're too timid to seek the radical solutions required for radical problems.
Solutions like petition.

The very fact that folks like yourself are saying it won't work even as it's working to Pigshit's delight
is in itself proof that it's working.

The America that you think still exists is pretty much dismantled.
And Americans voted for it, just like Germans voted for Chancellor Hitler in the 1930s.
 
How is it not working, Oom?

Pigshit is getting everything he wants.

The USA is now operating as a fascist state.

People are resigning themselves to the "new normal"
because they're too timid to seek the radical solutions required for radical problems.
Solutions like petition.

The very fact that folks like yourself are saying it won't work even as it's working to Pigshit's delight
is in itself proof that it's working.

The America that you think still exists is pretty much dismantled.
And Americans voted for it, just like Germans voted for Chancellor Hitler in the 1930s.
Human nature. Spoiled people have a quicker breaking point than people who've faced adversity most of their lives. Once people recognize that they are losing more freedoms and facing higher prices they'll begin grumbling en masse. To most Americans, it's one thing when it's illegals and MS-13 members being attacked by DHS and the US military, but it's another when it starts happening on one's own street for nebulous reasons.

It helps that the United States has more guns than people. :flagsal:
 
How is it not working, Oom?

Pigshit is getting everything he wants.

The USA is now operating as a fascist state.

People are resigning themselves to the "new normal"
because they're too timid to seek the radical solutions required for radical problems.
Solutions like petition.

The very fact that folks like yourself are saying it won't work even as it's working to Pigshit's delight
is in itself proof that it's working.

The America that you think still exists is pretty much dismantled.
And Americans voted for it, just like Germans voted for Chancellor Hitler in the 1930s.
1749750050551.png
 
Just finished reading Dennis Kucinich's article that shares the name of this thread, thought it was quite good. Quoting the introduction and conclusion of his article below:
**

The Untied States of America?​

By deploying troops without state consent, the President is overriding state sovereignty, undermining federal law and defying the foundational documents of the Republic.​

Jun 11, 2025

America is heading towards a Constitutional crisis, with the President of the United States, on his own instance, federalizing the California National Guard and sending in the Marines to support the quasi-military fugitive operations of Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), rounding up thousands of Angelenos in one of the most densely populated Hispanic and Latino counties in America—Los Angeles.

The President was not asked by local officials for help in controlling violent protests, perhaps because Los Angeles city and county together employ nearly 20,000 sworn law enforcement officers, trained and experienced in handling ambiguous and confrontational situations.

Yet, the President chose to bypass local authority, sending in 4,000 Guardsmen and 700 Marines under the authority of Title 10 of the U.S. Code, dealing with the Armed Forces, Chapter 13, which defines military operations in an insurrection, a violent uprising against the government.

However, Article II of the U.S. Constitution, which established the Executive branch and the office of the President, did not confer unfettered domestic control. The President’s power as Commander-in-Chief is limited. It does not extend to military deployment inside the United States except under sharply restricted circumstances.

The President is strictly prohibited from using active-duty federal troops for local law enforcement, arrests, or searches under the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878, unless explicitly authorized by statute. No such statutory authorization has been invoked.

(‘Posse Comitatus’ derives from Latin, “the power of the county,” relating to the ability of a Sheriff to call upon local, able-bodied citizens to assist in law enforcement.)

The controlling statute—the Insurrection Act of 1807—was passed to enable the federal government to use troops when there is an attempt to overthrow the government or when state authorities cannot or will not act to enforce the law. Where is the insurrection? Where is the rebellion? Mass protest and public unrest, however widespread or inconvenient, do not meet the legal threshold.

The Tenth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution reads:

“The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.”

This state–federal power-sharing amendment, a cornerstone of the Bill of Rights, was essential to the ratification of the Constitution on June 21, 1788. States became known, in the apocryphal words of Justice Louis Brandeis, “the laboratories of democracy.”

The modern reality is that while states function semi-autonomously, they are often starved of resources to perform the “laboratory” experiments, while enmeshed in federal-state partisan political battles and riven by federal pre-emption, a dilemma further detailed in the Columbia Law Review “The Myth of the Laboratories of Democracy,” by Charles W. Tyler and Heather K. Gerken.

Still the Tenth Amendment stands as a bulwark for states, particularly when it comes to controlling its own militia, the National Guard. The Tenth Amendment reserves to states the right to control their own National Guards, unless and until properly federalized.

By deploying troops without state consent, the President is overriding state sovereignty, undermining federal law and defying the foundational documents of the Republic.

If a governor objects to federalization, the burden is on the President to demonstrate, legally and constitutionally, why that state’s authority should be suspended over its affairs of public safety. The federal government must prove its case. Absent a collapse in law and order, the Insurrection Act cannot be used to mask political motives or suppress lawful protest.

The President’s use of the military in contravention of the Tenth Amendment is a direct assault on the structural integrity of the Union, a raw power grab.
It is not traditional political conflict, we are witnessing, it is the slow unraveling of the Republic. If authoritarian practices are unchallenged and become normalized, autocracy will transit to fascism, unless the federal courts, and ultimately, the U.S. Supreme Court intervenes quickly.

The moment harkens back to the cautionary words of Ben Franklin on September 17, 1787, uttered on the last day of the Constitutional Convention. When questioned by Elizabeth Willing Powell, a woman famous in Philadelphia social and political circles, “Well Doctor, what have we got, a republic or a monarchy?”

Franklin answered, “A Republic, if you can keep it.”

[snip]

In 2026 we will observe America’s 250th birthday. Let us honor the memory of our Founders and of those who gave their lives in defense of the principles of liberty, by celebrating the Spirit of Independence every day, committing ourselves to active citizenship which challenges at every turn any system of government or leader, or any law, which compromises our constitutionally guaranteed freedoms. It is this vigilance under which we must unite. It is this vigilance which guarantees the triumph of freedom.
**

Full article:
Maybe if people let ICE do it's job we wouldn't have this mess but as it is the children are acting up because the adults are finally telling them, No
 
Just finished reading Dennis Kucinich's article that shares the name of this thread, thought it was quite good. Quoting the introduction and conclusion of his article below:
**

The Untied States of America?​

By deploying troops without state consent, the President is overriding state sovereignty, undermining federal law and defying the foundational documents of the Republic.​

Jun 11, 2025

America is heading towards a Constitutional crisis, with the President of the United States, on his own instance, federalizing the California National Guard and sending in the Marines to support the quasi-military fugitive operations of Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), rounding up thousands of Angelenos in one of the most densely populated Hispanic and Latino counties in America—Los Angeles.

The President was not asked by local officials for help in controlling violent protests, perhaps because Los Angeles city and county together employ nearly 20,000 sworn law enforcement officers, trained and experienced in handling ambiguous and confrontational situations.

Yet, the President chose to bypass local authority, sending in 4,000 Guardsmen and 700 Marines under the authority of Title 10 of the U.S. Code, dealing with the Armed Forces, Chapter 13, which defines military operations in an insurrection, a violent uprising against the government.

However, Article II of the U.S. Constitution, which established the Executive branch and the office of the President, did not confer unfettered domestic control. The President’s power as Commander-in-Chief is limited. It does not extend to military deployment inside the United States except under sharply restricted circumstances.

The President is strictly prohibited from using active-duty federal troops for local law enforcement, arrests, or searches under the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878, unless explicitly authorized by statute. No such statutory authorization has been invoked.

(‘Posse Comitatus’ derives from Latin, “the power of the county,” relating to the ability of a Sheriff to call upon local, able-bodied citizens to assist in law enforcement.)

The controlling statute—the Insurrection Act of 1807—was passed to enable the federal government to use troops when there is an attempt to overthrow the government or when state authorities cannot or will not act to enforce the law. Where is the insurrection? Where is the rebellion? Mass protest and public unrest, however widespread or inconvenient, do not meet the legal threshold.

The Tenth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution reads:

“The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.”

This state–federal power-sharing amendment, a cornerstone of the Bill of Rights, was essential to the ratification of the Constitution on June 21, 1788. States became known, in the apocryphal words of Justice Louis Brandeis, “the laboratories of democracy.”

The modern reality is that while states function semi-autonomously, they are often starved of resources to perform the “laboratory” experiments, while enmeshed in federal-state partisan political battles and riven by federal pre-emption, a dilemma further detailed in the Columbia Law Review “The Myth of the Laboratories of Democracy,” by Charles W. Tyler and Heather K. Gerken.

Still the Tenth Amendment stands as a bulwark for states, particularly when it comes to controlling its own militia, the National Guard. The Tenth Amendment reserves to states the right to control their own National Guards, unless and until properly federalized.

By deploying troops without state consent, the President is overriding state sovereignty, undermining federal law and defying the foundational documents of the Republic.

If a governor objects to federalization, the burden is on the President to demonstrate, legally and constitutionally, why that state’s authority should be suspended over its affairs of public safety. The federal government must prove its case. Absent a collapse in law and order, the Insurrection Act cannot be used to mask political motives or suppress lawful protest.

The President’s use of the military in contravention of the Tenth Amendment is a direct assault on the structural integrity of the Union, a raw power grab.
It is not traditional political conflict, we are witnessing, it is the slow unraveling of the Republic. If authoritarian practices are unchallenged and become normalized, autocracy will transit to fascism, unless the federal courts, and ultimately, the U.S. Supreme Court intervenes quickly.

The moment harkens back to the cautionary words of Ben Franklin on September 17, 1787, uttered on the last day of the Constitutional Convention. When questioned by Elizabeth Willing Powell, a woman famous in Philadelphia social and political circles, “Well Doctor, what have we got, a republic or a monarchy?”

Franklin answered, “A Republic, if you can keep it.”

[snip]

In 2026 we will observe America’s 250th birthday. Let us honor the memory of our Founders and of those who gave their lives in defense of the principles of liberty, by celebrating the Spirit of Independence every day, committing ourselves to active citizenship which challenges at every turn any system of government or leader, or any law, which compromises our constitutionally guaranteed freedoms. It is this vigilance under which we must unite. It is this vigilance which guarantees the triumph of freedom.
**

Full article:
Maybe if people let ICE do it's job we wouldn't have this mess but as it is the children are acting up because the adults are finally telling them, No

I'd say that the children in all of this are those who don't see that the problem is the billionaires, like Trump, who don't really give a fig what the average American earns and are certainly not above contracting with companies that use undocumented migrant labour:

This is all just a show for the MAGA part of his base that likes blaming their problems on migrants instead of the plutocrats like Trump that are siphoning most of the wealth in the country:
 
I'd say that the children in all of this are those who don't see that the problem is the billionaires, like Trump, who don't really give a fig what the average American earns and are certainly not above contracting with companies that use undocumented migrant labour:

This is all just a show for the MAGA part of his base that likes blaming their problems on migrants instead of the plutocrats like Trump that are siphoning most of the wealth in the country:
Same old tired rhetoric. People here illegally need to be gone. If you wanted protection for them you nitwits shouldn't have put up a candidate that even you didn't want.
 
Human nature. Spoiled people have a quicker breaking point than people who've faced adversity most of their lives. Once people recognize that they are losing more freedoms and facing higher prices they'll begin grumbling en masse. To most Americans, it's one thing when it's illegals and MS-13 members being attacked by DHS and the US military, but it's another when it starts happening on one's own street for nebulous reasons.

It helps that the United States has more guns than people. :flagsal:
You don't recognize the similarity with 1930s Germany.
ICE is the new SS.
The German people didn't get their country back until 45 years after the war.

As for your acceptance of human nature, I don't accept that.
Humans, in my experience, aren't remotely similar enough to one another
for much of an overall human nature to exist.

We do have intellectually and morally capable people in America but not nearly enough.
They seem to be surpassed by the morally and intellectually deficient segment of the population.

I find more answers in genetics that you do--we established that long ago.
America can no longer overcome its deficient gene pool.

That's why I favor partition...
so that the apt segments of America--California, New York, New England et all--
are not dragged to the bottom by the perverted areas that are down with all of this fascist bullshit we're experience now.

Who actually thought that a blob of diseased protoplasm like Pigshit Trump was going to do anything right?
We're looking at 77 million plus totally worthless, irredeemable people, or more likely, devolved mutants.


Pass it off to human nature?
I don't think so.
I've known too many people who were better than that.
Too bad most of them are dead.
 
You don't recognize the similarity with 1930s Germany.
ICE is the new SS.
The German people didn't get their country back until 45 years after the war.

As for your acceptance of human nature, I don't accept that.
Humans, in my experience, aren't remotely similar enough to one another
for much of an overall human nature to exist.

We do have intellectually and morally capable people in America but not nearly enough.
They seem to be surpassed by the morally and intellectually deficient segment of the population.

I find more answers in genetics that you do--we established that long ago.
America can no longer overcome its deficient gene pool.

That's why I favor partition...
so that the apt segments of America--California, New York, New England et all--
are not dragged to the bottom by the perverted areas that are down with all of this fascist bullshit we're experience now.

Who actually thought that a blob of diseased protoplasm like Pigshit Trump was going to do anything right?
We're looking at 77 million plus totally worthless, irredeemable people, or more likely, devolved mutants.


Pass it off to human nature?
I don't think so.
I've known too many people who were better than that.
Too bad most of them are dead.
Yes, but I also know this isn't Germany post-WW1. Look at the conditions for a dictatorship to succeed. Just like there are requirements for a democracy to take hold, the same goes for people submitting to a dictatorship.

Germany suffered a crushing defeat from WW1 losing both a generation of men and a devastated economy. This was followed by the Great Depression. When people are suffering, it's not uncommon for the poorly educated to turn upon each other. Scapegoating a segment of the population such as the Gypsies, Gays, Trans, Jews, etc. is common in such social conditions. The French did it after their revolution and the Russians returned to authoritarianism after 70 years of Soviet rule.

While the White Nationalists are certainly scapegoating minorities, the economic situation is far different.

Additionally, the Germans, like all Euros, were used to a monarchy. A dictatorship by heritage. A fact that made the United States unique when we booted out the monarchy. Something that's in our culture for the past 250 years. Remember the angst over JFK being Catholic and the concern he'd be loyal to the Pope over the Constitution? A few generations won't erase a concern about an authoritarian government even if some idiots are currently leaning into it.
 
You don't recognize the similarity with 1930s Germany.
ICE is the new SS.
The German people didn't get their country back until 45 years after the war.

Really? Allgemeine SS or Waffen SS? How many death camps does ICE run?
That's why I favor partition...
so that the apt segments of America--California, New York, New England et all--
are not dragged to the bottom by the perverted areas that are down with all of this fascist bullshit we're experience now.

What characteristics are you using as a metric to determine if something is "fascist?"
 
Really? Allgemeine SS or Waffen SS? How many death camps does ICE run?


What characteristics are you using as a metric to determine if something is "fascist?"
If you were saner, Terry, you'd know that Hitler became a dictator first and the death camps came later.

The Reichstag was set on fire in February 1933. Hitler was given emergency powers to quell unrest including the building of camps.
 
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