Birth Right Citizenship case should be announced tomorrow... Predictions?

I do not know what they will decide. But the SCOTUS has already ruled on Birthright citizenship in 1884 19 years after the 14th amendment. https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/112/94/

They ruled the under jurisdiction clause meant not being under the jurisdiction of another political organization. American Indians BORN IN THE US between 1868 (14th Amendment) and the 1924 (Snyder Act) Were not American citizens.
Just so you know, the definition of subject to the jurisdiction has been defined in the Code of Federal Regulations since at least 1985. It is defined as any person actually within the US. (See 515.330)



§ 515.329 Person subject to the jurisdiction of the United States; person subject to U.S. jurisdiction.
The terms person subject to the jurisdiction of the United States and person subject to U.S. jurisdiction include:

(a) Any individual, wherever located, who is a citizen or resident of the United States;

(b) Any person within the United States as defined in § 515.330;





The 1985 CFR -

 
The text says this -
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.
The ruling in Elk for Indians was a result of this:

This view is confirmed by the second section of the Fourteenth Amendment, which provides that

"Representatives shall be apportioned among the several states according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each state, excluding Indians not taxed."


Indians were a separate class mentioned in the 14th amendment.


The ruling in Wong Kim Ark lays out a rather extensive history of the laws and discussions leading up to the 14th amendment.

During the debates in the senate in January ary and February, 1866, upon the civil rights bill, Mr. Trumbull, the chairman of the committee which reported the bill, moved to amend the first sentence thereof so as to read: 'All persons born in the United States, and not subject to any foreign power, are hereby declared to be citizens of the United States, without distinction of color.' Mr. Cowan, of Pennsylvania, asked 'whether it will not have the effect of naturalizing the children of Chinese and Gypsies, born in this country?' Mr. Trumbull answered, 'Undoubtedly;' and asked, 'Is not the child born in this country of German parents a citizen?' Mr.C owan replied, 'The children of German parents are citizens; but Germans are not Chinese.' Mr. Trumbull rejoined, 'The law makes no such distinction, and the child of an Asiatic is just as much a citizen as the child of a European.'


Then the ruling also points out the groups that do not get birth citizenship.

The real object of the fourteenth amendment of the constitution, in qualifying the words 'all persons born in the United States' by the addition 'and subject to the jurisdiction thereof,' would appear to have been to exclude, by the fewest and fittest words (besides children of members of the Indian tribes, standing in a peculiar relation to the national government, unknown to the common law), the two classes of cases,—children born of alien enemies in hostile occupation, and children of diplomatic representatives of a foreign state,—both of which, as has already been shown, by the law of England and by our own law, from the time of the first settlement of the English colonies in America, had been recognized exceptions to the fundamental rule of citizenship by birth within the country. Calvin's Case, 7 Coke, 1, 18b; Cockb. Nat. 7; Dicey, Confl. Laws, 177; Inglis v. Sailors' Snug Harbor, 3 Pet. 99, 155; 2 Kent, Comm. 39, 42.


The ruling also points out that Elk only applies to Indians and does not apply to foreigners in the US.

The decision in Elk v. Wilkins concerned only members of the Indian tribes within the United States, and had no tendency to deny citizenship to children born in the United States of foreign parents of Caucasian, African, or Mongolian descent, not in the diplomatic service of a foreign country.
And you still ignore the points I made to read me the text again. It will not change what I am saying about strict constructionists.
 
To me the Constitution is clear, and the Conservatives are strict constructionists. Because of that, I suspect Roberts and Barrett will side with the Liberals and say that being born here is clearly a basis for automatic citizenship.

I could be very wrong. We will see.

It will come down to Barrett.

We know how the 4 leftists will rule, and we know how the 4 Constitutionalists will rule. Barrett will decide.

The 14th IS clear. Those who entered the nation illegally are not subject to the jurisdiction of the nation. open and shut. democrats Anchor Baby scheme to end the Constitutional Republic should be thrown out unanimously. It won't be - it will be 5 - 4 either way it goes, but it should be.
 
The decision in Elk v. Wilkins concerned only members of the Indian tribes within the United States, and had no tendency to deny citizenship to children born in the United States of foreign parents of Caucasian, African, or Mongolian descent, not in the diplomatic service of a foreign country.
yep, the decision in no way settled the issue of how owing allegiance to any other country was the intent of the jurisdiction clause
 
The text says this -
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.
The ruling in Elk for Indians was a result of this:
So that the only persons born here who would not be citizens are children of foreign diplomats. Native Americans are now subject to American jurisdiction if there were not always.
 
Just so you know, the definition of subject to the jurisdiction has been defined in the Code of Federal Regulations since at least 1985. It is defined as any person actually within the US. (See 515.330)



§ 515.329 Person subject to the jurisdiction of the United States; person subject to U.S. jurisdiction.
The terms person subject to the jurisdiction of the United States and person subject to U.S. jurisdiction include:

(a) Any individual, wherever located, who is a citizen or resident of the United States;

(b) Any person within the United States as defined in § 515.330;





The 1985 CFR -

and Roe v Wade was 1973

so ....what....
 
yep, the decision in no way settled the issue of how owing allegiance to any other country was the intent of the jurisdiction clause
Yes. Elk doesn't do that.

Wong Kim Ark on the other hand does deal with that issue because his parents were subjects of the Chinese Emperor living in the US when he was born.
 
The what is the Constitution uses the phrase subject to the jurisdiction.
The way I'd see it is that the Native American population wasn't subject to the jurisdiction of the US in the sense that they were allowed self-governance outside of control of the US government politically. By the same token, foreign citizens / aliens in the US are not subject to the control of the US government in the same sense. They aren't politically governed by the US.

Yes, both groups were subject to US civil and criminal law for their personal actions but neither group could vote in elections nor were they subject to doing things like paying taxes to the government other than as applicable to foreign entities.

If the Supreme Court uses that definition, then persons born to foreign citizen parents are not citizens of the United States on birth.

If on the other hand, they go with the status quo, then such persons born in the US are citizens.

My view with illegals is they shouldn't be allowed to profit in any way from their crime(s). That means a child born to parents who are in the US illegally is not made a citizen as that act was part of an ongoing crime.
 
Just so you know, the definition of subject to the jurisdiction has been defined in the Code of Federal Regulations since at least 1985. It is defined as any person actually within the US. (See 515.330)



§ 515.329 Person subject to the jurisdiction of the United States; person subject to U.S. jurisdiction.
The terms person subject to the jurisdiction of the United States and person subject to U.S. jurisdiction include:

(a) Any individual, wherever located, who is a citizen or resident of the United States;

(b) Any person within the United States as defined in § 515.330;





The 1985 CFR -

Did you know the Constitution Trumps the Federal Code?
 
The way I'd see it is that the Native American population wasn't subject to the jurisdiction of the US in the sense that they were allowed self-governance outside of control of the US government politically. By the same token, foreign citizens / aliens in the US are not subject to the control of the US government in the same sense. They aren't politically governed by the US.

Yes, both groups were subject to US civil and criminal law for their personal actions but neither group could vote in elections nor were they subject to doing things like paying taxes to the government other than as applicable to foreign entities.

If the Supreme Court uses that definition, then persons born to foreign citizen parents are not citizens of the United States on birth.

If on the other hand, they go with the status quo, then such persons born in the US are citizens.

My view with illegals is they shouldn't be allowed to profit in any way from their crime(s). That means a child born to parents who are in the US illegally is not made a citizen as that act was part of an ongoing crime.
The way you see it isn't the way the law sees it.
The CFR says all persons in the US are subject to US jurisdiction.

If the Supreme Court uses that definition of not being politically governed then foreigners are no longer subject to US jurisdiction. That means all foreigners in the US are no longer subject to US law. Since they are no longer subject to US law that means they can't be arrested or detained in the US. The USSC would create a mess that they would no longer have jurisdiction over.
 
The way you see it isn't the way the law sees it.
The CFR says all persons in the US are subject to US jurisdiction.

If the Supreme Court uses that definition of not being politically governed then foreigners are no longer subject to US jurisdiction. That means all foreigners in the US are no longer subject to US law. Since they are no longer subject to US law that means they can't be arrested or detained in the US. The USSC would create a mess that they would no longer have jurisdiction over.
126533-Charles-Dickens-Quote-The-law-is-an-ass-an-idiot.jpg
 
The way you see it isn't the way the law sees it.
The CFR says all persons in the US are subject to US jurisdiction.

If the Supreme Court uses that definition of not being politically governed then foreigners are no longer subject to US jurisdiction. That means all foreigners in the US are no longer subject to US law. Since they are no longer subject to US law that means they can't be arrested or detained in the US. The USSC would create a mess that they would no longer have jurisdiction over.
Wrong. They are not subject to the duties and responsibilities of being a citizen. They can still be held accountable for their actions civilly and criminally. For example, if I am a foreign citizen I cannot commit treason (betray) the US government. Sure, as a foreign citizen I could act maliciously against the US government, but I can't betray it since I'm not a citizen of the US.

An example of that would be I'm a foreign citizen and spying on the US government. I could be criminally charged and penalized for that, even deported, but I couldn't be tried for treason as I am not a citizen.

 
It's always funny when quotes are taken out of context.

That is no excuse," returned Mr. Brownlow. "You were present on the occasion of the destruction of these trinkets, and, indeed, are the more guilty of the two, in the eye of the law; for the law supposes that your wife acts under your direction."

If the law supposes that," said Mr. Bumble, squeezing his hat emphatically in both hands, "the law is a ass — a idiot. If that's the eye of the law, the law is a bachelor; and the worst I wish the law is, that his eye may be opened by experience — by experience.”

 
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