house votes to expand DNA database

S

SmarterthanYou

rebel
expansion of database for arrests

Millions of Americans arrested for but not convicted of crimes will likely have their DNA forcibly extracted and added to a national database, according to a bill approved by the U.S. House of Representatives on Tuesday.

By a 357 to 32 vote, the House approved legislation that will pay state governments to require DNA samples, which could mean drawing blood with a needle, from adults "arrested for" certain serious crimes. Not one Democrat voted against the database measure, which would hand out about $75 million to states that agree to make such testing mandatory.

"We should allow law enforcement to use all the technology available to them...to reduce expensive and unjust false convictions, bring closure to victims by solving cold cases, better identify criminals, and keep those who commit violent crime from walking the streets," said Rep. Harry Teague, the New Mexico Democrat who sponsored the bill.
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anyone awake out there?
 
All part of the Wizards master plan, hell they are even requesting UC Berkley freshman to give a sample of their DNA. Of course those sheep will give it up


College Bound, DNA Swab in Hand

Instead of the usual required summer-reading book, this year’s incoming freshmen at the University of California, Berkeley, will get something quite different: a cotton swab on which they can, if they choose, send in a DNA sample.

The university said it would analyze the samples, from inside students’ cheeks, for three genes that help regulate the ability to metabolize alcohol, lactose and folates.

Those genes were chosen not because they indicate serious health risks but because students with certain genetic markers may be able to lead healthier lives by drinking less, avoiding dairy products or eating more leafy green vegetables.

Berkeley’s program for the class of 2014 is the first mass genetic testing by a university. Jasper Rine, the professor of genetics who is leading the project, said it was designed to help students learn about personalized medicine and identify their own vulnerabilities.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/19/education/19dna.html
 
It's becoming more and more a hive mentality, just as predicted by some of the great classical Sci-Fi authors. Why aren't more people wary of this?
 
Thorn said:
It's becoming more and more a hive mentality, just as predicted by some of the great classical Sci-Fi authors. Why aren't more people wary of this?
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Because for years anyone with serious criticism of the establishment has been labelled a kook. Mainstream neocons and liberals especially.

Half of them are coopted into the system already and they realize.

The protected professions, big company management, military, civil servants, teachers, all have become fascists and i think they know they're realizing it. But they go back to sleep or even start knowingly denying the obvious truth, because they feel the machine is on their side, or they are part of the machine.
 
webbway said:
All part of the Wizards master plan, hell they are even requesting UC Berkley freshman to give a sample of their DNA. Of course those sheep will give it up


College Bound, DNA Swab in Hand

Instead of the usual required summer-reading book, this year’s incoming freshmen at the University of California, Berkeley, will get something quite different: a cotton swab on which they can, if they choose, send in a DNA sample.

The university said it would analyze the samples, from inside students’ cheeks, for three genes that help regulate the ability to metabolize alcohol, lactose and folates.

Those genes were chosen not because they indicate serious health risks but because students with certain genetic markers may be able to lead healthier lives by drinking less, avoiding dairy products or eating more leafy green vegetables.

Berkeley’s program for the class of 2014 is the first mass genetic testing by a university. Jasper Rine, the professor of genetics who is leading the project, said it was designed to help students learn about personalized medicine and identify their own vulnerabilities.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/19/education/19dna.html
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"If they choose...".

Don't like it, don't choose.
 
christiefan915 said:
I read the bill here.

Those who may have DNA collected first have to be arrested.

How much different is this from being fingerprinted after an arrest? No matter which is done, the end result is for authorities to have specific and unique information on file.

If it bothers you the answer is, don't do anything to get arrested.
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i've shown on here dozens of times where one does not have to commit a crime to be arrested. does that not bother you?
 
SmarterThanYou said:
i've shown on here dozens of times where one does not have to commit a crime to be arrested. does that not bother you?
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Sure it bothers me. I've seen countless episodes of police misbehaviour, let's call it, where I live.

But about the fingerprinting or DNA... each time I gave birth the hospital took prints from me and the babies. When the kids were starting elementary school, we were asked if their prints could be taken and put on file along with a recent picture, and I agreed.

Some employers ask for fingerprints also.

I don't think that every instance of data collection is for the wrong reasons.
 
christiefan915 said:
Sure it bothers me. I've seen countless episodes of police misbehaviour, let's call it, where I live.

But about the fingerprinting or DNA... each time I gave birth the hospital took prints from me and the babies. When the kids were starting elementary school, we were asked if their prints could be taken and put on file along with a recent picture, and I agreed.

Some employers ask for fingerprints also.

I don't think that every instance of data collection is for the wrong reasons.
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For sure it almost certainly is not; I can understand the value of having your kids' fingerprints (and footprints -- don't they do that as well?). The danger lies in the misuse of the data, especially DNA. Fingerprinting has a limited, well defined utility, whereas the potential for abuse of DNA information is enormous. Once you've given it, you really have no control over how and where it's stored and used. The initial premise may be reasonable and innocuous, but that information is now on file and if at some future date (perhaps not so future, who knows?) someone in authority decides to use it otherwise you have no say -- and no privacy.
 
christiefan915 said:
Sure it bothers me. I've seen countless episodes of police misbehaviour, let's call it, where I live.

But about the fingerprinting or DNA... each time I gave birth the hospital took prints from me and the babies. When the kids were starting elementary school, we were asked if their prints could be taken and put on file along with a recent picture, and I agreed.

Some employers ask for fingerprints also.

I don't think that every instance of data collection is for the wrong reasons.
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so my concerns over government trust with DNA databases is irrelevant, because you think this is a good idea?
 
It looks like every or almost every Democrat voted for this and like 3/4ths of the Republicans did. WTF is that? Is there some money these idiots are hoping to receive from police unions or some other group that made them vote yes?
 
Thorn said:
For sure it almost certainly is not; I can understand the value of having your kids' fingerprints (and footprints -- don't they do that as well?). The danger lies in the misuse of the data, especially DNA. Fingerprinting has a limited, well defined utility, whereas the potential for abuse of DNA information is enormous. Once you've given it, you really have no control over how and where it's stored and used. The initial premise may be reasonable and innocuous, but that information is now on file and if at some future date (perhaps not so future, who knows?) someone in authority decides to use it otherwise you have no say -- and no privacy.
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This.

We already have a system where arrest, even for very minor offences such as shoplifting, can lead to DNA samples being taken and placed on a national register. In England and Wales, even if you are not convicted of a crime you can find yourself on a national DNA database, the largest in the world.

Very few people would argue with the storage of DNA from those convicted of serious offences but the indefinite retention of DNA from people who have merely been arrested and later released without charge is of dubious usefulness and at odds with with our basic human rights (our government has already been found to be in breach of the European Convention on Human Rights through their disproportionate retention of DNA).

Once you are on the list it is extremely difficult to get yourself off it. Around three quarters of the population of black men aged 16-35 have ended up on the register along with an estimated 500,000 innocent children. Perhaps that is the most worrying aspect. The police seem to have adopted a deliberate strategy of boosting the database through the arrest of children. The police have to meet their "arrest targets" and children are so much more malleable than adults aren't they?

Thankfully, we now have a government in place determined to reign back the excesses of their predecessors. We seem to have had a lucky escape, although we'll wait to see what happens. I'll gladly celebrate the day the UK climbs out of this authoritarian hole we've dug for ourselves but i hope we don't meet the USA heading in the opposite direction.
 
charver said:
This.

We already have a system where arrest, even for very minor offences such as shoplifting, can lead to DNA samples being taken and placed on a national register. In England and Wales, even if you are not convicted of a crime you can find yourself on a national DNA database, the largest in the world.

Very few people would argue with the storage of DNA from those convicted of serious offences but the indefinite retention of DNA from people who have merely been arrested and later released without charge is of dubious usefulness and at odds with with our basic human rights (our government has already been found to be in breach of the European Convention on Human Rights through their disproportionate retention of DNA).

Once you are on the list it is extremely difficult to get yourself off it. Around three quarters of the population of black men aged 16-35 have ended up on the register along with an estimated 500,000 innocent children. Perhaps that is the most worrying aspect. The police seem to have adopted a deliberate strategy of boosting the database through the arrest of children. The police have to meet their "arrest targets" and children are so much more malleable than adults aren't they?

Thankfully, we now have a government in place determined to reign back the excesses of their predecessors. We seem to have had a lucky escape, although we'll wait to see what happens. I'll gladly celebrate the day the UK climbs out of this authoritarian hole we've dug for ourselves but i hope we don't meet the USA heading in the opposite direction.
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:hand:
 
charver said:
This.

We already have a system where arrest, even for very minor offences such as shoplifting, can lead to DNA samples being taken and placed on a national register. In England and Wales, even if you are not convicted of a crime you can find yourself on a national DNA database, the largest in the world.

Very few people would argue with the storage of DNA from those convicted of serious offences but the indefinite retention of DNA from people who have merely been arrested and later released without charge is of dubious usefulness and at odds with with our basic human rights (our government has already been found to be in breach of the European Convention on Human Rights through their disproportionate retention of DNA).

Once you are on the list it is extremely difficult to get yourself off it. Around three quarters of the population of black men aged 16-35 have ended up on the register along with an estimated 500,000 innocent children. Perhaps that is the most worrying aspect. The police seem to have adopted a deliberate strategy of boosting the database through the arrest of children. The police have to meet their "arrest targets" and children are so much more malleable than adults aren't they?

Thankfully, we now have a government in place determined to reign back the excesses of their predecessors. We seem to have had a lucky escape, although we'll wait to see what happens. I'll gladly celebrate the day the UK climbs out of this authoritarian hole we've dug for ourselves but i hope we don't meet the USA heading in the opposite direction.
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I read the other day that your deputy PM is planning on doing just that.

The plan, as laid out by the deputy prime minister, Nick Clegg, would roll back a proliferation of “nanny state” laws, non-elected administrative bodies and surveillance systems — many of them a product of Labour’s 13 years in power — that critics say have curbed individual freedoms and enlarged state powers to a degree unrivaled by most other democratic societies.

Vowing that the coalition would end “the culture of spying on its citizens,” Mr. Clegg said it would “tear through the statute book,” scrapping a nationwide system of identity cards on which the Labour government spent huge sums, and abandoning a new generation of “biometric” passports that would hold a vastly expanded archive of personal data. In addition, he said, there would be new restrictions on the government’s right to intercept and hold personal Internet and e-mail traffic and to store DNA data from people not convicted of any crime.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/20/world/europe/20britain.html
 
SmarterThanYou said:
so my concerns over government trust with DNA databases is irrelevant, because you think this is a good idea?
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I've read the bill several times because I'm not seeing what you're seeing.

The Byrne Grant program is already effective in every state.

H.R. 4614 Section 2: Says that a 5% incentive will be provided if these states implement a minimum DNA collection program.

It doesn't say anything about mandates or requirements. If that was the case, no "incentive" would be needed.

Factors to be weighed might be the costs for set up and implementation of running the program, whether a state may decide if it's feasible to use the program, and whether some departments may opt out because they think it's excessive government intrusion.

Your comments suggest that it's a slam-dunk every state will implement the program but you haven't provided any info that this is probable.
 
christiefan915 said:
I've read the bill several times because I'm not seeing what you're seeing.

The Byrne Grant program is already effective in every state.

H.R. 4614 Section 2: Says that a 5% incentive will be provided if these states implement a minimum DNA collection program.

It doesn't say anything about mandates or requirements. If that was the case, no "incentive" would be needed.

Factors to be weighed might be the costs for set up and implementation of running the program, whether a state may decide if it's feasible to use the program, and whether some departments may opt out because they think it's excessive government intrusion.

Your comments suggest that it's a slam-dunk every state will implement the program but you haven't provided any info that this is probable.
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if you read out of my comments that this will be implemented in every state, then maybe you only gave my comments a cursory read. What i'm getting at is that what about the rights of the citizens in any state that implements it?
 
SmarterThanYou said:
so my concerns over government trust with DNA databases is irrelevant, because you think this is a good idea?
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I accept that the government can screw up royally, and not just DNA databases. It's likely they'd make mistakes on this. But I have to look at the up side.

It's important that criminals get caught and jailed innocent people go free because of DNA testing. Just in the last five days I heard about two murders where DNA helped to find the perps after decades, one in my area.

Families reeling following arrests in '77 killing

Cop Charged with Murder in 23-Year-Old Cold Case

The Innocence Project helped exonerate 254 people, largely through DNA testing.

I don't think cases like these can be discounted because of fears that government will screw up. "The state" has already screwed up in the above cases, and with worse outcomes than data collection.
 
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