Into the Night
Verified User
Irrelevance fallacy. All circular arguments are rational. Trying to prove them True is not.
Could A Good God Permit So Much Suffering?
- Thread starter Hume
- Start date
Logical deduction can lead one rationally to either theism or atheism.
Both worldviews start out with a framework of assumptions, and begin deduction from there.
Virtually all human intellectual endeavors begin with some type of assumptions.
False.
Also false. Only believers pose the issue this way.
That I might agree with. Axioms cannot not be proven true.
Science starts with the assumption that ultimately, all of life, the universe, and everything is rationally intelligible.
Atheists start with the assumption that physical materialism is the ultimate explanation for life, the universe, and everything.
Religious believers start with the assumption that the material and physical is not all there is to reality, and humans should be able to perceive something transcendent.
I don't care what science says about things that are not within its purview. Pure, useless, speculation.
And I never heard a scientist say that "everything is rationally intelligible."
Go argue with an atheist. This is not my position.
That's the whole point of the scientific enterprise - the assumption that life and the universe are rationally intelligible.
Otherwise, there would be no point to pursuing science.
I never read in the history of science anyone claiming that. Do you have a reference?
Whether or not you agree with their conclusions, the cosmological argument and the teleological argument are powerful logical inferences.
Additionally, even atheists scholars like Bart Herman confess that there is sufficient witness testimony to say Jesus really existed, he claimed to have divine authority, that he was crucified, that his followers genuinely believed they saw him after the crucifixion.
One can construct alternate explanations for all those logical deductions and witness testimony.
But one can't say that it is irrational blind faith.
I really do not care what an atheist scholar believes.
All religion is pretty much blind faith.
IBDaMann
Well-known member
I'm not. Let's break it down.
Nobody knows. As far as I know, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, others, might be true; no one can show otherwise. Certain specific religions, e.g. Global Warming, Climate Change, Marxism, etc., are false because they claim to be falsifiable and then follow up with false statements.
The truth value of any unfalsifiable religion is moot.
Yes. The meaning of "rational" in this case is that it is concluded logically from a system of science and math, i.e. it can be shown/demonstrated, and "irrational" simply means that it is not so concluded from such a system. I understand that there are other uses of the word "rational" involving other meanings that are used by other people in other contexts, but this is how I am using it.
You are describing why Jesus spoke in parables. There is nothing irrational about doing that, and it is not what I am discussing.
I presume you believe in salvation. Your belief is irrational, only because you can't show it to be the case through a system of math and science. Your belief in salvation is not wrong and salvation is not false. Your belief is not a lie nor is it a problem of any sort.
IBDaMann
Well-known member
Incorrect. The multiple dependencies in the circular argument preclude your ability to show it to be the case.
Based Chad
Was it me?
but the behavioral impact may indeed be worth inculcating for cooperation purposes.
except some religions highlight exactly the worst parts of religious texts.
a lie or irrationality may be rational to use if it achieves a desired outcome or positive behavioral change.
IBDaMann
Well-known member
The verb "confess" only applies to one's subjective opinion if he is apologizing for having a bad one.
It's all irrational.
Into the Night
Verified User
What 'multiple dependencies'???? Showing what case??????
IBDaMann
Well-known member
Taqiyya (also spelled taqiyah or taqiyyah) is a concept in Islamic jurisprudence that permits concealment of one's beliefs or intentions under certain circumstances, primarily to protect oneself from harm or persecution.
IBDaMann
Well-known member
I can't read your response. You don't have nearly enough question marks.