Trump half-billion dollar civil penalty thrown out by appeals court

T. A. Gardner said:
Like James and Schiff did in their mortgage applications? James' case against Trump hinged on the valuation of the property being used as collateral. Trump gave an estimated value. The banks estimated the value for themselves. Eragon offered an insanely low valuation during the trial. None of those are the true value of the property and all are not "fraudulent."

You are incapable of understanding that in order for fraud to occur there has to still be a party harmed by it. The banks weren't harmed. So, who was?
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I am not incapable of understanding anything because what you say is wrong and stupid.

HARM is not a factor in this law. See my above post about submitting fraudulent and getting turned down and yet still being chargeable.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
That's not what Trump did, and you know it. Your example is irrelevant and just gaslighting.
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What Trump did was a worse fraud.


QP! said:
So again from my prior post. And see post above for victims.


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And.


That is not what Trump did.

Trump went to court and filled out tax forms saying Mar A Lago was over valued at X million and they should pay less taxes on it, because it had no redevelopment rights as he had signed that away in a lifetime trust to not redevelop it for any other purpose. He then went across the road to the bank and said it was worth 10X based on him showing it with a redevelopment plan for the most expensive residential homes it had NO ZONING for and COULD NEVER get.

He also showed an undeveloped piece of property (7 Springs) as if it was fully built out with mansions on it and fully services when NO BUILDING had begun yet.

So when you sold your house for 10K more was it based on you lying to the buyer about what it was zoned for or lying to them telling them the house they could see out back (your neighbours) was yours too?
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QP! said:
I am not incapable of understanding anything because what you say is wrong and stupid.

HARM is not a factor in this law. See my above post about submitting fraudulent and getting turned down and yet still being chargeable.
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Harm is EVERYTHING in a civil trial. In a criminal trial, it is possible not to have harm--the crime was stopped before it could be carried out completely for example. In a civil trail, you have to show a loss to some party. That's how it works. No loss, no harm, no foul.
 
QP! said:
Exactly WHAT?
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QP! said:
Hey simpleton.

When the mortgage system collapsed in 2008 it was the TAXPAYERS who paid the cost which is EXACTLY why State AG's can and do prosecute documents fraud BEFORE things default, when they find it and they do not allow it to build up.

Also it is others getting credit or a mortgage or Insurance who DO PAY the cost of fraudulent mispriced loans in the system.

Meaning if Trump should pay 3X but only pays X due to fraud, others in the system are PAYING MORE for their loan or insurance due to how pooled risk works.
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NO FINE you moron.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
Harm is EVERYTHING in a civil trial. In a criminal trial, it is possible not to have harm--the crime was stopped before it could be carried out completely for example. In a civil trail, you have to show a loss to some party. That's how it works. No loss, no harm, no foul.
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Again stupid and wrong.

Terry does not get to say this law does not exist when it does exist and it DOES NOT require harm.

The point of the law is to prevent a 2008 default BEFORE harm happens.

Test it Terry. Go to your local banks and put in completely fraudelent docs asking for loans or insurance. Do not worry, just refuse to accept it if you are found out and when they arrest you say 'no harm. i refused the loan so i cannot be charged' and see what happens.

You are so stupid you will think that would fine to do and it is not. It is fraud.
 
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QP! said:
Again stupid and wrong.

Terry does not get to say this law does not exist when it does exist and it DOES NOT require harm.

The point of the law is to prevent a 2008 default BEFORE harm happens.

Test it Terry. Go to your local banks and put in completely fraudelent docs asking for loans or insurance. Do not worry, just refuse to accept it if you are found out and when they arrest you say 'no harm i refuse the loan so i cannot be charged' and see what happens.

You are so stupid you will think that would fine to do and it is not. It is fraud.
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The loans were already paid back IN FULL. There was no default on them. You can't prevent something after the fact.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
The loans were already paid back IN FULL. There was no default on them. You can't prevent something after the fact.
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Prevent the DEFAULT BEFORE IT HAPPENS, Terry. You are so stupid you did not comprehend that.

Based on your view, you, Terry could open a Mortgage Broker firm today and submit 100% NINJA loans all being fraudulent.

You are saying even if the government knows, and some banks fund them as long as none have defaulted YET then the gov't cannot touch you and you get to keep submitting and get paid by the banks.


If you were a less stupid person you would understand how daft your position is and why the government COULD get you for fraud prior to any default.

But you are stupid so you will read the above and not understand it.
 
QP! said:
Prevent the DEFAULT BEFORE IT HAPPENS, Terry. You are so stupid you did not comprehend that.

Based on your view, you, Terry could open a Mortgage Broker firm today and submit 100% NINJA loans all being fraudulent.

You are saying even if the government knows, and some banks fund them as long as none have defaulted YET then the gov't cannot touch you and you get to keep submitting and get paid by the banks.


If you were a less stupid person you would understand how daft your position is and why the government COULD get you for fraud prior to any default.

But you are stupid so you will read the above and not understand it.
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NO FINE YOU MORON!
 
QP! said:
Prevent the DEFAULT BEFORE IT HAPPENS, Terry. You are so stupid you did not comprehend that.

Based on your view, you, Terry could open a Mortgage Broker firm today and submit 100% NINJA loans all being fraudulent.

You are saying even if the government knows, and some banks fund them as long as none have defaulted YET then the gov't cannot touch you and you get to keep submitting and get paid by the banks.


If you were a less stupid person you would understand how daft your position is and why the government COULD get you for fraud prior to any default.

But you are stupid so you will read the above and not understand it.
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What default are you talking about? Do you mean potential, future, fantasy loans that Trump might take out? If so, now you're in the realm of "Thought Crimes."
 
T. A. Gardner said:
What default are you talking about? Do you mean potential, future, fantasy loans that Trump might take out? If so, now you're in the realm of "Thought Crimes."
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Do you think it is fine and legal to open a Mortgage Brokerage that ONLY creates and shops fraudulent loan documents to banks across the country in the attempt to get loans and commissions?

Is your view it is fine to do that and even get the loans and nothing can be done up and until one of the loans defaults?

Is it your view the gov't could not stop you... could not charge you with fraud even if you submitted lots of them, as long as there has been no default?


Because those type of offenses are charged as fraud all the time BEFORE any such default happens and even if not one loan is funded. Guys in Car dealership finance offenses get busted for faking income and other frauds for loans that were never funded ALL THE TIME.

That is not a 'thought crime' just because no default has happened. Be less stupid.
 
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