Why women have abortions

[EdwinA]

On the contrary, in a discussion, what the participants believe shapes the entire discussion.

What facts are posted makes for a discussion. You just want to make up ideological nonsense and ignore facts, is all, hence no discussions possible with you liars.

 

[EdwinA]

de facto realities exist outside the lies you tell yourself.

Which is why they have no interest in real discussions. Nothing in reality supports their nonsense.

 

[Phyllis Diller]

The goal of Phyllis and most if not all of those here who are against the right of most pregnant women to choose to have abortions is to muddy the waters between humans who have been born and humans who haven't been. This is why they like ambiguous words like human, human life, baby and child rather than one word that everyone knows the specific meaning of, (human) fetus.

there's no difference.

its crystal clear.

you're the muddier.

 

[Phyllis Diller]

So you're saying that it makes "sense to refuse to give pregnant women abortions when their situation is so dire that their child will die within the first 5 years of life"?

yes.

On the contrary, I'm doing my best to point out why I believe what I believe- in this case, the best way to do this is to make it clear that I see a human fetus as less valuable than the pregnant female who hosts it. This is hard to do if people such as yourself keep on using ambiguous words such as baby, child and human life, words that muddy the waters as to what, precisely, we're talking about.

so why do you?

you have failed in your mission so far.

 

[Scott]

In other words, you are defining as "convenience" any cases where rape, [incest] or life of the mother is not the reason given.

I am considering these specific items as parts of the overarching category of "convenience":

• Other physical health concerns: 2.2%[7]
• Abnormality in the unborn baby: 1.2%[8]
• Elective and unspecified reasons: 95.9%[9]

Some points:
1- Being concerned for one's physical health should never be considered a "convenience"
2- Abnormality in an unborn baby can have severe repercussions for both parents and the fetus, should the mother decide to carry it to term. Again, I don't see how you could think of this as mere "convenience".
3- Elective and unspecified reasons is pretty vague, so again, I think blanketing this whole category as "convenience" isn't fair.

Keep [in] mind that in many cases, there is no reason given, meaning that it could actually be one of those reasons and we just don't know it. I think it's clear that we don't agree on the definition of convenience when it comes to abortions.

Convenience: the quality of desiring less effort/difficulty in order to do something.

For example, the necessity to take a detour when driving to a destination is inconvenient because it is harder and takes longer to arrive at the destination than if one could simply drive down the more direct road that has now been closed due to repair work. Using THAT road is convenient. Using the detour road is inconvenient.

I agree that your example is a fairly good one for what is inconvenient. Continuing...

For a woman who has no intention of birthing and rearing a child, becoming pregnant is an inconvenience for her. She wouldn't be able to "hang out with the girls whenever" like she used to do (because she now needs that time to rear a child). That's an inconvenience to her.

Tell me something, have you actually spoken to someone who's actually -had- an abortion as to why they did so? Somehow, I doubt that most if not all of them would have said "because I wouldn't have been able to hang out with the girls anymore". You may wish to take a look at the opening post of this thread- it lists the reasons given for having abortions, starting with the most common one- financial circumstances (40%).

Children born with abnormalities and health concerns require extra care during their lives. That's an inconvenience.

Just an "inconvenience"? I suspect you don't know many people who have disabled children. Here's a bit from a paper on raising disabled children and how it not only affects the family unit, but the disabled child themselves:
**

Implications for the Family​

Living with a disabled child can have profound effects on the entire family—parents, siblings, and extended family members. It is a unique shared experience for families and can affect all aspects of family functioning. On the positive side, it can broaden horizons, increase family members’ awareness of their inner strength, enhance family cohesion, and encourage connections to community groups or religious institutions. On the negative side, the time and financial costs, physical and emotional demands, and logistical complexities associated with raising a disabled child can have far-reaching effects as we describe below. The impacts will likely depend on the type of condition and severity, as well as the physical, emotional, and financial wherewithal of the family and the resources that are available to them.

For parents, having a disabled child may increase stress, take a toll on mental and physical health, make it difficult to find appropriate and affordable child care, and affect decisions about work, education/training, having additional children, and relying on public support. It may be associated with guilt, blame, or reduced self-esteem. It may divert attention from other aspects of family functioning. The out-of-pocket costs of medical care and other services may be enormous. All of these potential effects could have repercussions for the quality of the relationship between the parents, their living arrangements, and future relationships and family structure. Having a disabled child may also affect parents’ allocation of time and financial resources to their healthy and unhealthy children, their parenting practices, their expectations of healthy siblings in terms of achievement, responsibility, and short- and long-term contributions to the household, and the siblings’ health and development. Finally, having a disabled child in the family may affect the contributions of time and financial resources on the part of the child’s grandparents or other extended family members, the relationships of those individuals to the core family, and the financial, physical, and emotional wellbeing of those family members. All of these potential effects on families have implications for the health and well-being of disabled children.
**

Source:

Impact of Child Disability on the Family - PMC

Families with disabled children represent a sizeable share of all American households. Living with a disabled child can have profound effects on the entire family, which in turn can affect the health and well-being of the child who is disabled. A ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Yakuda]

Have you ever actually spoken with someone who's had an abortion?

Sadly two women. So what? Have you ever talked to someone whose biological father was her mother's rapist? I have.

 

[gfm7175]

Tell me something, have you actually spoken to someone who's actually -had- an abortion as to why they did so? Somehow, I doubt that most if not all of them would have said "because I wouldn't have been able to hang out with the girls anymore".

I made up an example reason. There are all sorts of reasons out there; almost all of them fall under the "convenience" umbrella.

Just an "inconvenience"?

Not "just an inconvenience", but it IS an inconvenience nonetheless. It takes a lot of extra work to raise a child with a disability.

I suspect you don't know many people who have disabled children.

I do, actually. My best friend is blind in one eye. My best friend's son is autistic. My best friend's brother is mute. They are all God's children and they are all loved, regardless of all the extra work and care that is required during their lives due to their conditions.