Abortion

[gfm7175]

I started this discussion with Lefty because he seemed to be saying that if there is consciousness/sentience/awareness, there is killing. I am highly skeptical of this,

I'd instead say something along the lines of "if there is LIFE, and said life is snuffed out, then there is killing".

because I believe that many non human animals may have these qualities and yet most people still slaughter them for their supper on a daily basis. I include myself here.

Yes, those animals are being killed.

Thus, the important thing should not be whether an animal has a heartbeat

This is a very clear and indisputable sign of life. No fauna with a heartbeat has ever been considered "dead". If you snuff the life out of an animal, then it will no longer have a heartbeat.

or even harder to discern things like whether they have some level of consciousness/sentience/awareness,

I'm not interested in "mucking up the waters". The presence of a heartbeat is VERY easy to discern.

but what -level- this consciousness/sentience/awareness is at.

Why? That's even HARDER to discern than the "whether they have some level of consciousness/sentience/awareness" part that you literally just got done rejecting due to its discernment difficulty.

Why not just stick with what's very easy to discern, such as the presence of a heartbeat?

Also, the issue of bodily independence is very important in my view- I think that no female should be forced to grow a fetus inside her.

Do you consider a female's choice to gamble to be "forcing a female to grow a fetus inside her"?

I also think that if a female has doubts about growing a fetus inside her, she should probably terminate it as soon as possible because the longer it grows inside her, the more consciousness/sentience/awareness said fetus has.

I think that if a female has such doubts, then she shouldn't gamble.

 

[AProudLefty]

@AProudLefty is trolling, as always.

^ Projecting as always.

 

[AProudLefty]

What "Christian supremacy"?

Forcing underage victims of rape and incest to carry fetuses to full term in the name of Jesus.

 

[gfm7175]

Forcing underage victims of rape and incest to carry fetuses to full term in the name of Jesus.

@IBDaMann Yup, you were correct. Trolling, as always.

 

[AProudLefty]

I believe that gfm backed you up that you have this disagreement with Into the Night. So I think that your disagreement with ItN on this is probably true. What I am not sure about is whether Lefty knows about this disagreement. @AProudLefty , have you heard about this disagreement?

No I have not.

 

[AProudLefty]

1) I'm for preserving human life rather than destroying it.

So am I.

2) I'm for punishing guilty humans rather than punishing innocent humans.

So am I.

3) Who said anything about "underage"

Teenagers having abortions are a subset.

4) Who said anything about "Christian"?

You did.

 

[IBDaMann]

Forcing underage victims of rape and incest to carry fetuses to full term in the name of Jesus.

You have never explained why innocent bystanders somehow deserve the death penalty.

 

[IBDaMann]

So am I.

Nope. You are for killing supremacy, and for innocent bystanders to be summarily executed without legal representation or any day in court.

So am I.

You are not only for the punishment of the innocent, you are for the innocent receiving the full death penalty without so much as a jury trial.

Teenagers having abortions are a subset.

You did.

Nope. You are infusing red herrings as a distraction.

 

[AProudLefty]

Nope. You are for killing supremacy, and for innocent bystanders to be summarily executed without legal representation or any day in court.

Omniscience fallacy. You don't get to speak for me.

You are not only for the punishment of the innocent, you are for the innocent receiving the full death penalty without so much as a jury trial.

See above.

Nope. You are infusing red herrings as a distraction.

The distraction is done by you.

 

[AProudLefty]

You have never explained why innocent bystanders somehow deserve the death penalty.

Shifting the term again?

 

[IBDaMann]

Shifting the term again?

Great random statement. You have never explained why innocent bystanders somehow deserve the death penalty.

 

[AProudLefty]

Great random statement. You have never explained why innocent bystanders somehow deserve the death penalty.

You shifted the term fetus to "innocent bystander ". It is a red herring. A distraction.

 

[IBDaMann]

[EVASIVE trolling omitted]

Your posts advocate for killing supremacy. In your posts, you advocate for innocent bystanders to receive the death penalty. That's rather shitty.

 

[IBDaMann]

You shifted the term fetus to "innocent bystander ". It is a red herring. A distraction.

You are likely thinking of someone else. Are you claiming that I became more specific, i.e. noting that the living human in this case is merely an innocent bystander on whom you wish to levee a death sentence?

I stipulate that that is exactly what I did. Yes.

 

[AProudLefty]

Your posts advocate for killing supremacy. In your posts, you advocate for innocent bystanders to receive the death penalty. That's rather shitty.

Omniscience fallacy. You don't get to speak for me.

 

[AProudLefty]

You are likely thinking of someone else. Are you claiming that I became more specific, i.e. noting that the living human in this case is merely an innocent bystander on whom you wish to levee a death sentence?

I stipulate that that is exactly what I did. Yes.

Bystander implies a sentient person who is a witness to an event.

Nice try with the distraction. Your Jedi mind trick won't work.

 

[IBDaMann]

Bystander implies a sentient person who is a witness to an event.

Nope. "Bystander" implies one who is standing by, regardless of any other traits or characteristics.

 

[AProudLefty]

Nope. "Bystander" implies one who is standing by, regardless of any other traits or characteristics.

Definition of bystander - a person who is present at an event or incident but does not take part.

 

[TOP]

An abortion terminates an unborn child...When a woman miscarries, she loses her unborn child...
This isn't difficult...

 

[IBDaMann]

An abortion terminates an unborn child

What does "terminates" mean? I would ask that you spell it out.

...When a woman miscarries, she loses her unborn child...

What does "loses" mean? I would ask you to spell it out. Are you saying that she simply misplaces her unborn child? What is the precise wording for what you are trying to express?

This isn't difficult...

So let's get through this ... what is an "abortion"? Can we accurately describe abortions as killings of not-yet-born living humans? Can we accurately refer to doctor-assisted abortions as contract killings of not-yet-born living humans?