A beginner's guide to being an atheist, by Richard Dawkins

Cypress said:
Thanks for chiming in.

There is nothing in my everyday experience or my intuition that tells me, conscience, free will, and love freely given to others are illusions.

Whatever kicked off the process of life and evolution, I don't see any reason why it should be out to trick us.

The concept of boundaries and infinite universes is pure speculation, and there is nothing approaching a consensus about it.
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There is no known boundary to the Universe. That does not require consensus.
Cypress said:
I have read that a universe with positive spacial curvature is not infinite,
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Space is not a curve.
Cypress said:
and nothing exists outside the space time of this universe,
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By definition.
Cypress said:
because the universe is not expanding into "something".
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Yet you said it was. Which is it, dude?

Cypress said:
Even a vaccum is 'something', it has three spatial dimensions, length, width, and height, and one temporal dimension at a minimum.
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Dimensions are not space or time. Zero is only what you want to use at the time. There are no known boundary to the Universe.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
As Trump, an atheist, is proving in his mass murder of South American fishermen. This includes eugenics by aborting, both pre- and post-birth, defective babies. :thup:

It's also why, when the civil war starts, I'll have no problem executing MAGAts as domestic enemies of the Constitution. BAMM!! One shot in the back of the head. Merciful, quick, painless. No need to be cruel. :)
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Trump is not an atheist. The reason you are in the institution is due to your violent tendencies.
Trump is not a Democrat.
 
Cypress said:
ftfy

"Simply lacking a belief" is just a psychological state of mind. It's not a truth claim.
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It isn't psychology at all. No one ever said it was a 'Truth Claim'.
Cypress said:
My cat lacks belief in God.
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You don't get to speak for your cat. You don't know what your cat believes.
Cypress said:
That does not make her an atheist.
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Conclusion based on void predicate.
Cypress said:
Atheism, as almost universally accepted by the seminal atheist authors and influencers of the last 150 years is a belief that there is nothing like a god, a tao, a universal spirit, and that matter and energy adequately explain life, the universe, and everything.
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Redefinition fallacy. Atheism is simply lack of theism. It does NOT claim there is no god or gods. It does NOT claim there is a god or gods.
Matter is not an explanation. Energy is not an explanation. Neither matter nor energy is a religion.
 
domer76 said:
Can’t help you, dude, on your need for some deity or religion as a source for human moral behavior. You’ll have to argue with cultural anthropologists who say you’re full of shit. The same experts will tell you that murder, selfishness, greed, non-cooperation, etc. are traits not conducive to the survival of the clan, so moral codes against those behaviors developed. Argue with them, not me.

Moral behavior comes naturally to us as a species. It’s actually one of man’s inventions - religion - that is a major flaw in that behavior.

Your entire body and being is one mass of biochemical reactions. To deny that is absurd. The fact that species have evolved with traits that increase their odds of survival, including that motherly love, is undeniable. Motherly love is common across many species of animals.

Different emotions stimulate reactions in different parts of the human brain. To deny that is absurd. If you do, you’ll have to argue with neuroscientists who will say you’re full of shit.
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Except for the brief period of time I tried to convince myself atheism made sense, I have always thought there is more to this universe than just matter and energy.

If our bodies and brains are nothing but the deterministic motions and chemical reactions of electrons, then we might as stop talking about morality. Morality is just an illusion, and we're kidding ourselves by saying there is any such thing as morality.

It's just preferences and opinions.
History is pregnant with examples of people who got ahead by lying and cheating.

Plenty of societies thought it was absolutely necessary to sacrifice children, have slaves, abandon babies, practice female infanticide.

It's only our opinions that those things are absolutely wrong in a materialistic worldview.

Oskar Schindler did not risk his life to save the lives of thousands of strangers because he was thinking about how to make society stable. He did it because his conscience apprehended absolute good from evil.

It is absolutely false that what we consider conventional morality just comes to us naturally. Trying to live a life completely free of lying, cheating, greed, selfishness, sexual immorality, self-centered vanity, resentment, hate, etc. is virtually impossible, even though our conscience tells us what we ought to be doing.
 
Cypress said:
Except for the brief period of time I tried to convince myself atheism made sense, I have always thought there is more to this universe than just matter and energy.

If our bodies and brains are nothing but the deterministic motions and chemical reactions of electrons, then we might as stop talking about morality. Morality is just an illusion, and we're kidding ourselves by saying there is any such thing as morality.

It's just preferences and opinions.
History is pregnant with examples of people who got ahead by lying and cheating.

Plenty of societies thought it was absolutely necessary to sacrifice children, have slaves, abandon babies, practice female infanticide.

It's only our opinions that those things are absolutely wrong in a materialistic worldview.

Oskar Schindler did not risk his life to save the lives of thousands of strangers because he was thinking about how to make society stable. He did it because his conscience apprehended absolute good from evil.

It is absolutely false that what we consider conventional morality just comes to us naturally. Trying to live a life completely free of lying, cheating, greed, selfishness, sexual immorality, self-centered vanity, resentment, etc. is virtually impossible, even though our conscience tells us what we ought to do.
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Morality is entirely practical. Nothing to do with pro-religion or anti-religion.
 
Cypress said:
Except for the brief period of time I tried to convince myself atheism made sense, I have always thought there is more to this universe than just matter and energy.

If our bodies and brains are nothing but the deterministic motions and chemical reactions of electrons, then we might as stop talking about morality. Morality is just an illusion, and we're kidding ourselves by saying there is any such thing as morality.

It's just preferences and opinions.
History is pregnant with examples of people who got ahead by lying and cheating.

Plenty of societies thought it was absolutely necessary to sacrifice children, have slaves, abandon babies, practice female infanticide.

It's only our opinions that those things are absolutely wrong in a materialistic worldview.

Oskar Schindler did not risk his life to save the lives of thousands of strangers because he was thinking about how to make society stable. He did it because his conscience apprehended absolute good from evil.

It is absolutely false that what we consider conventional morality just comes to us naturally. Trying to live a life completely free of lying, cheating, greed, selfishness, sexual immorality, self-centered vanity, resentment, hate, etc. is virtually impossible, even though our conscience tells us what we ought to be doing.
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Our bodies are biochemical machines. You can stop talking or keep talking about morality all you want. One has nothing to do with the other.
 
domer76 said:
Our bodies are biochemical machines. You can stop talking or keep talking about morality all you want. One has nothing to do with the other.
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Then there is no point talking about morality. It's an illusion, because morality, free will, choice can't exist in a system of deterministic electrochemical reactions between electrons.

Of course it's supremely relevant. It might not be convenient that our beliefs and the nature of of our minds are inextricably linked, but they are.
 
Hume said:
Cypress stopped pretending he is an agnostic. He is just a religious fundamentalist.
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I've repeatedly said there are no labels that really fit me, though agnostic came the closest.

Expert for my brief flirtation with atheism, I've always thought there is more to life, the universe, and everything than just matter and energy.

It's a serious philosophical question about how electrons could possibly create morality and free will. There is nothing real and true about morality if it's all just electrons and quarks. We just acquire the illusion that there is absolute right and wrong. It's not real.
 
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gmark77 said:
The stupid...it hurts! :cuss:
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ftfy...Just howling that I'm stupid does nothing to answer the question.

The mind-body problem has been a lasting question in western philosophy for 500 years at least.

How do electrons create a sense of absolute right and wrong?
If it's all just down to electrons, there is no morality, just subjective preferences.
 
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Cypress said:
Then there is no point talking about morality. It's an illusion, because morality, free will, choice can't exist in a system of deterministic electrochemical reactions between electrons.

Of course it's supremely relevant. It might not be convenient that our beliefs and the nature of of our minds are inextricably linked, but they are.
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If there’s no point in talking about it, then don’t.

You can opine that it’s an illusion or that it and free will don’t exist just because we are biochemical machines. Great. Knock yourself out.

Next.
 
Cypress said:
I've repeatedly said there are no labels that really fit me, though agnostic came the closest.

Expert for my brief flirtation with atheism, I've always thought there is more to life, the universe, and everything than just matter and energy.

It's a serious philosophical question about how electrons could possibly create morality and free will. There is nothing real and true about morality if it's all just electrons and quarks. We just acquire the illusion that there is absolute right and wrong. It's not real.
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The universe is neutral. It doesn’t give a flying shit about your existence one little bit. You came from the stars and you’ll return there someday.
 
domer76 said:
If there’s no point in talking about it, then don’t.

You can opine that it’s an illusion or that it and free will don’t exist just because we are biochemical machines. Great. Knock yourself out.

Next.
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Look chap, the quarks and electrons in your brain are exactly the same as those in a rock.

Nobody, including you, can even remotely explain how morality, free will, conscience comes from these subatomic particles.

While you have been giving thanks notifications to posters who call me stupid, this question is actually a long-standing question in science and philosophy, and I think it's one of the major limiting problems for a physical materialist worldview.
 
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