Because you canโt.
๐ฅ๐ฒ๐ป๐ฒ๐ฒ ๐๐ผ๐ผ๐ฑ ๐ฒ๐บ๐ฎ๐๐ฐ๐๐น๐ฎ๐๐ฒ๐ฑ ๐๐๐ ๐ถ๐ป๐ฐ๐ฒ๐น ๐ฝ๐๐๐๐ ๐๐ผ๐ป๐ฎ๐๐ต๐ฎ๐ป ๐ ๐ฅ๐ผ๐๐.
- Thread starter Nomad
- Start date
Truth, but there is a ruling and a law that says they can ask you to exit a vehicle, and it is a lawful order. There are also laws against obstruction, etc.
Just an FYI... I think it is tragic that this woman was shot. It could have been so easily avoided.
I would recommend that y'all keep protesting, just with the addendum that when they tell you to get out of the car, get out. Publish some things on how to do this without getting killed. If they tell you to exit the vehicle and instead you drive your car at an officer, even "softly" in the opinion of folks watching, you have nearly infinitely increased your chance of getting shot.
Do what they say at that point. Obstruction arrests almost invariably are vacated before booking, they just let you go. She'd be alive. It is very likely they would have let her wife drive the car away even.
These protests are effective, and they can continue to be safely. The same action, with her getting out of the vehicle when ordered to (lawful order, remember) changes everything without removing the effectiveness of the protest.
Monad Portal
Was it me?
they can only order you out on a traffic stop and if they find further probable cause.
the ramming changes everything.
and there was ramming.
be right for the right reasons damo.
What right did they have to ask an American citizen to exist their car?
As I said... Do not drive the car at an agent. You didn't read.
Monad Portal
Was it me?
nah. you were on all this shit about ... " if an officer orders you out of your car...."/
that's bullshit.
we can win without trampling the constitution.
First. They can stop or detain people who are obstructing their duties. In this case the car was already stopped but it is the same. They were detaining her. During any detention they can ask you to exit your vehicle, ruling is Pennsylvania v. Mimms, 434 U.S. 106 (1977), the ruling was later extended to include passengers as well. They can order you and your passengers to exit the vehicle lawfully. I recommend doing so if they order it, because resisting never works well after that point.
Please understand, this isn't about whether I support ICE or the other side. I just want folks to be able to exercise their rights safely. All of them.
How was she obstructing their duty? Other vehicles were able to go around her vehicle?
At the point they order her to exit the vehicle it is a detention. The point to argue whether it is a valid detentiom is in court, not in the street.
I give this same advice to the guys doing first amendment audits. If they are going to "break the law" in your opinion, and you think they have no reason to say you are obstructing it does not change that they can order you out of the vehicle for their safety (they think you might drive the vehicle at officers), the ruling allows them to ask you, and your passengers to exit the vehicle during the interaction for that safety.
At that point we are at the beginning of that obstruction investigation... Regardless, they can ask you to exit your vehicle and once they do it will always be my recommendation you follow that order, because it is considered lawful and I have never seen anything good come from fighting it.
If they tell you to get out?
No, when they ask you to get out...and if they do it in a reasonable way,
That creature who came up to the car and attempted to force the door open and seemed threatening as hell...is not asking or even telling anyone to get out. He was about as threatening as a wolf or bear. If it were my mother, wife, sister, aunt...I would say, "Get the hell out of there any way you can." I would no more tell any of them to obey...than I would ask them to open and get out for a wolf or bear or a vampire or an obviously drunk or crazed individual.
The creature, supposedly a lawman, was an abomination who escalated whatever was going on. He should be tried for at least manslaughter. A jury should decide if he is guilty under the laws that will be explained by a judge.
QUESTION: Where is Kash Patel? Where?
Not a gun person are you? It's called a magazine not a clip. You won't last long.
They can order you out. It doesn't have to be nice. Though IMHO, and if I were running their training, it would be.
I added something while you were posting.
There is no way I would ask a female relative of mine to follow the "get out" given by that animal who ordered her to get out. No way in hell. We just disagree there.
Sure gramps.
I would get out of the car if it were me. But of course it wouldn't be me because I had to work that day and didn't have time to play shitty games and win shitty prizes.
Trouble with you people is you encourage your minions to do stuff that's not best for them. And the less intelligent ones go full ahead.
I heard there's a go fund me that's already raised over 2 mil. Wish I had a disposable wife.
They will be charged with murder because there was no legal right to approach or stop those women. Eye witnesses stated they were not obstructing the officers activities.
What they did was illegal, they had no probable cause and the women knew it. There was also testimony officers were giving conflicting commands.
I have challenged an officer who stopped me. It is our right to do so, if there is no probable cause.
I would recommend it to anyone for the following reasons: First, there are a zillion cameras around in this circumstance, one is her wife's. Second, not following the order will at the very least end with your car damaged and you still in cuffs with even more evidence you were "obstructing", at the most will wind up with you doing something foolish like driving at an officer and can end with violence.
We need more de-escalation training. Lots and lots more. But none of that changes my advice. Once they are interacting enough for a detention, and they tell you to leave the vehicle (or ask), leave the vehicle. You will be leaving the vehicle after that order regardless, do it on your own power... It will always serve you better.
You are a jerkoff...and apparently cannot be much more than a jerkoff.
I suggest you take "get over being a jerkoff" lessons. You need them more than most.
I can tell you if I were ever confronted with a lawman ordering me out of my car the way that asshole ordered her...and a female relative of mine were in the car...I would drive off and, if possible, head toward a police station if I knew where one was.
Okay, Damo. We have a different perspective on how to handle the kind of situation with which she was confronted. She did not know there was an even worse animal in front of her ready to shoot her in the face...and in my estimation, she did what any frightened woman would do.
But I understand what you are saying.
QP!
Verified User
A mob attacking and beating cops have weapons via their sheer numbers, thus why they can over run and beat cops savagely, something they could not do otherwise.
So you are wrong on that point.
To your other point, you are correct. If not for Ashley's and her mobs actions and if she had only followed the law and not took escalating step after escalating step to get passed or beat the cops who got between them and the Congress people they were hunting and threatening, then she would not have died that day. She is at fault for what happened to her that day. Glad on that part we agree.