tax exempt status for religions

[Good Luck]

please remember my first statement- -'i think that religions should not have any tax exempt status except for charitable work that does not further their religious views'

i am willing to concede that some religions perform 'community benefits' but they are rarely altruistic and are usually performed to promote their brand of religion

And that is where you start tramping on the 1st Amendment. Who the FUCK are you to tell ANY organization what they can promote? Churches do a LOT of good in their communities. And it's too bad small minded little anti-religion fucks like you have to get your dander up because you do not like other peoples' belief in God.

Again: the classification is "community benefit organization". If you want to tell religious people that they derive no benefit from their church, so YOU think they should be taxed, go ahead. It just shows that when push comes to shove which side of the God question is actually chomping at the bit to force their views on everyone else.

I guess that mean those of us who believe Green Peace provides no community benefit of worth, so they should lose their tax free status also?

Who is to define the benefit from a community benefit organization? Those who belong to it and derive benefit from their membership, or outsiders who don't like the particular message of said group?

 

[Good Luck]

actually, giving tax advantages to religion may be argued as providing establishment of religion over non-religions

Only by idiots with an anti-religious agenda. Tax exempt status is granted all kinds of organizations, as stated above, that fall under the general heading of "community benefit organization". Churches are not businesses. Therefore they do not compete, so tax exemption is of no advantage over anyone else. If you are a for profit business, you pay taxes. If you are an individual, you pay taxes. If you are a non-profit, you do not pay taxes. And if you are a community benefit organization, you do not pay taxes. You have a bug up your ass about it because you do not like religion. Too bad for you.

as for taxing, does not the bible say 'render unto caeser that which is caeser's'

Just shows your complete and total ignorance of the bible. Sure, you can quote a few verses, but have zero concept what it means.

The story that contains that quote was about officials trying to get Jesus to make a comment they could use against Him. The idea was to get Him to say paying taxes to Rome was wrong (a prevailing view derived from Mosaic Law), thereby allowing them to accuse Him of rebellion against Rome. OTOH, if Jesus had simply said paying taxes to Rome was OK (note that it was specifically ROMAN taxes in question, not local taxes) then they could accuse him of going against Mosaic Law. But Jesus message was that such issues were of little relevance to His message. You anti-religion Bible "scholars" always leave out the rest of the statement "and render unto God what is God's." Or, in vernacular of today, "don't worry yourself about the material world, but instead prepare yourself for eternity with the Father."

and if everyone pays taxes, then how does taxing religions prevent their free exercise - religions have to purchase their physical needs such as churches, temples, vestments, etc. so why not pay for the city, county, state and federal services provided - churches have to pay their water, heating and cooling bills so why not for the roads that permit their worshipers to travel to church

So, why not make Muscular Dystrophy Association pay for the government facilities they use? Or March of Dimes? Or National Audubon Society? Or Arbor Day Foundation?

larger religions benefit more than smaller religions and new religions have to fight through initial phases to claim tax exempt status which costs money

Well, I guess we could just allow anyone to claim they are a religion. Fill out the right form, and enjoy tax free status. Would that work?

tax exempt status gives religions an advantage over other businesses - a religion should be able to raise sufficient funds to provide for its needs

We do raise funds for our needs. What do you think Churches do? But we are not in competition with for-profit business any more than other types of community benefit organizations are. Churches are not the only non-profits that do things like build youth recreation centers. Since they compete with for-profit recreation centers, should we tax them all? Or just tax the church sponsored ones because you don't like religion?

if religions rent space for services, should the landlord be able to claim a tax exemption or should he discount their rent even if he does not believe in the religion

If the landlord makes money, they pay taxes no matter who is giving them the money for renting their property. Don't be even more stupid than you already are.

No one has ever, to my knowledge, brought forth the idea that people should be COMPELLED to donate anything to churches. So stuff that implied strawman and light it.

OTOH, if the landlord chooses to discount his rent because he is renting to a church (or any other not-for-profit or community benefit organization) then he can use the difference on his own taxes, just as if he'd donated the same amount of money.

 

[Don Quixote]

Only by idiots with an anti-religious agenda. Tax exempt status is granted all kinds of organizations, as stated above, that fall under the general heading of "community benefit organization". Churches are not businesses. Therefore they do not compete, so tax exemption is of no advantage over anyone else. If you are a for profit business, you pay taxes. If you are an individual, you pay taxes. If you are a non-profit, you do not pay taxes. And if you are a community benefit organization, you do not pay taxes. You have a bug up your ass about it because you do not like religion. Too bad for you.


Just shows your complete and total ignorance of the bible. Sure, you can quote a few verses, but have zero concept what it means.

The story that contains that quote was about officials trying to get Jesus to make a comment they could use against Him. The idea was to get Him to say paying taxes to Rome was wrong (a prevailing view derived from Mosaic Law), thereby allowing them to accuse Him of rebellion against Rome. OTOH, if Jesus had simply said paying taxes to Rome was OK (note that it was specifically ROMAN taxes in question, not local taxes) then they could accuse him of going against Mosaic Law. But Jesus message was that such issues were of little relevance to His message. You anti-religion Bible "scholars" always leave out the rest of the statement "and render unto God what is God's." Or, in vernacular of today, "don't worry yourself about the material world, but instead prepare yourself for eternity with the Father."


So, why not make Muscular Dystrophy Association pay for the government facilities they use? Or March of Dimes? Or National Audubon Society? Or Arbor Day Foundation?


Well, I guess we could just allow anyone to claim they are a religion. Fill out the right form, and enjoy tax free status. Would that work?


We do raise funds for our needs. What do you think Churches do? But we are not in competition with for-profit business any more than other types of community benefit organizations are. Churches are not the only non-profits that do things like build youth recreation centers. Since they compete with for-profit recreation centers, should we tax them all? Or just tax the church sponsored ones because you don't like religion?


If the landlord makes money, they pay taxes no matter who is giving them the money for renting their property. Don't be even more stupid than you already are.

No one has ever, to my knowledge, brought forth the idea that people should be COMPELLED to donate anything to churches. So stuff that implied strawman and light it.

OTOH, if the landlord chooses to discount his rent because he is renting to a church (or any other not-for-profit or community benefit organization) then he can use the difference on his own taxes, just as if he'd donated the same amount of money.

it is not that i do not like religion, i do not like organized religion which i still claim has done more harm than good over the millenniums

 

[Minister of Truth]

actually, giving tax advantages to religion may be argued as providing establishment of religion over non-religions

as for taxing, does not the bible say 'render unto caeser that which is caeser's'

and if everyone pays taxes, then how does taxing religions prevent their free exercise - religions have to purchase their physical needs such as churches, temples, vestments, etc. so why not pay for the city, county, state and federal services provided - churches have to pay their water, heating and cooling bills so why not for the roads that permit their worshipers to travel to church

larger religions benefit more than smaller religions and new religions have to fight through initial phases to claim tax exempt status which costs money

tax exempt status gives religions an advantage over other businesses - a religion should be able to raise sufficient funds to provide for its needs

if religions rent space for services, should the landlord be able to claim a tax exemption or should he discount their rent even if he does not believe in the religion

The line about Caesar is simply an instruction to not fight the tax if it comes about. We can still object to liberal's unflinching, masterbatory love of all things tax-related.

Also, not all religions in America follow the Bible...

 

[Good Luck]

it is not that i do not like religion, i do not like organized religion which i still claim has done more harm than good over the millenniums

Claim what ever the hell you want to claim. Backing up the claim is another matter. Even adding in the few hundred years of the Spanish Inquisition does not even come close to the good various religions have done through the ages. As was just pointed out, Judeo-Christianity is not the only "organized" religion out there, and for every sect that used it's religious authority to oppress the people, there are dozens if not hundreds elsewhere, working quietly toward the Godly purposes they are devoted to.

But the fact is you target religion for your tax-exempt whining BECAUSE it is religion. You cannot even acknowledge that other orgnaizations enjoy the same kinds of tax exemptions. You propose that if a church promotes its religion while doing good for the community, that act of promoting its belief system makes what they are doing somehow wrong, so they must be punished for it by losing their tax exemptions. It is YOUR assumption, based on your dislike of religion (or ORGANIZED religion if you like) that promotion of the religious beliefs of a church sutomatically negates and type of altruism. It just could not BE, that the people are promoting their religion because they honestly and fully believe that promoting their religion to others is for the good of the others? No, of course not. RELIGION BAD!

You can try to distinguish by adding the word "organized" to your rantings as if it makes a difference (What, exactly, is an UNorganized religion?). But the bottom line is you have no problem singling out religion for different treatment because you don't like religion. Too bad for you the 1st Amendment, as well as the vast majority of people in this country and world wide, do not hold to your infantile rantings.

 

[Don Quixote]

Claim what ever the hell you want to claim. Backing up the claim is another matter. Even adding in the few hundred years of the Spanish Inquisition does not even come close to the good various religions have done through the ages. As was just pointed out, Judeo-Christianity is not the only "organized" religion out there, and for every sect that used it's religious authority to oppress the people, there are dozens if not hundreds elsewhere, working quietly toward the Godly purposes they are devoted to.

But the fact is you target religion for your tax-exempt whining BECAUSE it is religion. You cannot even acknowledge that other orgnaizations enjoy the same kinds of tax exemptions. You propose that if a church promotes its religion while doing good for the community, that act of promoting its belief system makes what they are doing somehow wrong, so they must be punished for it by losing their tax exemptions. It is YOUR assumption, based on your dislike of religion (or ORGANIZED religion if you like) that promotion of the religious beliefs of a church sutomatically negates and type of altruism. It just could not BE, that the people are promoting their religion because they honestly and fully believe that promoting their religion to others is for the good of the others? No, of course not. RELIGION BAD!

You can try to distinguish by adding the word "organized" to your rantings as if it makes a difference (What, exactly, is an UNorganized religion?). But the bottom line is you have no problem singling out religion for different treatment because you don't like religion. Too bad for you the 1st Amendment, as well as the vast majority of people in this country and world wide, do not hold to your infantile rantings.

i chose the christian religions because most people on this board are familiar with them

i well aware of other religions and consider them the same as the christian religions be they Islam, Jewish, Hindu or Zoroastrianism to mention a few

when i speak of millenniums i mean over the tens of thousands of years - not just modern religions but ancient ones that still survive today

i do not like organized religion - i think that spiritual feelings should be between which ever deity or deities that you as an individual recognize and you

you may read various scriptures, but which one you choose or if you choose pieces of two or more

the idea is to live a life that includes a moral center of your own design

you may find people along your path that enrich your understanding or degrade them

what i read from your posts is a great deal of anger - anger that comes from a poor realization of your faith

a person of strong faith does not need anger to defend their faith

i do not care if a religion is monotheistic, polytheistic or animalistic, just that it is personal without need for a minister, iman, priest, priestess or whatever stands between you and your deity or deities

when i refer to organized religion, it is religions that require someone to speak to god or gods or goddess or goddesses for you

 

[Sammy Jankis]

I'm not talking about getting religion out of politics. That obviously will never happen. But as it stands now, organizations that are tax exempt are required to refrain from political activities, otherwise they forgo their tax exempt status. If that weren't the case, you'd have churches endorsing candidates, telling their parishioners to vote for particular candidates lest they go to hell, and the like.

I understand that some religious groups abuse the status (the latest hubbub I've heard about is churches opening fitness centers and undercutting local gym on price because they're tax exempt) but as a general matter I think the trade-off is a good thing. However, to the extent that religious orgs are basically operating businesses (like gyms), the status shouldn't apply.

You're fine when scientists lie, why not pastors?

 

[augustino5150]

Tax Exempt?

i think that religions should not have any tax exempt status except for charitable work that does not further their religious views

and no tax exemptions for real estate owned by religious institutions

Hell, I'd be happy if I didn't have to pay taxes to the church!
We lost our separation of church and state with the Faith Base Initiative.
Now I'm required to support religions that I have no use for and if I refuse to pay my tax the government will send men with guns to my home.

 

[Chapdog]

having managed assets of religious organizations in a past job i say most definitely tax them. while your at it start taxing all the foreign workers over here not paying any taxes as well as the American workers abroad not paying any taxes.
Or you can stop taxing me. One way or the other make it fair.

 

[Good Luck]

i chose the christian religions because most people on this board are familiar with them

i well aware of other religions and consider them the same as the christian religions be they Islam, Jewish, Hindu or Zoroastrianism to mention a few

when i speak of millenniums i mean over the tens of thousands of years - not just modern religions but ancient ones that still survive today

So you use your imagined excesses of prehistoric religions to defend your assessment that organized religion has done more harm than good? In short, your claims are pure bullshit.

i do not like organized religion

No shit.

i think that spiritual feelings should be between which ever deity or deities that you as an individual recognize and you

you may read various scriptures, but which one you choose or if you choose pieces of two or more

the idea is to live a life that includes a moral center of your own design

you may find people along your path that enrich your understanding or degrade them

So believe what you want and worship in the manner you want. Who is stopping you? But that is not good enough, is it? You want to use government to penalize people for not believing as you do - the penultimate totalitarian.

what i read from your posts is a great deal of anger - anger that comes from a poor realization of your faith

a person of strong faith does not need anger to defend their faith

My anger has nothing to do with defending my faith. My anger is at totalitarian assholes who desire to use government to reinforce their belief system. You PERSONALLY do not believe in organized religion, therefore organized religion should not enjoy the tax exempt status that every other community benefit organization enjoys.

Answer my question: IF churches should not enjoy tax exempt status, should that also apply to ALL non-charitable community benefit organizations? Or are you going to claim that singling out churches is justified because you do not like churches?

i do not care if a religion is monotheistic, polytheistic or animalistic, just that it is personal without need for a minister, iman, priest, priestess or whatever stands between you and your deity or deities

when i refer to organized religion, it is religions that require someone to speak to god or gods or goddess or goddesses for you

And I don't give a ripe pig fart what type of religion (unorganized, spirituality, self made morals, whatever) you believe in. If you don't like churches that have priests, don't join one. Don't join ANY church if you do not believe in them.

But, again, that is not good enough for you, is it? You don't like organized religion, so you want the government to treat churches differently. You want legalized discrimination against organized religion because you do not like it. You are the perfect example of the intolerance of the supposed philosophy of tolerance, and as such, you are the very definition of the type of person, and type of belief, for which the 1st Amendment was written to protect the rest of us from.

The fact that you believe differently, even that you disparage my belief system does not anger me. I am secure enough to discuss differences in belief systems without being angry over it.

What angers me is when people belittle the beliefs of others, purposely taking on an aura of superiority over the religious, in a hypocritical criticism that religions are bad because they assume an aura of moral superiority. What angers me is your egocentric assumption that because YOU dislike organized religion, then organized religion should be discriminated against in law. YOUR particular religious beliefs should no more be made into law than should mine.

 

[Don Quixote]

So you use your imagined excesses of prehistoric religions to defend your assessment that organized religion has done more harm than good? In short, your claims are pure bullshit.

No shit.

So believe what you want and worship in the manner you want. Who is stopping you? But that is not good enough, is it? You want to use government to penalize people for not believing as you do - the penultimate totalitarian.


My anger has nothing to do with defending my faith. My anger is at totalitarian assholes who desire to use government to reinforce their belief system. You PERSONALLY do not believe in organized religion, therefore organized religion should not enjoy the tax exempt status that every other community benefit organization enjoys.

Answer my question: IF churches should not enjoy tax exempt status, should that also apply to ALL non-charitable community benefit organizations? Or are you going to claim that singling out churches is justified because you do not like churches?


And I don't give a ripe pig fart what type of religion (unorganized, spirituality, self made morals, whatever) you believe in. If you don't like churches that have priests, don't join one. Don't join ANY church if you do not believe in them.

But, again, that is not good enough for you, is it? You don't like organized religion, so you want the government to treat churches differently. You want legalized discrimination against organized religion because you do not like it. You are the perfect example of the intolerance of the supposed philosophy of tolerance, and as such, you are the very definition of the type of person, and type of belief, for which the 1st Amendment was written to protect the rest of us from.

The fact that you believe differently, even that you disparage my belief system does not anger me. I am secure enough to discuss differences in belief systems without being angry over it.

What angers me is when people belittle the beliefs of others, purposely taking on an aura of superiority over the religious, in a hypocritical criticism that religions are bad because they assume an aura of moral superiority. What angers me is your egocentric assumption that because YOU dislike organized religion, then organized religion should be discriminated against in law. YOUR particular religious beliefs should no more be made into law than should mine.

why should anyone who is not of organized religions' faith subsidize organized religion - i think that is contrary to the first amendment

it is not that i hate organized religion (i try very much not to hate period, however, there exceptions (like child abusers)) i just object to subsidizing them with my taxes that they avoid - stated my opinion on exceptions to this statement but you seem to ignore them

 

[Minister of Truth]

How is NOT taxing someone a subsidy? Keep in mind that none of the founding fathers would have agreed with you, as they saw taxes as an often tyrannical force. To apply taxes to organized religion would not have struck them as a good idea or a legitimate application of force.

 

[Liberty]

How is NOT taxing someone a subsidy? Keep in mind that none of the founding fathers would have agreed with you, as they saw taxes as an often tyrannical force. To apply taxes to organized religion would not have struck them as a good idea or a legitimate application of force.

Well, If I have to pay property taxes, and a church doesn't, it could be argued a subsidy.

 

[Don Quixote]

How is NOT taxing someone a subsidy? Keep in mind that none of the founding fathers would have agreed with you, as they saw taxes as an often tyrannical force. To apply taxes to organized religion would not have struck them as a good idea or a legitimate application of force.

since i pay taxes (income and property) religions that do not pay taxes are receiving services from the governments but no paying for them while i do

i object

ps the religion that i was raised under (not my current faith) lobbied to repeal tax exemptions for religions

 

[Minister of Truth]

Well, If I have to pay property taxes, and a church doesn't, it could be argued a subsidy.

It could be rationalized, by a dishonest person, that its a subsidy. It could never be realistically argued, however.

 

[Minister of Truth]

since i pay taxes (income and property) religions that do not pay taxes are receiving services from the governments but no paying for them while i do

i object

ps the religion that i was raised under (not my current faith) lobbied to repeal tax exemptions for religions

As a Catholic, I'm quite sure we would have far less to fear as one of the world's best organized religions, than most others. However, tell that to Bob's Church and Moe's Shrine to Zeus, and they might be out of business pretty quick.

If you want to pay fewer taxes, tell the leftists to get off your ass and stop raising rates on you, religiously. Also, do you give services of your own to the community, the way St. Vincent de Paul and Knights of Columbus do, or just tax revenue?

 

[Liberty]

It could be rationalized, by a dishonest person, that its a subsidy. It could never be realistically argued, however.

I think I could.

 

[Don Quixote]

It could be rationalized, by a dishonest person, that its a subsidy. It could never be realistically argued, however.

how so, do not religions receive government services while not paying for them

 

[Liberty]

If you want to pay fewer taxes, tell the leftists to get off your ass and stop raising rates on you, religiously.

I do this everyday.

 

[Minister of Truth]

how so, do not religions receive government services while not paying for them

Congress shall pass no law.

Shit, just forget the Constitution, as I welcome this battle. Any chance to see liberals blatantly attacking religion is alright in my book, because of how many fucking retards go the Church and then worship on the altar of leftism.

(And see my above post about paying back to the commununity)