Speaking of insanity,
He's not sure whether or not Lincoln was assassinated because the witnesses are long dead!
Archaeology of the New Testament
- Thread starter Cypress
- Start date
He's not sure whether or not Lincoln was assassinated because the witnesses are long dead!
Because of the resurrection, I always thought the cross was supposed to be a symbol of hope, not a,symbol of death. But maybe I'm wrong.
As @Cypress and I have discussed, Jesus wasn't on the cross until he rotted. He was up there for an afternoon. With the Sabbath beginning at sunset and Jesus appearing to have already died, TPTB allowed his body to be taken down and entombed.
Despite his wounds, it's possible for a human being to survive such abuse and "rise" from the grave even if he died later from infection, which would explain why he disappeared after meeting with his disciples.
For primitive people, it would be a miracle that he "rose from the dead".
The Apostles spread out across the region preaching about Jesus and the budding religion of Christianity. Many of them died for their beliefs including St. Peter who was crucified upside down by Nero since Peter felt unworthy to die like his lord. Such devout beliefs are strong indicators that they saw what they thought to be a miracle, the resurrection of Jesus.
I'm a big believer "results count". People can say whatever they like, but results count. If the results aren't there, then it's just so much hot air. The results after the crucifixion and "resurrection" of Jesus are well demonstrated by the actions of others.
Anyone who claims the entire story is a fabrication is simply the flip-side of those who accept the story as a miracle. The middle way is to look at the facts and determine if it was possible for Jesus to survive the crucifixion...and it appears it is for the reasons mentioned.
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NiftyNiblick
1960s Chick Magnet
Even if you're 100% right, C, it was still an implement of capital punishment.
Strange choice in my view.
Wasn't that a George Carlin bit? LOL
The symbology is that "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." Ergo, the cross is a symbol of sacrifice and hope for an everlasting life through the spirit of Jesus Christ.
FWIW, now that I'm over 70 and have my official cynic card, what risk is there in doing something when you know the fix is in? Sure, a little pain, but Jesus gave up the ghost pretty quickly so his suffering was short. Knowing his daddy would save his ass where he'd spend the rest of eternity as the right hand of God is as sweet incentive.
It's like a rich kid whose daddy has both the mayor and police chief in his pocket. The kid can get away with almost anything. LOL
I read that the early Christians did not use the symbol of the cross, because it was a humiliating and accursed way to die in Jewish culture.
NiftyNiblick
1960s Chick Magnet
My take is this: for those who believe in deities, it is perfectly reasonable for Jesus to have actually died and then have a resurrection.
A deity is an entity capable of accomplishments not possible for humans or other life forms.
There are apparently reasons for some to believe, without benefit of actual physical evidence, that a god or gods exist.
I may be a secular person, but while it seems perhaps illogical to me,
I obviously cannot be totally positive that a supreme being doesn't exist in some form.
None of us can easily prove a negative.
That's why I have no grievance whatever with believers.
I have serious grievance with theocracy and theocrats, however.
Of the three major Semitic religions, Judaism seems the least theocratic or proselytizing.
Islam and Christianity have historically gotten out of hand--and still do today in the Middle East and in America.
A deity is an entity capable of accomplishments not possible for humans or other life forms.
There are apparently reasons for some to believe, without benefit of actual physical evidence, that a god or gods exist.
I may be a secular person, but while it seems perhaps illogical to me,
I obviously cannot be totally positive that a supreme being doesn't exist in some form.
None of us can easily prove a negative.
That's why I have no grievance whatever with believers.
I have serious grievance with theocracy and theocrats, however.
Of the three major Semitic religions, Judaism seems the least theocratic or proselytizing.
Islam and Christianity have historically gotten out of hand--and still do today in the Middle East and in America.
ZenMode
Well-known member
What do you mean by "results count"?
Several JPP MAGAts have threatened to beat me, shoot me and dox me. "Results count" means if any of those things become a reality or not.
While atheists often claim that the story of Jesus is a complete fabrication, the results are the actions of those in the early Christian church who died rather than forsake their beliefs.
Most people are not as stupid as the militant atheists and militant theists believe them to be. The results indicate most people are not easily bullshitted for long. They start to see through lies and manipulation even if it takes a few years such as with Nazism in the 1930s and Trumpism in the 2020s.
Results count, but mainly over the long-term, not just the short-term.
Agreed. It was the symbol of the fish, the Ichthys, since Jesus preached that his disciples would be a fisher of men.
In the New Testament, the waters gain a new master: Christ. He gives them a new meaning. He boldly instructs his followers to go straight to the waters of the nations and become “fishers of men” (Matthew 4:19). Fishing imagery is also found in one of Jesus’ parables in Matthew: “Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a net cast into the sea, which gathers together all kinds of fish” (Matthew 13:47). This verse is representative of God’s plan for the New Covenant, one that embraces nations as his “chosen people” rather than solely the Israelites. Water is also the element he chooses to baptize his followers with and to bring them new life. Instead of splitting the sea to drown his enemies, he walks upon it and reminds us to love our enemies. The “waters” and water-related imagery are essential for God’s revelation of Christ’s mission.
Though the precise origins of the fish symbol in early Christianity remain uncertain, the deep thematic significance of the waters and sea creatures in the New Testament suggests that the Christian usage of the fish symbol does not stem solely from past traditions such as paganism and Judaism. The fish was used to signal one’s faith to other Christians, to spread Christianity, and to mark burial sites. Early Christian literature evokes fish and fish-related imagery to address fellow Christians.....
...The Ichthys, beyond being a symbol for Christ, was also a popular Greek acronym which stood for “Iesous Christos Theou Yios Soter.” St. Augustine explains this in his fifth century work City of God: “But if you join the initial letters of these five Greek words, ᾽Ιησοῦς Χριστος Θεοῦ υἰὸς σωτήρ, which mean, ‘Jesus Christ the Son of God, the Saviour,’ they will make the word ἰχθὺς, that is, ‘fish,’ in which word Christ is mystically understood, because He was able to live, that is, to exist, without sin in the abyss of this mortality as in the depth of waters” (Augustine, 562). Augustine’s interpretation of the waters is more attuned to the Old Testament. The waters represent the fallen world, which Christ was able to navigate and command because of his sinless nature. However, because of Christ, the waters are redeemable.
View: https://x.com/JoshuaBarzon/status/2040114112521195784
Ichabod Stain
Was it me?
Do you think you appear intelligent to others?
Ichabod Stain
Was it me?
when are you going to seek a cure for your various mind viruses?
He is more intelligent, and also more educated, than others on JPP. Mostly the MAGA morons since, like you, most are bitter, hateful, dumbasses who should get help to ease their pain.
Ichabod Stain
Was it me?
If you were a normal, rational person, I'd ask you what you mean or to explain your view, but since you are clearly brain-damaged with a habit of running from questions, I won't. Sad.
If people around you loved you, Fredo, they'd help you ease your pain...one way or another.
Ichabod Stain
Was it me?
he's a fucking idiot trying to make some idiotic distinction between proof and evidence.
Ichabod Stain
Was it me?
you love killing babies and are a simp in denial.If you were a normal, rational person, I'd ask you what you mean or to explain your view, but since you are clearly brain-damaged with a habit of running from questions, I won't. Sad.
If people around you loved you, Fredo, they'd help you ease your pain...one way or another.
simp, zio-simp.
you're addicted to simping.
and that's not pimping.
Since you are incapable of understanding the difference, much less explaining it, I continue to advise others to stop trying to reason with you.
Example:
QED
Good luck, Fredo. If you were braver, you'd end your pain tonight.
Ichabod Stain
Was it me?
in this context there is no meaningful difference.Since you are incapable of understanding the difference, much less explaining it, I continue to advise others to stop trying to reason with you.
Example:
QED
Good luck, Fredo. If you were braver, you'd end your pain tonight.
he still is having an approach to spiriutality that is devoid of faith.
he's still trying to rationalize it.