Reality check on electric cars

[Into the Night]

Says the guy just caught in his lie above.

What 'lie'? Void argument fallacy.

 

[Into the Night]

Type in charging stations with your zip and you will get dots all over the map. It is very easy to do.

Plenty of places to spend HOURS of your time waiting for your EV to charge!

 

[Into the Night]

but... but @gfm7175 says we should use logic and not search engines or AI as those can make mistakes and obviously traveling by logic you never make a mistake.

I generally don't. I already know the route I'm taking before leaving.

 

[Into the Night]

Then you click on the dot, and it tells you how many chargers are there and what their levels are. My son laughs about how easy it is to get an electric car when you travel. The antis make it so easy.

A charger is not a car, Sybil.

 

[Into the Night]

and the charging Technology continues to improve, as all technologies do, making fueling times for EV's competitive with and even faster than fueling times with ICE....

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Go study Ohm's law someday, Kewpie.

...deleted spam from China...

China promises all kinds of crap they can't deliver on!

 

[Into the Night]

Meanwhile in America the Trump Admin continues to use taxpayer money to pay green energy projects to shut down to enrich the Oil and Gas companies and keep America locked in the past and to keep countries like Iran in a position of power via Oil and gas over reliance, in a world market.

Trump spent nearly $2 billion of taxpayer money to undo wind projects already underway.​

Good. Wind power is the 2nd most expensive method of generating electric power, and is unreliable.

Trump to pay more companies to abandon offshore wind and invest in fossil fuels​

Fossils don't burn, Kewpie. They aren't used as fuel.

 

[Into the Night]

If you are tractor pulling, you might prefer an ICE. You are making a specific, narrow circumstance where ICEs are better and extrapolating it to the whole. I gave you real-world use of EVs. My son has 2 EVs. I have a hybrid. If you drive less than 50 miles a day, and that is true for 90 percent of people, you will almost never use gas, with a hybrid. My car's computer forces me to drive on gas every few months because it gets stale in my tank.

Argument from randU fallacies. Random numbers are not data, Sybil. Attempted proof by anecdote.

 

[Into the Night]

Forced sales. The year is 2026.

 

[Into the Night]

Less than result from the heavily subsidized ICE market which is subsidized at almost every level, from the fuel to the vehicles.

It is not subsidized, Kewpie.

 

[Into the Night]

Yup.

Tesla is dead as a car company

The Tesla Model Y is the best selling EV vehicle, Kewpie.

and that is why Elon is pivoting to 'robots and AI',

Not a pivot, Kewpie. Additional business.

and rolling all his companies into one,

He isn't.

to try and preserve the ridiculous Tesla share price on the NEXT BIG THING, he will not win on.

The best selling EV is the Tesla Model Y, Kewpie.

Elon is a master promoter and brilliant at seeing where the money is going and putting a company in the way of that but his ability to operate is more and more in question. To be fair, Space X and his satellite company seem solid for now, but so did tesla at its early years.

Tesla is the best selling EV, Kewpie.

Starlink is constantly improving. It provides for internet anywhere in the U.S.; even remote areas. A mobile system can be obtained to maintain internet connectivity even while you travel cross country. More satellites are constantly being added, improving overall bandwidth.

Optimus has the best hand design in the business. It isn't the first to market, but it will be in my opinion the best. It uses Grok AI for navigation and cross-learning.

Elon Musk is also developing autonomous vehicles for use as airport shuttles. A good application for them. You might be riding one of these someday!

 

[gfm7175]

It is pretty hilarious the way AI fouls up! I've seen it tell people to use train tracks for cars, direct 'em down a dead end or dirt road thinking it's a through road, direct a car to drive off a dock in to the water, etc.

Nuthin' like Google Maps!

It truly is quite funny! Out of curiosity of how accurate it would be, I messed around with it for planning a day at a park and it was warning me about a "current" construction project that I had known was actually completed years prior. I got a good laugh out of that one.

 

[Into the Night]

It truly is quite funny! Out of curiosity of how accurate it would be, I messed around with it for planning a day at a park and it was warning me about a "current" construction project that I had known was actually completed years prior. I got a good laugh out of that one.

It DOES seem to have real trouble with that!

 

[QP!]

Despite @T. A. Gardner saying everything with regards to Ev's was proven in the early 1900's and him claiming there are no meaningful advancements that have happened since nor that can happen in the future to make EV's even more convenient to users, the fact is all areas of EV technology continue to improve and scale in significant ways.

Clfiffs:
- 6 minutes for charges from 10% - 90%
- weight of batteries being dramatically reduced
- with reduced weight, range is greatly increasing and flying cars become a more real option
- batteries now are over coming issues with losing charge at deep cold temperatures (-50c)

Of course Terry will hand wave all this away as changing nothing despite the FACT these advancements, that everyone but Terry was predicting while he was claiming they would never happen, are massively significant, and if this type of progression in the technologies continues it is clear ICE will not be able to compete at all with EV's once range, charging times and other issues become so superior to ICE.

We are not there yet but if you just look at the technology progression curve since Tesla launch which is what spurred renewed and sustained investment in this sector and you understand how technology progression curves work in ALL INDUSTRIES, you will easily see the challenge ICE is facing now. ICE may well become the old horse and buggy and just a foot note in the history of an era that got passed by.

 

[CasualLurker]

Charging times and availability of stations remain the issue. Electric cars work fine if you can take them home every night. They're still useless for lengthy car trips, however.

Also, America probably has the least useful passenger rail service of any developed nation. As horrid as domestic air travel has become, one still has to fly to one's destination and, if needed, rent a car--electric or otherwise--there.

Hybrids are getting better and more common. Many models are now available only as hybrids. But all electric has a way to go.

 

[QP!]

Charging times and availability of stations remain the issue.

Yes. Something that is dramatically increasing over time as would be expected.

Electric cars work fine if you can take them home every night. They're still useless for lengthy car trips, however.

That is simply not true. I know a lot of people who travel all over the US in their EV's doing extremely lengthy trips and who have no issues as long as they avoid the most remote areas of the country. If you are traveling along a big city path, you do not even have to think about it.

Also, America probably has the least useful passenger rail service of any developed nation. As horrid as domestic air travel has become, one still has to fly to one's destination and, if needed, rent a car--electric or otherwise--there.

Agreed on above.

Hybrids are getting better and more common. Many models are now available only as hybrids. But all electric has a way to go.

Agreed on above. Hybrids are quite interesting during this 'gap' period as full EV's close those last gaps, but EV's currently are still often the best vehicles for the majority of city dwellers where 90% of their driving is Home/Work/Errands around town with the occasional 4-5 hour max weekend drive get away. And that is the vast majority of city drivers.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

Despite @T. A. Gardner saying everything with regards to Ev's was proven in the early 1900's and him claiming there are no meaningful advancements that have happened since nor that can happen in the future to make EV's even more convenient to users, the fact is all areas of EV technology continue to improve and scale in significant ways.

Clfiffs:
- 6 minutes for charges from 10% - 90%
- weight of batteries being dramatically reduced
- with reduced weight, range is greatly increasing and flying cars become a more real option
- batteries now are over coming issues with losing charge at deep cold temperatures (-50c)

Of course Terry will hand wave all this away as changing nothing despite the FACT these advancements, that everyone but Terry was predicting while he was claiming they would never happen, are massively significant, and if this type of progression in the technologies continues it is clear ICE will not be able to compete at all with EV's once range, charging times and other issues become so superior to ICE.

We are not there yet but if you just look at the technology progression curve since Tesla launch which is what spurred renewed and sustained investment in this sector and you understand how technology progression curves work in ALL INDUSTRIES, you will easily see the challenge ICE is facing now. ICE may well become the old horse and buggy and just a foot note in the history of an era that got passed by.

Then why have EV's never, not once historically, been able to penetrate the automotive market beyond being a small niche type when put up against ICE vehicles? EV's have only gained traction in the market to an extent today because of government subsidies and laws against ICE vehicles.

In an open market, people don't buy or want EV's beyond that niche market. There has to reasons why that's the case. You keep trying to tell us that EV's are the future and how they will replace ICE vehicles even though it's historically clear they won't unless government forces them on the public. Norway and China are two excellent examples of just that happening.

 

[CasualLurker]

Hybrids are quite interesting during this 'gap' period as full EV's close those last gaps, but EV's currently are still often the best vehicles for the majority of city dwellers where 90% of their driving is Home/Work/Errands around town with the occasional 4-5 hour max weekend drive get away. And that is the vast majority of city drivers.

Agree.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

Agree.

Until the issue of charging comes up. Then urban dwellers find owning an EV is a major PITA.

 

[QP!]

Then why have EV's never, not once historically, been able to penetrate the automotive market beyond being a small niche type when put up against ICE vehicles? EV's have only gained traction in the market to an extent today because of government subsidies and laws against ICE vehicles.

In an open market, people don't buy or want EV's beyond that niche market. There has to reasons why that's the case. You keep trying to tell us that EV's are the future and how they will replace ICE vehicles even though it's historically clear they won't unless government forces them on the public. Norway and China are two excellent examples of just that happening.

Because Terry, prior to Tesla and for most of the early years of Tesla the technology and infrastructure were not there for EV's.

It was the same for ICE for over a 100 years against Horse and Buggy. Farmers and other could make fuel and even carry it around and yet the ICE vehicle made almost zero advancements against the Horse and Buggy which dominated the market until advances and infrastructure made the ICE vehicle cheaper, more accessible and convenient due to gas stations and roads advancements.


Just as ICE numbers went in a straight line up and to the right paralleling those advancements we now see the same exact up and to the right adoption of EV's world wide as their advancements are now finally happening.

And that is undeniable.

 

[QP!]

Until the issue of charging comes up. Then urban dwellers find owning an EV is a major PITA.

So you do not understand hybrids have a ICE option built in?