The Mamdani Moments

[T. A. Gardner]

You predict shit then it never happens

Why would any sane person listen to your
Slop?

It’s as reliable as the drunken guy on the curb by the bus station rambling as he obsessively scratches his balls

The eye-opening report from Democratic City Comptroller Mark Levine’s office cast doubt on the proposal’s much-trumpeted projected $500 million in revenue, noting a similar tax in Vancouver, Canada, prompted property owners to rent, sell or even live full-time in their second homes.

Levine found that the proposed policy — framed as a needed revenue booster for the city — would likely bring in closer to $340 to $380 million. He warned the loss could be even greater over time.

Hochul, Mamdani ‘pied-à-terre’ tax likely won’t raise $500M – and could cost NYC millions: comptroller

The comptroller assumes the city could see a similar scramble to sell homes — estimating an around 10% revenue loss.

nypost.com

That's the accounting expert in the NYC government.

New York City Mayor Zohran Mamdani's pied-à-terre property tax is moving ahead. But will it work?

New York is moving ahead with a pied-à-terre property tax in its budget. Existing taxes from around the world's major cities show the limits of the policy.

www.cnbc.com

What smart people are saying about NYC's proposed annual pied-à-terre tax on homes worth $5 million

Experts are divided over NYC Mayor Zohran Mamdani and NY Governor Kathy Hochul's proposed luxury home tax.

www.businessinsider.com

 

[Into the Night]

You peer into your cold dark heart and think others are just like you

You hate your fellow humans.

You are describing yourself again, Stooge.

 

[evince]

Scott Perry - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

This Republican wanted Falun Gong in the USA

 

[evince]

The eye-opening report from Democratic City Comptroller Mark Levine’s office cast doubt on the proposal’s much-trumpeted projected $500 million in revenue, noting a similar tax in Vancouver, Canada, prompted property owners to rent, sell or even live full-time in their second homes.

Levine found that the proposed policy — framed as a needed revenue booster for the city — would likely bring in closer to $340 to $380 million. He warned the loss could be even greater over time.

Hochul, Mamdani ‘pied-à-terre’ tax likely won’t raise $500M – and could cost NYC millions: comptroller

The comptroller assumes the city could see a similar scramble to sell homes — estimating an around 10% revenue loss.

nypost.com

That's the accounting expert in the NYC government.

New York City Mayor Zohran Mamdani's pied-à-terre property tax is moving ahead. But will it work?

New York is moving ahead with a pied-à-terre property tax in its budget. Existing taxes from around the world's major cities show the limits of the policy.

www.cnbc.com

What smart people are saying about NYC's proposed annual pied-à-terre tax on homes worth $5 million

Experts are divided over NYC Mayor Zohran Mamdani and NY Governor Kathy Hochul's proposed luxury home tax.

www.businessinsider.com

Your links suck as always

 

[T. A. Gardner]

If you sell to a corporation, the corporation gets zero homestead rebate, so would be paying the higher second home tax anyway. There would also be property transfer taxes, and a reassessment of property taxes which is going to mean a massive increase. There are of course rental taxes, but there would also be rental property rebates on property taxes, or there would be if you did not have an out-of-state corporation.

The corporation would operate it as a "rental property" not a second home. The transaction can be done privately through an escrow service for a small fee. I've done many of those selling property rather than through a real estate agency. Any profit made from the sale can be, along with the sale amount rolled over into new real estate somewhere else so there is no capital gain and no tax to be paid.

Somewhere along the line, you have forgotten that NYC gets the right to tax because whoever owns property there. Not based on where the owner lives or is incorporated. Incorporate in whatever tax haven you want, if you own property in NYC, you are paying taxes there. If you are charging rent in NYC, you are paying taxes there.

They can tax the property but not slap on that additional "wealth tax" as the property is no longer a "second home." It is now, at least on paper, a rental property. The idea is to avoid paying more than you have to. Mamdani's idea to soak the Rich has failed everywhere else it's already been tried.

If the rent is not covering the cost of maintaining the property, you would be tempted to take a business loss. That business loss would prove that the corporation was compensating you in NYC, so you would be required to start paying all the income/employment taxes of NYC.

No, it wouldn't. The corporation could say they've tried renting and just aren't getting takers.

A well tested legal principle is that any business deal that only makes sense to avoid taxes, it has no business purpose, is a tax dodge. That means the tax attorney that you would hire to try to get out of trouble would not be trying to reduce the taxes you owe, he would be trying to keep you out of prison.

The Bidens and Clintons got away with that for decades.

 

[Walt]

The corporation would operate it as a "rental property" not a second home.

Yes, and the property taxes on it would be higher, because it would no longer get a homestead rebate.

The transaction can be done privately through an escrow service for a small fee.

Property transfers need to be registered with the city. There is a property transfer tax in NYC, and in many other places. If you do not register the property transfer with the city, it did not happen.

I've done many of those selling property rather than through a real estate agency.

The real estate agent is not the issue here. The taxes are the issue.

Any profit made from the sale can be, along with the sale amount rolled over into new real estate somewhere else so there is no capital gain and no tax to be paid.

You are mixing capital gains taxes with property transfer taxes.

They can tax the property but not slap on that additional "wealth tax" as the property is no longer a "second home."

By definition, property taxes are a type of wealth taxes. You have lost your homestead rebate, just like with the second home loss of homestead rebate, so have made no gain.

The idea is to avoid paying more than you have to.

OUCH!!! Never say that. There needs to be a business justification, not just a tax justification.

The corporation could say they've tried renting and just aren't getting takers.

That would require advertising at the price you pay. Let's say you are paying $100 a month rent on a property that would normally be $100,000. Your corporation would be required to try to rent it to anyone for $100 a month. There would be a taker.

Do you see how that fails? The main way it is failing is there is no attempt to obfuscate the tax evasion. You are staying in the same property, just doing a bunch of paperwork changes for no other reason but for tax evasion.

The Bidens and Clintons got away with that for decades.

The Bidens and the Clintons released decades of their taxes. The Clintons, in particular, released all their taxes from 1976 to 2015. The taxes really are not that interesting.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

Yes, and the property taxes on it would be higher, because it would no longer get a homestead rebate.

No, because a corporation can write them off and make them revenue neutral as a business.

Property transfers need to be registered with the city. There is a property transfer tax in NYC, and in many other places. If you do not register the property transfer with the city, it did not happen.

That's what escrow firms do. The paperwork is about 10 pages and some signatures. The cost is usually a few hundred dollars.

The real estate agent is not the issue here. The taxes are the issue.

Ownership is the issue. An additional tax on a "second home" versus not having to pay that additional tax on a "rental property." Vancouver is often brought up as a city that has already done what Mamdani is about to do, the exact same thing. High income people with second homes in Vancouver immediately found ways to avoid the tax and it took in a fraction, about 10 to 20% of what was expected by the Leftist run government.

You are mixing capital gains taxes with property transfer taxes.

When I sell a property for more than I purchased it for, that profit is subject to capital gains tax unless I reinvest it, along with the principle, in a new property. Like for like is the rule. There are no "property transfer taxes involved" since the government isn't involved in the transaction.

By definition, property taxes are a type of wealth taxes. You have lost your homestead rebate, just like with the second home loss of homestead rebate, so have made no gain.

Property taxes are generally meant to pay for local government infrastructure that is provided that impacts that property. That is, roads, utilities, schools, and the like.

OUCH!!! Never say that. There needs to be a business justification, not just a tax justification.

No there doesn't. Businesses don't have to justify in detail why they doing some business transaction. With real estate, taxes are a justification. 'I sold the property because I couldn't afford the taxes on it...'

That would require advertising at the price you pay. Let's say you are paying $100 a month rent on a property that would normally be $100,000. Your corporation would be required to try to rent it to anyone for $100 a month. There would be a taker.

"Advertising" on a $5 million property as a rental is to a very specific clientele. I don't have to run want ads at some local apartment finding business.

Do you see how that fails? The main way it is failing is there is no attempt to obfuscate the tax evasion. You are staying in the same property, just doing a bunch of paperwork changes for no other reason but for tax evasion.

You fail to see that Rich people didn't get rich and stay rich by being passive and stupid. When government does something by simple fiat and expects everything else not to react to that, government is the one being stupid. The Rich will react to government wanting to massively hike taxes on them and will do something to avoid it.

The Bidens and the Clintons released decades of their taxes. The Clintons, in particular, released all their taxes from 1976 to 2015. The taxes really are not that interesting.

So? The Bidens and Clintons ran all sorts of very dubious and often obvious scams to avoid taxes, collect huge piles of money in quid pro quo arrangements, and other nefarious stuff. Notice how Hunter 'Bagman' Biden is no longer some corporate darling who can get million dollar plus seats on boards? That's because his political juice is now ZERO that dear old daddy is a vegetable and no longer in politics.

The Clinton Foundation closed after the Hildabeast stopped running for President. The Clintons can't get huge piles of cash for anything now that they're out of politics.

 

[Taichiliberal]

Falung gong

Classic! My old acupuncturist who was mainline born was a member. They're anti PRC, so Squawkie has that in common with them.

 

[Taichiliberal]

Mandani is a communist.
Mandani is also a socialist. Communism is one form of socialism.
Mandani is not a capitalist.

You are also a socialist.

And once again Squawkie defaults to repetition of personal opinion bereft of valid sources and documented historical facts. He"s finished, and will be eventually ignored.

 

[Taichiliberal]

No, because a corporation can write them off and make them revenue neutral as a business.


That's what escrow firms do. The paperwork is about 10 pages and some signatures. The cost is usually a few hundred dollars.


Ownership is the issue. An additional tax on a "second home" versus not having to pay that additional tax on a "rental property." Vancouver is often brought up as a city that has already done what Mamdani is about to do, the exact same thing. High income people with second homes in Vancouver immediately found ways to avoid the tax and it took in a fraction, about 10 to 20% of what was expected by the Leftist run government.


When I sell a property for more than I purchased it for, that profit is subject to capital gains tax unless I reinvest it, along with the principle, in a new property. Like for like is the rule. There are no "property transfer taxes involved" since the government isn't involved in the transaction.


Property taxes are generally meant to pay for local government infrastructure that is provided that impacts that property. That is, roads, utilities, schools, and the like.


No there doesn't. Businesses don't have to justify in detail why they doing some business transaction. With real estate, taxes are a justification. 'I sold the property because I couldn't afford the taxes on it...'


"Advertising" on a $5 million property as a rental is to a very specific clientele. I don't have to run want ads at some local apartment finding business.


You fail to see that Rich people didn't get rich and stay rich by being passive and stupid. When government does something by simple fiat and expects everything else not to react to that, government is the one being stupid. The Rich will react to government wanting to massively hike taxes on them and will do something to avoid it.



So? The Bidens and Clintons ran all sorts of very dubious and often obvious scams to avoid taxes, collect huge piles of money in quid pro quo arrangements, and other nefarious stuff. Notice how Hunter 'Bagman' Biden is no longer some corporate darling who can get million dollar plus seats on boards? That's because his political juice is now ZERO that dear old daddy is a vegetable and no longer in politics.

The Clinton Foundation closed after the Hildabeast stopped running for President. The Clintons can't get huge piles of cash for anything now that they're out of politics.

You always take a lot of time and space to essentially repeat yourself with a combination of a myopic review of facts and your opinions, supposition and conjecture.

Bottom line: the rich "job creators" are not mass exiting, the tax WILL NOT severely alter their lifestyle or incomes and like it or not we live by a set of laws that THE PEOPLE can change via majority vote. That's how we got Dump and Mamdani. Trump's approval ratings outside his base is 30% nationwide. Mamdani is the opposite. So your screeds and diatribes are but a piss in the wind.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

You always take a lot of time and space to essentially repeat yourself with a combination of a myopic review of facts and your opinions, supposition and conjecture.

Bottom line: the rich "job creators" are not mass exiting, the tax WILL NOT severely alter their lifestyle or incomes and like it or not we live by a set of laws that THE PEOPLE can change via majority vote. That's how we got Dump and Mamdani. Trump's approval ratings outside his base is 30% nationwide. Mamdani is the opposite. So your screeds and diatribes are but a piss in the wind.

The Rich and job creators are already fleeing NY, California, and Illinois. It won't happen overnight, but it is happening. If you think this is the last tax Mamdani or Hochel will slap on them, you're delusional. When these taxes don't grab enough money, they'll be back for more.

Trump's approval rating has nothing to do with what Mamdani and Hochel are doing. That aside, the Democrats ratings are in the teens.

 

[Taichiliberal]

The Rich and job creators are already fleeing NY, California, and Illinois. It won't happen overnight, but it is happening. If you think this is the last tax Mamdani or Hochel will slap on them, you're delusional. When these taxes don't grab enough money, they'll be back for more.

Trump's approval rating has nothing to do with what Mamdani and Hochel are doing. That aside, the Democrats ratings are in the teens.

A reality check:

The Rich Promised to Flee Mamdani’s New York. They Haven’t.

When Zohran Mamdani won the mayor's race, his critics predicted a mass exodus of wealth and business from New York City, cratering its tax base. It’s been nearly six months since he won, and market indicators suggest so far that the rich are staying put.

jacobin.com

Your Cheeto Jeezus policies and actions has his ratings circling the drain and the country's economy worsening. He talked the same crap as you about Mamdani, yet to date Mamdani is proving he's living up to his campaign promises and has the backing of the voters. So you can repeat your mags propaganda ad nausea to no avail.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

A reality check:

The Rich Promised to Flee Mamdani’s New York. They Haven’t.

When Zohran Mamdani won the mayor's race, his critics predicted a mass exodus of wealth and business from New York City, cratering its tax base. It’s been nearly six months since he won, and market indicators suggest so far that the rich are staying put.

jacobin.com

Your Cheeto Jeezus policies and actions has his ratings circling the drain and the country's economy worsening. He talked the same crap as you about Mamdani, yet to date Mamdani is proving he's living up to his campaign promises and has the backing of the voters. So you can repeat your mags propaganda ad nausea to no avail.

What "reality check?" Jacobin is on the extreme Left and loves Mamdani. The flight of the Rich won't happen overnight. It hasn't anywhere else either. But it does happen over time.

If Mamdani Raises NYC Taxes, Will The Wealthy Leave The City?

Academic studies examine wealthy taxpayer migration and shows why their departures may be even more of a problem when considering a New York City tax.

www.forbes.com

...we show that the introduction of the income tax induced significant outmigration to non-income-tax states by middle- and high-earning households.

The Introduction of the Income Tax, Fiscal Capacity, and Migration: Evidence from US States - American Economic Association

The Introduction of the Income Tax, Fiscal Capacity, and Migration: Evidence from US States by Traviss Cassidy, Mark Dincecco and Ugo Antonio Troiano. Published in volume 16, issue 1, pages 359-93 of American Economic Journal: Economic Policy, February 2024, Abstract: We evaluate how fiscal...

www.aeaweb.org

For the Rich, leaving NYC while still working there is an easy option. They have the time and money to make their flight from New York with as little impact as possible. They won't up and leave in a matter of a few weeks or months, but eventually they will leave. History shows that to be the case.

Detroit as Motor City didn't die overnight. Gary Indiana as a major steel producer didn't crash and burn in a year.

 

[Taichiliberal]

What "reality check?" Jacobin is on the extreme Left and loves Mamdani. The flight of the Rich won't happen overnight. It hasn't anywhere else either. But it does happen over time.

If Mamdani Raises NYC Taxes, Will The Wealthy Leave The City?

Academic studies examine wealthy taxpayer migration and shows why their departures may be even more of a problem when considering a New York City tax.

www.forbes.com

...we show that the introduction of the income tax induced significant outmigration to non-income-tax states by middle- and high-earning households.

The Introduction of the Income Tax, Fiscal Capacity, and Migration: Evidence from US States - American Economic Association

The Introduction of the Income Tax, Fiscal Capacity, and Migration: Evidence from US States by Traviss Cassidy, Mark Dincecco and Ugo Antonio Troiano. Published in volume 16, issue 1, pages 359-93 of American Economic Journal: Economic Policy, February 2024, Abstract: We evaluate how fiscal...

www.aeaweb.org

For the Rich, leaving NYC while still working there is an easy option. They have the time and money to make their flight from New York with as little impact as possible. They won't up and leave in a matter of a few weeks or months, but eventually they will leave. History shows that to be the case.

Detroit as Motor City didn't die overnight. Gary Indiana as a major steel producer didn't crash and burn in a year.

1. You can't factually disprove the content, so you just blow smoke. Your opinion is worthless.

2. More predictions, supposition and conjecture. Pity for you true analysis a history tell a different story. Even the Brits know how bogus the guff you parrpt is:

No, New York City’s wealthiest are not fleeing the city after Mamdani’s win

Conservatives warned of a mass exodus if the democratic socialist won, but experts, and property data, paint a very different picture

www.theguardian.com

 

[T. A. Gardner]

1. You can't factually disprove the content, so you just blow smoke. Your opinion is worthless.

I did disprove it. You didn't bother to read the links.

2. More predictions, supposition and conjecture. Pity for you true analysis a history tell a different story. Even the Brits know how bogus the guff you parrpt is:

No, New York City’s wealthiest are not fleeing the city after Mamdani’s win

Conservatives warned of a mass exodus if the democratic socialist won, but experts, and property data, paint a very different picture

www.theguardian.com

No, my predictions are based on solid research and historical fact. You just don't like it.

 

[Walt]

prompted property owners to rent, sell or even live full-time in their second homes.

The whole point of this is to increase occupancies, so all three would be counted as wins. Living full time in the second home means they pay residents tax. That is worth far more to NYC than the second home tax.

No, because a corporation can write them off and make them revenue neutral as a business.

Property taxes are taxes on assets. Whether the assets make money or not does not matter. This is the reason it is considered a wealth tax.

There are no "property transfer taxes involved" since the government isn't involved in the transaction.

If you do not register the sale with the government, wouldn't the government continue to charge you the taxes?

Not paying taxes due on a sale is illegal. It is simple as that.

Businesses don't have to justify in detail why they doing some business transaction. With real estate, taxes are a justification. 'I sold the property because I couldn't afford the taxes on it...'

What do you think an audit is? It is a justifying of the details of a business transaction. Your justification that you could not afford to live there anymore falls apart when you continue to live there.

"Advertising" on a $5 million property as a rental is to a very specific clientele. I don't have to run want ads at some local apartment finding business.

In NYC it is unremarkable. List with an apartment agent, and you can get hundreds of showings immediately. Your claims that you had to rent to yourself at less than 1% of the market rent will not fly.

The Bidens and Clintons ran all sorts of very dubious and often obvious scams to avoid taxes

You have their tax returns, and yet cannot prove any of these "obvious tax scams"?

 

[Ross Dolan]

If I were, and people were normally altruistic and willing to work hard and just give some of the money they earned, possibly a big chunk of it, to other people who often do little or nothing to earn it, then Socialism and even Communism would have worked centuries ago.

It is my opinion that you definitely ARE WRONG. But your insistence that Socialism has NEVER worked despite the fact that China, DEFINITELY A SOCIALIST STATE, is set to become THE largest and most robust economy on the planet very soon (granted, with lots of help from Trump) , pretty much proves that you are wong.

TA, if you want to kid yourself on this issue...or meet some need in yourself by refusing to see that truth...fine. But if you announce this problem in posts here, I have to take issue.

 

[cawacko]

Hey Wack, what's cooking?

Here's the thing ... ALL policies and budgets are scrutinized before, during and after implementation. Thing is the wealthy don't want to be made to pay any taxes they just don't like ... not that they can't well afford it without altering their life style. The BS that all this will drive out the wealthy "job creators" is just that .... BS.

A little separate but one of the issues that got Mamdani elected was the cost of housing. Have you noticed any change in the discussion towards needing additional supply in the past year?

Why New York’s Housing Shortage Could Cost It Congressional Seats​

Why New York’s Housing Shortage Could Cost It Congressional Seats

As red states build far more homes, New York’s stagnating housing production risks population stagnation and a projected loss of two U.S. House seats and Electoral College votes.

www.governing.com

 

[CasualLurker]

For the sake of discussion, I'm sure plenty of people who supported Obama, Clinton, Biden and Harris will tell you they are progressive and want change (I list those four people but it works for the Senate, House, Governorships and Mayors as well).

But if the goal is real change, or revolution as Bernie likes to say, they're not really it. What would it take to get those folks to move more into the Bernie/AOC camp? (and I recognize if there was an easy answer to that it would have already been implemented)

I wish that I knew, cawacko. I think that people who haven't observed how other nations like Denmark, Sweden, The Netherlands and the like are able to draw the lines between private and public sectors in more progressive places and still enjoying prosperity doing it are disinclined to support serious change.

Many people who regard themselves as progressive believe in American Exceptionalism as much as the most nationalist conservatives do, and they make no effort to compare America to other nations. I don't see a solution to this. I still vote my values, but I have no optimism.

In fact, I will add this. Even the Bernies and AOCs are afraid to mention what other nations are able to do in comparison to us because they know it will turn the American Exceptionalists off.

 

[countryboy]

Here's a little butt burner for our resident Maga/Alt-Right folk who talked all types of guff about NYC's first openly Socialist Democrat MUSLIM mayor ... how he would destroy NYC with all his "communist-sharia law" policies. Read the following:

Mayor Zohran Mamdani Releases $124.7 Billion Executive Budget for Fiscal Year 2027

www.nyc.gov

It's almost hard to believe you are touting this chicanery. You obviously know nothing about what the commie did to achieve this so-called balanced budget. It's more like a balancing act, and it will all come tumbling down. And it will be delicious. There's already an Exodus of capital from New York City, and well there should be.