A democrat cozies up to the wealthy and powerful corp = good

I don't watch Fox to discover all of this about leftists. I simply interact with leftists online, at school, at social events, in town, etc., and they pretty much do nothing except offer anti-business and anti-wealth strawpersons all day long.

Ironic, because in my interaction with rightists, I never hear them talk about or defend the little guy, the middle class or the working guy. Matter of fact, not only do the right wing solutions benefit the wealthy, they always require some group of human beings to evaporate.

I believe it is best explained by the fact 'conservatives' are insecure and driven by fear:

----------------------------------------------------------------
"All people are born alike—except Republicans and Democrats," quipped Groucho Marx, and in fact it turns out that personality differences between liberals and conservatives are evident in early childhood. In 1969, Berkeley professors Jack and Jeanne Block embarked on a study of childhood personality, asking nursery school teachers to rate children's temperaments. They weren't even thinking about political orientation.

Twenty years later, they decided to compare the subjects' childhood personalities with their political preferences as adults. They found arresting patterns. As kids, liberals had developed close relationships with peers and were rated by their teachers as self-reliant, energetic, impulsive, and resilient. People who were conservative at age 23 had been described by their teachers as easily victimized, easily offended, indecisive, fearful, rigid, inhibited, and vulnerable at age 3. The reason for the difference, the Blocks hypothesized, was that insecure kids most needed the reassurance of tradition and authority, and they found it in conservative politics.
Psychology Today

Liberalism is trust of the people, tempered by prudence; conservatism, distrust of people, tempered by fear.
William E. Gladstone
 
I didn't expect you to get it. I've become well-aware of your mental limitations.

When a Democrat does talk about the GOP being "the party of the wealthy" or some such phrase - and some occasionally do - they are talking about policies, Yurt. They're talking about taxation that favors wealthier groups, or loopholes for corporations, or opposing policies that give the poor & middle class a better leg up.

What they don't mean is "The GOP is made up of wealthy people who hang out with wealthy people, while us Democrats are all poor & middle class, and hang out with only others who are poor & middle class."

I mean, that's just dopey....
You tellin' me you ain't hangin' with

Barbara Streisand
David Letterman
Keith Olbermann
Rosie O'Donnell
Michele Obama
Janeane Garofalo
Maureen Dowd
Warren Buffett
Joy Behar
Barbara Walters
Susan Sarandon
Jane Fonda
Danny Glover
Sean Penn
Ben Affleck
Ed Asner
Alex Baldwin
Harry Belafonte
Mike Farrell
Melissa Gilbert
Woody Harrelson
Michael Moore
Oliver Stone
Loretta Swit
Oprah Winfrey
Ed Schultz
Chris Matthews
Arianna Huffington

and all the rest of those po' folks....?

How about Pelosi or Reid....the Kennedys.....John Kerry....Edwards....etc.
don't dem po' folks ask you to dinner.....
Maybe Leno or Lettermen ?....No pro basketball or football players ?
Jesse or Rev. Al ???
 
Please excuse me if I am wrong Bfgrn but for some reason I thought you were from outside the U.S.? Where you are from doesn't matter other than San Francisco is a politicians ATM. Well because my city is so left-leaning it happens to be the Democratics ATM (there are similar Republican cities throughout the country though probably not this size.) Nancy Pelosi lives on my street and Dianne Finestein one street down. All high profile Democratic politicians come through here because there are politicially active people with lots of money to give away. And it's been this way well before the Supreme Court ruling.

so lets limit all major funding of political ads
 
i have no idea why this is so difficult for onceler...the thread has a simple premise, but obviously its over onceler's head or he is just trying to dishonestly twist what i'm saying....

1. "they are talking about policies" - yes onceler, of course they are, why you have to keep repeating this as if it shows i'm wrong and you're wrong is beyond me....its like your just dumb

2. the thread title, i thought, was clear....dems love to bash republicans for cozying up to the corp interests, banks, wallstreet etc....but, when the dems do the same its not bad, its good

so...why onceler has gone on tangents about policies etc is just bizarre

Ironic that a person claims to be a lawyer, yet doesn't know basic grammar.

Even more ironic that said person posts "your just dumb" to another individual.

Here's a basic primer for pretend interweb lawyers:

http://www.wikihow.com/Use-You're-and-Your
 
because it is a violation of the 1st amendment and would be a boom to incumbents to limit the ability of opponents/challengers to come after them.

ok then track the money and publish the contributors (contributions over $1000) - if we want to keep our democracy, we need more revelation of contributors - from all sides
 
i have no idea why this is so difficult for onceler...the thread has a simple premise, but obviously its over onceler's head or he is just trying to dishonestly twist what i'm saying....

1. "they are talking about policies" - yes onceler, of course they are, why you have to keep repeating this as if it shows i'm wrong and you're wrong is beyond me....its like your just dumb

2. the thread title, i thought, was clear....dems love to bash republicans for cozying up to the corp interests, banks, wallstreet etc....but, when the dems do the same its not bad, its good

so...why onceler has gone on tangents about policies etc is just bizarre

One more time: Dems "bash" Republicans for POLICIES that favor the rich, and that give corporations tax loopholes & other benefits that they do not see as equitable.

That does not mean "Dems are against corporations," or "Dems are against the rich." It means they are against policies that favor corporations & the rich over everyone else.

So, "going to a fundraiser" w/ Google is not setting policy, or doing anything that they object to when it comes to corporations.

How is it possible that this is so hard for you to understand? Frankly, I hope that this is just the result of you digging in your heels because you started a stupid thread that you're embarassed about, and not what you're really thinking.

Because again - if that's what you're really thinking, it's pretty dopey...
 
One more time: Dems "bash" Republicans for POLICIES that favor the rich, and that give corporations tax loopholes & other benefits that they do not see as equitable.

That does not mean "Dems are against corporations," or "Dems are against the rich." It means they are against policies that favor corporations & the rich over everyone else.

So, "going to a fundraiser" w/ Google is not setting policy, or doing anything that they object to when it comes to corporations.

How is it possible that this is so hard for you to understand? Frankly, I hope that this is just the result of you digging in your heels because you started a stupid thread that you're embarassed about, and not what you're really thinking.

Because again - if that's what you're really thinking, it's pretty dopey...

:palm: i've explained it to you in multiple ways, i've used exact titles that support what i say from the whitehouse website, explained to about the policies and you still don't get it...were you born stupid or do you work at it?

if you don't think obama or any dem getting money from a corp will not look out for that corps interests, you are indeed the dumbest bunny on the planet

if you haven't understood the concepts up till now, its likely any more attempts to simplify the concepts down to your level will just not work
 
This is not new ground being covered. The difference between Democrats and Republicans has little to do with funding. I has to do with genetic wiring, priorities, psychological makeup, upbringing and beliefs.

A true assessment IMO...

"Republicans care more about property, Democrats care more about people"
Ted Sorensen - President Kennedy's Special Counsel & Adviser, and primary speechwriter
 
This is not new ground being covered. The difference between Democrats and Republicans has little to do with funding. I has to do with genetic wiring, priorities, psychological makeup, upbringing and beliefs.

A true assessment IMO...

"Republicans care more about property, Democrats care more about people"
Ted Sorensen - President Kennedy's Special Counsel & Adviser, and primary speechwriter

lmao...onceler claims people like you really don't exist
 
:palm: i've explained it to you in multiple ways, i've used exact titles that support what i say from the whitehouse website, explained to about the policies and you still don't get it...were you born stupid or do you work at it?

if you don't think obama or any dem getting money from a corp will not look out for that corps interests, you are indeed the dumbest bunny on the planet

if you haven't understood the concepts up till now, its likely any more attempts to simplify the concepts down to your level will just not work

And you thought that up until this event, Democrats didn't have fundraisers with wealthy donors?

Really?
 
Eighty percent of Americans were against the Citizens United ruling, yet the conservative faction of the Supreme Court made it law. One might say they were acting as activist judges legislating from the bench against the will of the people.
Obviously you are one more ignorant twit with zero concept of how our government is designed to work. Since when are the courts supposed to allow themselves to be swayed by public opinion? Your suggestion of "legislating from the bench" is pure unadulterated hogwash. The 1st Amendment states unequivocally that the right to free speech cannot be abridged. Period. SCOTUS has simply upheld that basic right.

The problem with trying to place limitations on the political rights of corporations is not all corporate entities are business entities. There are significant numbers of corporations whose purpose for being is political. In trying to control business influence in politics through money, the laws invariably also control the right of speech for organizations which were formed for the specific purpose of giving greater voice to people via their right to assemble; also found in the 1st Amendment. As such, any fault with the current situation lies not with the SCOTUS decision that says the 1st Amendment trumps campaign finance reform, but with the laws which govern corporations and allow them to be treated as single entities under the law.

In the necessity to create the legal fiction of corporate personhood, we are faced with a number of problems, not the least of which is the idea that a legal fiction has the same rights as a human being. Other problems include the ability of corporate leadership to (knowingly) make shitty decisions and be completely shielded from any negative consequences of those decisions - but that is another topic. It is a sticky problem; but no more so, and probably less so than the problems which would arise if we did not have laws which allow us to treat a corporation as a single entity.

Bottom line: the SCOTUS decision, even though it includes a number of consequences that include an enhanced ability for big money interests to directly influence government, was the correct decision. What we need to do now is visit the laws which give personhood to corporations, and find a way to rewrite them so the essential concept of single identity is retained for legal purposes, but also place a solid - and constitutional, this time - wall between corporate entity rights, and the rights of PEOPLE, either individually or collectively.
 
Obviously you are one more ignorant twit with zero concept of how our government is designed to work. Since when are the courts supposed to allow themselves to be swayed by public opinion? Your suggestion of "legislating from the bench" is pure unadulterated hogwash. The 1st Amendment states unequivocally that the right to free speech cannot be abridged. Period. SCOTUS has simply upheld that basic right.

The problem with trying to place limitations on the political rights of corporations is not all corporate entities are business entities. There are significant numbers of corporations whose purpose for being is political. In trying to control business influence in politics through money, the laws invariably also control the right of speech for organizations which were formed for the specific purpose of giving greater voice to people via their right to assemble; also found in the 1st Amendment. As such, any fault with the current situation lies not with the SCOTUS decision that says the 1st Amendment trumps campaign finance reform, but with the laws which govern corporations and allow them to be treated as single entities under the law.

In the necessity to create the legal fiction of corporate personhood, we are faced with a number of problems, not the least of which is the idea that a legal fiction has the same rights as a human being. Other problems include the ability of corporate leadership to (knowingly) make shitty decisions and be completely shielded from any negative consequences of those decisions - but that is another topic. It is a sticky problem; but no more so, and probably less so than the problems which would arise if we did not have laws which allow us to treat a corporation as a single entity.

Bottom line: the SCOTUS decision, even though it includes a number of consequences that include an enhanced ability for big money interests to directly influence government, was the correct decision. What we need to do now is visit the laws which give personhood to corporations, and find a way to rewrite them so the essential concept of single identity is retained for legal purposes, but also place a solid - and constitutional, this time - wall between corporate entity rights, and the rights of PEOPLE, either individually or collectively.

the right of free speech is restrained by laws regarding libel and slander plus things like yelling fire in a crowded theater

why should a corporation be granted the same rights as a citizen when it cannot be punished the same way a citizen can be punished, yet scotus has done so...
 
Obviously you are one more ignorant twit with zero concept of how our government is designed to work. Since when are the courts supposed to allow themselves to be swayed by public opinion? Your suggestion of "legislating from the bench" is pure unadulterated hogwash. The 1st Amendment states unequivocally that the right to free speech cannot be abridged. Period. SCOTUS has simply upheld that basic right.

The problem with trying to place limitations on the political rights of corporations is not all corporate entities are business entities. There are significant numbers of corporations whose purpose for being is political. In trying to control business influence in politics through money, the laws invariably also control the right of speech for organizations which were formed for the specific purpose of giving greater voice to people via their right to assemble; also found in the 1st Amendment. As such, any fault with the current situation lies not with the SCOTUS decision that says the 1st Amendment trumps campaign finance reform, but with the laws which govern corporations and allow them to be treated as single entities under the law.

In the necessity to create the legal fiction of corporate personhood, we are faced with a number of problems, not the least of which is the idea that a legal fiction has the same rights as a human being. Other problems include the ability of corporate leadership to (knowingly) make shitty decisions and be completely shielded from any negative consequences of those decisions - but that is another topic. It is a sticky problem; but no more so, and probably less so than the problems which would arise if we did not have laws which allow us to treat a corporation as a single entity.

Bottom line: the SCOTUS decision, even though it includes a number of consequences that include an enhanced ability for big money interests to directly influence government, was the correct decision. What we need to do now is visit the laws which give personhood to corporations, and find a way to rewrite them so the essential concept of single identity is retained for legal purposes, but also place a solid - and constitutional, this time - wall between corporate entity rights, and the rights of PEOPLE, either individually or collectively.

Obviously (I'm) one ignorant twit with zero 'concept' of how our government is designed to work, REALLY? OK, obviously you are not interested in discussion, you want to turn this into a battle. That's fine with me smart ass.

SO...Let's start with some 'concepts'

----------------------------------------------------------
'Concept' - Government, what is it?

...governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness. - Thomas Jefferson, Declaration of Independence

Translation for smart asses: the WILL of the PEOPLE.

----------------------------------------------------------
I don't want to jump ahead and ASSume anything so maybe we need to make sure no 'concept' is overlooked for smart asses like you.

'Concept' -PEOPLE - plural for PERSON (Homo sapiens) - a human being. A living, breathing entity that is mortal.

----------------------------------------------------------
'Concept' - activist judges legislating from the bench

Citizens United vs. FEC WAS activist judges legislating from the bench using the Chief Justices OWN 'concept' of jurisprudence in sworn testimony before Congress:

In his 2005 confirmation hearings, Roberts famously said, "Judges and justices are servants of the law, not the other way around. Judges are like umpires. Umpires don't make the rules; they apply them. The role of an umpire and a judge is critical. They make sure everybody plays by the rules. But it is a limited role. Nobody ever went to a ball game to see the umpire."

Roberts hasn't stood by his own doctrine. Justice John Paul Stevens's dissent in the case properly pointed out that Citizens United case was not properly brought before the Supreme Court. "This procedure is unusual and inadvisable for a court," Stevens said of the process. "Our colleagues' suggestion that 'we are asked to reconsider Austin and, in effect, McConnell," ante, at 1, would be more accurate if rephrased to state that 'we have asked ourselves' to reconsider those cases."

"Justice Stevens makes the point that Roberts decided a case that wasn't even before the Court, and invited the issue before the Court."

Bottom line: activist judges legislating from the bench against the will of the people

----------------------------------------------------------

NOW smart ass, I have a really revolutionary 'concept' - let's take a LOOK at how the authors of the very 'constitution' you claim to defend and have special understanding of ACTUALLY RAN government when they were living, breathing 'PEOPLE' (see previously defined 'concept'). Let's LOOK at how our founding fathers treated corporations; how they defined their role, how they regulated them and how they place limitations on the political rights of corporations. Would THAT be a fair litmus test of how our government is designed to work?

A word that appears nowhere in the Constitution is "corporation," for the writers had no interest in using for-profit corporations to run their new government. In colonial times, corporations were tools of the king's oppression, chartered for the purpose of exploiting the so-called "New World" and shoveling wealth back into Europe. The rich formed joint-stock corporations to distribute the enormous risk of colonizing the Americas and gave them names like the Hudson Bay Company, the British East India Company, and the Massachusetts Bay Colony. Because they were so far from their sovereign - the king - the agents for these corporations had a lot of autonomy to do their work; they could pass laws, levy taxes, and even raise armies to manage and control property and commerce. They were not popular with the colonists.

So the Constitution's authors left control of corporations to state legislatures (10th Amendment), where they would get the closest supervision by the people. Early corporate charters were explicit about what a corporation could do, how, for how long, with whom, where, and when.

Corporations could not own stock in other corporations

They were prohibited from any part of the political process.

Individual stockholders were held personally liable for any harms done in the name of the corporation.

In order to receive the profit-making privileges the shareholders sought, their corporations had to represent a clear benefit for the public good.

When corporations violated any of these terms, their charters were frequently revoked by the state legislatures.

Next...

The first thing to understand is the difference between the natural person and the fictitious person called a corporation. They differ in the purpose for which they are created, in the strength which they possess, and in the restraints under which they act. Man is the handiwork of God and was placed upon earth to carry out a Divine purpose; the corporation is the handiwork of man and created to carry out a money-making policy. There is comparatively little difference in the strength of men; a corporation may be one hundred, one thousand, or even one million times stronger than the average man. Man acts under the restraints of conscience, and is influenced also by a belief in a future life. A corporation has no soul and cares nothing about the hereafter.
—William Jennings Bryan, 1912 Ohio Constitutional Convention
 
Obviously (I'm) one ignorant twit with zero 'concept' of how our government is designed to work, REALLY? OK, obviously you are not interested in discussion, you want to turn this into a battle. That's fine with me smart ass.

SO...Let's start with some 'concepts'

----------------------------------------------------------
'Concept' - Government, what is it?

...governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness. - Thomas Jefferson, Declaration of Independence

Translation for smart asses: the WILL of the PEOPLE.

----------------------------------------------------------
I don't want to jump ahead and ASSume anything so maybe we need to make sure no 'concept' is overlooked for smart asses like you.

'Concept' -PEOPLE - plural for PERSON (Homo sapiens) - a human being. A living, breathing entity that is mortal.

----------------------------------------------------------
'Concept' - activist judges legislating from the bench

Citizens United vs. FEC WAS activist judges legislating from the bench using the Chief Justices OWN 'concept' of jurisprudence in sworn testimony before Congress:

In his 2005 confirmation hearings, Roberts famously said, "Judges and justices are servants of the law, not the other way around. Judges are like umpires. Umpires don't make the rules; they apply them. The role of an umpire and a judge is critical. They make sure everybody plays by the rules. But it is a limited role. Nobody ever went to a ball game to see the umpire."

Roberts hasn't stood by his own doctrine. Justice John Paul Stevens's dissent in the case properly pointed out that Citizens United case was not properly brought before the Supreme Court. "This procedure is unusual and inadvisable for a court," Stevens said of the process. "Our colleagues' suggestion that 'we are asked to reconsider Austin and, in effect, McConnell," ante, at 1, would be more accurate if rephrased to state that 'we have asked ourselves' to reconsider those cases."

"Justice Stevens makes the point that Roberts decided a case that wasn't even before the Court, and invited the issue before the Court."

Bottom line: activist judges legislating from the bench against the will of the people

----------------------------------------------------------

NOW smart ass, I have a really revolutionary 'concept' - let's take a LOOK at how the authors of the very 'constitution' you claim to defend and have special understanding of ACTUALLY RAN government when they were living, breathing 'PEOPLE' (see previously defined 'concept'). Let's LOOK at how our founding fathers treated corporations; how they defined their role, how they regulated them and how they place limitations on the political rights of corporations. Would THAT be a fair litmus test of how our government is designed to work?

A word that appears nowhere in the Constitution is "corporation," for the writers had no interest in using for-profit corporations to run their new government. In colonial times, corporations were tools of the king's oppression, chartered for the purpose of exploiting the so-called "New World" and shoveling wealth back into Europe. The rich formed joint-stock corporations to distribute the enormous risk of colonizing the Americas and gave them names like the Hudson Bay Company, the British East India Company, and the Massachusetts Bay Colony. Because they were so far from their sovereign - the king - the agents for these corporations had a lot of autonomy to do their work; they could pass laws, levy taxes, and even raise armies to manage and control property and commerce. They were not popular with the colonists.

So the Constitution's authors left control of corporations to state legislatures (10th Amendment), where they would get the closest supervision by the people. Early corporate charters were explicit about what a corporation could do, how, for how long, with whom, where, and when.

Corporations could not own stock in other corporations

They were prohibited from any part of the political process.

Individual stockholders were held personally liable for any harms done in the name of the corporation.

In order to receive the profit-making privileges the shareholders sought, their corporations had to represent a clear benefit for the public good.

When corporations violated any of these terms, their charters were frequently revoked by the state legislatures.

Next...

The first thing to understand is the difference between the natural person and the fictitious person called a corporation. They differ in the purpose for which they are created, in the strength which they possess, and in the restraints under which they act. Man is the handiwork of God and was placed upon earth to carry out a Divine purpose; the corporation is the handiwork of man and created to carry out a money-making policy. There is comparatively little difference in the strength of men; a corporation may be one hundred, one thousand, or even one million times stronger than the average man. Man acts under the restraints of conscience, and is influenced also by a belief in a future life. A corporation has no soul and cares nothing about the hereafter.
—William Jennings Bryan, 1912 Ohio Constitutional Convention

Wonderful. You can quote part of the Declaration of Independence. (Or did you coppy and paste it?)

Whatever. Makes no difference. In no way, shape, or form is the courts system subject to popular opinion. Lower courts purpose are to apply the law, nothing more, nothing less. The act of applying written law (you know, LAWS written and passed by the LEGISLATURE, who, in turn, are ELECTED by the PEOPLE?) cannot be swayed by opinion. The law says what it says. If it is a bad law, then it needs to be changed.

If the law is bad because it violates the Constitution, then that is exactly what the federal appellate courts are for: they apply the Constitution to the law. If the law is in violation of the Constitution, the the law is negated. (See U.S Constitution, Article VI, Para 2) Therefore your complaint that SCOTUS is "legislating from the bench" due to the fact that they ignored popular opinion is, as I said earlier, pure bullshit based on a profound level of ignorance of U.S. government.

As for how corporations USED to be managed, that is history. While I am personally not in favor of the current legal precedence that corporations are treated, for all intents and purposes, as persons under the law, that is how the law currently reads. I also recognize the necessity to create the legal fiction of corporations as single entities, as well as the protections instated in the intervening years that insulate corporations from random government will. Additionally, corporations operate world wide these days, let alone nation wide. A state decides Albertson's doesn't deserve their charter any more, what happens to the 1000s of Albertson's stores all over the nation?

As such, the decision was and is appropriate according to CURRENT law. Yes, indeed, we must adjust according to all the historical events that have occurred between now and the legalities you reference. Try to remember, about the time they allowed state legislatures to control corporate charters to the degree referenced, they also allowed the ownership of persons of color, and the willful murder of Native Americans. Much has changed in the intervening years. Most of it, but admittedly not all, for the better.

Meanwhile, there are means available for change that do involve the will of the people - specifically, our legislatures. The legislatures of the states and of the federal government are the ones who write the laws, NOT the courts. Want a law changed, then change it via the means designed into our system of government. If you LIKE a law, and it has been determined unconstitutional, then petition your legislatures to change the Constitution.

Again, that is how the system is designed, which you continue to show your ignorance of. What it was NOT designed for is to allow the courts, or any other entity, to IGNORE the Constitution just because most people like a particular law. That is the direction of tyranny of the majority; a phenomenon the founders expressed great caution for following generations to avoid. Again, that is how the government is designed to operate. That is why we are a REPUBLIC, and not a democracy.


(aside: if the founders had INTENDED to define the relationship between corporate business and government, they would have made it part of the Constitution. That they did not pretty much means your "original intent" diatribe is as meaningless as your whining about "the Courts ignored the will of the people" bullshit.)
 
Ironic, because in my interaction with rightists, I never hear them talk about or defend the little guy, the middle class or the working guy. Matter of fact, not only do the right wing solutions benefit the wealthy, they always require some group of human beings to evaporate.

The above is quite simply... retarded. Nothing more than talking points from the Dem masters.
 
The above is quite simply... retarded. Nothing more than talking points from the Dem masters.

Talking points are the property of conservatives, not liberals. It's what I see on a consistent basis. But it is not a new fad or phenomena. It IS conservatism.

What is conservatism?
A: Conservatism is the domination of society by an aristocracy.

Q: What is wrong with conservatism?
A: Conservatism is incompatible with democracy, prosperity, and civilization in general. It is a destructive system of inequality and prejudice that is founded on deception and has no place in the modern world.

These ideas are not new. Indeed they were common sense until recently. Nowadays, though, most of the people who call themselves "conservatives" have little notion of what conservatism even is. They have been deceived by one of the great public relations campaigns of human history. Only by analyzing this deception will it become possible to revive democracy in the United States.

1 The Main Arguments of Conservatism

From the pharaohs of ancient Egypt to the self-regarding thugs of ancient Rome to the glorified warlords of medieval and absolutist Europe, in nearly every urbanized society throughout human history, there have been people who have tried to constitute themselves as an aristocracy. These people and their allies are the conservatives.

The tactics of conservatism vary widely by place and time. But the most central feature of conservatism is deference: a psychologically internalized attitude on the part of the common people that the aristocracy are better people than they are. Modern-day liberals often theorize that conservatives use "social issues" as a way to mask economic objectives, but this is almost backward: the true goal of conservatism is to establish an aristocracy, which is a social and psychological condition of inequality. Economic inequality and regressive taxation, while certainly welcomed by the aristocracy, are best understood as a means to their actual goal, which is simply to be aristocrats. More generally, it is crucial to conservatism that the people must literally love the order that dominates them. Of course this notion sounds bizarre to modern ears, but it is perfectly overt in the writings of leading conservative theorists such as Burke. Democracy, for them, is not about the mechanisms of voting and office-holding. In fact conservatives hold a wide variety of opinions about such secondary formal matters. For conservatives, rather, democracy is a psychological condition. People who believe that the aristocracy rightfully dominates society because of its intrinsic superiority are conservatives; democrats, by contrast, believe that they are of equal social worth. Conservatism is the antithesis of democracy. This has been true for thousands of years.

The defenders of aristocracy represent aristocracy as a natural phenomenon, but in reality it is the most artificial thing on earth. Although one of the goals of every aristocracy is to make its preferred social order seem permanent and timeless, in reality conservatism must be reinvented in every generation. This is true for many reasons, including internal conflicts among the aristocrats; institutional shifts due to climate, markets, or warfare; and ideological gains and losses in the perpetual struggle against democracy. In some societies the aristocracy is rigid, closed, and stratified, while in others it is more of an aspiration among various fluid and factionalized groups. The situation in the United States right now is toward the latter end of the spectrum. A main goal in life of all aristocrats, however, is to pass on their positions of privilege to their children, and many of the aspiring aristocrats of the United States are appointing their children to positions in government and in the archipelago of think tanks that promote conservative theories.

Conservatism in every place and time is founded on deception. The deceptions of conservatism today are especially sophisticated, simply because culture today is sufficiently democratic that the myths of earlier times will no longer suffice.

Before analyzing current-day conservatism's machinery of deception, let us outline the main arguments of conservatism. Although these arguments have changed little through history, they might seem unfamiliar to many people today, indeed even to people who claim to be conservatives. That unfamiliarity is a very recent phenomenon. Yet it is only through the classical arguments and their fallacies that we can begin to analyze how conservatism operates now.

More

"We're going to crush labor as a political entity"
Grover Norquist - Republican economic guru

While not all conservatives are authoritarians; all highly authoritarian personalities are political conservatives.
Robert Altmeyer - The Authoritarians
 
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Talking points are the property of conservatives, not liberals.


I'm sorry but that is off the partisan scale to try and say Democrats/liberals don't have talking points. You can argue the degree if you would like but both sides have them.

I find somewhat ironic as well that a site that articles used here have been posted from is the liberal Talking Points Memo site.
 
I'm sorry but that is off the partisan scale to try and say Democrats/liberals don't have talking points. You can argue the degree if you would like but both sides have them.

I find somewhat ironic as well that a site that articles used here have been posted from is the liberal Talking Points Memo site.

Maybe you should read the article, it would save you from putting your foot in your mouth.

Talking points is really one of the huge advantages conservatives have over liberals. Conservatives view words and phrases of language like territory in warfare: owned and controlled by one side or the other. One of the central goals of conservatism, as for example with Newt Gingrich's lists of words, is to take control of every word and phrase in the English language.

Try again...
 
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