Lt. Col. Lakin Court Martial

Damocles

Accedo!
Staff member
Today will end the Court Martial trial of Lt. Col. Lakin.

Some of you will remember the Doctor who chose to end his 18 year career in the military on a sour note, refusing orders from the CIC to go to Afghanistan based on the constitutionality of his position and whether such orders are legal therefore.

Today, after pleading guilty to refusing orders and innocent to missing movement, the government will hear his defense for the remaining charge and the sentencing portion will begin.

Lakin was given no chance to bring witnesses on his behalf in the trial, refused discovery, refused active defense on one of the charges (the one he pleaded guilty to).

My question is not whether he was wrong or right on this matter, but whether you in the same position as the President might send over somebody with a certified copy of your original birth certificate to end this charade and let this gentleman continue his career without blemish or would you continue to reject all reasonable request for that documentation?

To me this is a simple question of humanity. If such a simple action by myself would end a person's destruction a simple 20 minute drive could fix I would definitely send a courier over with the documentation and orders to allow him to reconsider joining his unit in Afghanistan rather than face trial on this when such a simple request could have forestalled such an action.

I believe that Lakin will spend at least 6 months in Leavenworth for the stance he's taken in support of his oath. I'm not personally a "birther" or "proofer" and believe that Obama could end this charade with a simple gesture of openness, but I also believe that media silence allows him to continue to flaunt one of the simplest requests for information. One that we've all had to perform previously in our lifetimes.
 
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html

This was posted on Factcheck.org in August. Seems as though this entire trial could have been avoided.
Not really. That certification of live birth could not be used to even get a passport (they specifically state no "certifications" or "short form" birth certificates will be accepted only full certified copies of originals are accepted, this is because such forms do not verify citizenship.)

Basically, accepting that document as perfect evidence when they aren't even accepted by the passport authorities seems a bit spurious. I can understand Lakin's position, although I fully believe that Obama was born in Honolulu and is therefore a native born citizen. My personal belief also would not be accepted as evidence, so that's pretty much where we are.
 
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html

This was posted on Factcheck.org in August. Seems as though this entire trial could have been avoided.

he wanted to see a certified copy of the original...it has never been provided

the guy stated clearly that if obama showed a certified copy of the original, he would ship out...why obama would not simply release a copy is mind boggling...was this guy right in not obeying orders, i don't think so, however, look how much court time has been wasted because obama won't release a copy of the original...silliness
 
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html

This was posted on Factcheck.org in August. Seems as though this entire trial could have been avoided.
Which doesn't answer one bit of the question I posed.

Would you, as President, stubbornly allow this man's career to end this way just because you didn't want people to see a certified copy of your original birth certificate (not a certification or short form) or would you, out of simple humanity, provide the documentation and give the gentleman a second chance at life?
 
Which doesn't answer one bit of the question I posed.

Would you, as President, stubbornly allow this man's career to end this way just because you didn't want people to see a certified copy of your original birth certificate (not a certification or short form) or would you, out of simple humanity, provide the documentation and give the gentleman a second chance at life?

Damo, you've served in the military, correct?

would you, as an employer, allow an employee to demand something from you before he agrees to continue working for you?
 
Damo, you've served in the military, correct?

would you, as an employer, allow an employee to demand something from you before he agrees to continue working for you?
It depends on whether I forced him to take an oath to support something specific and whether the request was reasonably related to that oath. In this case, I would simply provide a certified copy of my original simply out of compassion for the man's family whether or not I felt he was 'right'. It is such a simple thing.
 
Today will end the Court Martial trial of Lt. Col. Lakin.

Some of you will remember the Doctor who chose to end his 18 year career in the military on a sour note, refusing orders from the CIC to go to Afghanistan based on the constitutionality of his position and whether such orders are legal therefore.

Today, after pleading guilty to refusing orders and innocent to missing movement, the government will hear his defense for the remaining charge and the sentencing portion will begin.

Lakin was given no chance to bring witnesses on his behalf in the trial, refused discovery, refused active defense on one of the charges (the one he pleaded guilty to).

My question is not whether he was wrong or right on this matter, but whether you in the same position as the President might send over somebody with a certified copy of your original birth certificate to end this charade and let this gentleman continue his career without blemish or would you continue to reject all reasonable request for that documentation?

To me this is a simple question of humanity. If such a simple action by myself would end a person's destruction a simple 20 minute drive could fix I would definitely send a courier over with the documentation and orders to allow him to reconsider joining his unit in Afghanistan rather than face trial on this when such a simple request could have forestalled such an action.

I believe that Lakin will spend at least 6 months in Leavenworth for the stance he's taken in support of his oath. I'm not personally a "birther" or "proofer" and believe that Obama could end this charade with a simple gesture of openness, but I also believe that media silence allows him to continue to flaunt one of the simplest requests for information. One that we've all had to perform previously in our lifetimes.
I was unaware that it was a CIC responsibility to condone what is a clear cut case of insubordination and deriliction of duty. Since when is it the Presidents responsibility to defend this man?
 
It depends on whether I forced him to take an oath to support something specific and whether the request was reasonably related to that oath. In this case, I would simply provide a certified copy of my original simply out of compassion for the man's family whether or not I felt he was 'right'. It is such a simple thing.

and then open a pandoras box for evey person in the armed forces who is a political disident? Damo, this is just pure birther non-sense.
 
and then open a pandoras box for evey person in the armed forces who is a political disident? Damo, this is just pure birther non-sense.
Nah, one can use that authority in a case by case basis. It's humorous to suggest that by helping one guy out he'd suddenly be overwhelmed by stuff he then "had" to do. In this case I would do this simply because it was so easy and the guy has quite a stellar record otherwise.

Your implication here is just funny, it's like suggesting that because he uses the power to pardon he'll have to pardon everybody that does that same crime as the one he pardoned forever and into eternity. It's just not true, or even reasonable, to suggest that such is a reasonable application of "precedent".
 
I was unaware that it was a CIC responsibility to condone what is a clear cut case of insubordination and deriliction of duty. Since when is it the Presidents responsibility to defend this man?
It isn't. Where did I say it was his "duty" or "responsibility"? You are attempting to argue what you want me to have said rather than what I actually have said.
 
Which doesn't answer one bit of the question I posed.

Would you, as President, stubbornly allow this man's career to end this way just because you didn't want people to see a certified copy of your original birth certificate (not a certification or short form) or would you, out of simple humanity, provide the documentation and give the gentleman a second chance at life?

If this man is such an idiot that he'll end his career and face a court-martial rather than acknowledge the indisputable evidence that Obama's a citizen, good riddance and don't let the screen door hit him on the way out. Why should the government pander to his insanity?

I wonder if Lakin and the other birthers also think the Obama family, in collusion with the local papers, faked the newspaper announcements of BHO's birth in Hawaii 49 years ago.

Kick this jerk Lakin to the curb and forget about him. He's his own worst enemy.
 
Nah, one can use that authority in a case by case basis. It's humorous to suggest that by helping one guy out he'd suddenly be overwhelmed by stuff he then "had" to do. In this case I would do this simply because it was so easy and the guy has quite a stellar record otherwise.

Your implication here is just funny, it's like suggesting that because he uses the power to pardon he'll have to pardon everybody that does that same crime as the one he pardoned forever and into eternity. It's just not true, or even reasonable, to suggest that such is a reasonable application of "precedent".

What's really funny is any implication that if Obama only produced the "right" certificate, all the birther nonsense would come to a screeching halt.
 
Today will end the Court Martial trial of Lt. Col. Lakin.

Some of you will remember the Doctor who chose to end his 18 year career in the military on a sour note, refusing orders from the CIC to go to Afghanistan based on the constitutionality of his position and whether such orders are legal therefore.

Today, after pleading guilty to refusing orders and innocent to missing movement, the government will hear his defense for the remaining charge and the sentencing portion will begin.

Lakin was given no chance to bring witnesses on his behalf in the trial, refused discovery, refused active defense on one of the charges (the one he pleaded guilty to).

My question is not whether he was wrong or right on this matter, but whether you in the same position as the President might send over somebody with a certified copy of your original birth certificate to end this charade and let this gentleman continue his career without blemish or would you continue to reject all reasonable request for that documentation?

To me this is a simple question of humanity. If such a simple action by myself would end a person's destruction a simple 20 minute drive could fix I would definitely send a courier over with the documentation and orders to allow him to reconsider joining his unit in Afghanistan rather than face trial on this when such a simple request could have forestalled such an action.

I believe that Lakin will spend at least 6 months in Leavenworth for the stance he's taken in support of his oath. I'm not personally a "birther" or "proofer" and believe that Obama could end this charade with a simple gesture of openness, but I also believe that media silence allows him to continue to flaunt one of the simplest requests for information. One that we've all had to perform previously in our lifetimes.

all he had to do was request a copy of the birth certificate from hawaii or have his lawyer do so, but no he got up on his high horse and LOST
 
all he had to do was request a copy of the birth certificate from hawaii or have his lawyer do so, but no he got up on his high horse and LOST
Um... no. His lawyer asked for discovery, they were refused. That being said, I'm reasonably sure he's on his way to prison. I don't plan on busting him out.
 
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