The Curse of Poverty

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MEOW
(Excerpt)Researchers at the University of Texas claim that poverty may affect how children achieve their genetic potential. Using 750 sets of twins as subjects, the team of psychologists led by assistant professor Elliot Tucker-Drob found that 50 percent of the progress wealthier children show on mental ability tests can be attributed to genetics. Children from poor families, however, showed almost no progress attributable to genetics.

Don't get too carried away with the conclusions this might suggest. Based on this study, rich kids are not genetically superior to children of poverty. They're simply provided with more opportunities to fulfill their potential.(End)
http://www.salon.com/news/psycholog...ture/2011/01/10/child_health_poverty_genetics

What will it take before people deal with financial injustice?
 
apple0154 said:
(Excerpt)Researchers at the University of Texas claim that poverty may affect how children achieve their genetic potential. Using 750 sets of twins as subjects, the team of psychologists led by assistant professor Elliot Tucker-Drob found that 50 percent of the progress wealthier children show on mental ability tests can be attributed to genetics. Children from poor families, however, showed almost no progress attributable to genetics.

Don't get too carried away with the conclusions this might suggest. Based on this study, rich kids are not genetically superior to children of poverty. They're simply provided with more opportunities to fulfill their potential.(End)
http://www.salon.com/news/psycholog...ture/2011/01/10/child_health_poverty_genetics

What will it take before people deal with financial injustice?
Click to expand...

The results basically tell us that rich people worked hard to provide for their children. Poor people did not make good decisions and did not have as much to give their children.

Are you suggesting that we use the power of the gov't to force those rich parents to support someone else's kids too?
 
I seriously doubt that more than .01% of the U.S. population (or Canada for that matter) know what REAL poverty is. It sure as hell is NOT living in government subsidized housing living on government subsidized food while using government subsidized income to watch premium cable channels.

There are those in this nation who are truly poor. But the vast majority we label as living in poverty are not anywhere close to being as bad off as the general populace are led to believe. But they ARE trapped in government assistance, which will be cut off two to three times as fast as any self-derived income increases, making sure they stay where they are: an enslaved voting block for more government.

Not to mention this study sounds like a lot of psychobabble horse cookies. How do you determine what "percentage" of cognitive ability is due to genetics? SWAG based on "similar" environment but resulting in different performance levels? Did they account for factors such as differences in learning styles? Put two toddlers with significantly different learning styles in the same learning environment and there will almost inevitably be differences in performance having nothing to do with genetic differences. How do they control all the variables that can and do have an effect on cognitive development, and separate those from genetics? Unless they raised their subjects in a laboratory like a bunch of white mice, it is impractical.
 
Where's that emo, oh, never mind, FUCK YEAH!

Go out and meet some real poor people instead of believing everything you read, dumb shit.
 
Rana said:
Where's that emo, oh, never mind, FUCK YEAH!

Go out and meet some real poor people instead of believing everything you read, dumb shit.
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Did you grow up in a family of 6, plus grand parents, in a 2-room shack? (That's two rooms total, not two bedrooms). Did you help feed your family at age 8 by having it your chore to set snares for rabbits, squirrels, and gophers? Did you go out with your family after the harvesters left to glean the small strips of wheat left standing by the combines? Did you ever put worn socks on your hands so you could dig through the snow for cow chips to heat your home? Did you ever feel the need give over your helping of stew so your little brother would stop crying?

No?

In that case, I guess you have nothing to tell me about whom I need to meet.
 
The fact that, in some exceptional cases, people get out of poverty and become successful, means that there's absolutely no injustice in a person having a much lower chance of being successful in life through no fault of their own.
 
WinterBorn said:
The results basically tell us that rich people worked hard to provide for their children. Poor people did not make good decisions and did not have as much to give their children.
Click to expand...

Yes, children of rich kids deserve societal advantage that they didn't earn, and children of poor kids deserve societal disadvantage that has nothing to do with their own decisions. That is justice.
 
Good Luck said:
Did you grow up in a family of 6, plus grand parents, in a 2-room shack? (That's two rooms total, not two bedrooms). Did you help feed your family at age 8 by having it your chore to set snares for rabbits, squirrels, and gophers? Did you go out with your family after the harvesters left to glean the small strips of wheat left standing by the combines? Did you ever put worn socks on your hands so you could dig through the snow for cow chips to heat your home? Did you ever feel the need give over your helping of stew so your little brother would stop crying?

No?

In that case, I guess you have nothing to tell me about whom I need to meet.
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This is why we help people, I am sorry if this is your life and your family did not seek help. No child should ever have to cry because they are hungry in the USA.
 
Rana said:
This is why we help people, I am sorry if this is your life and your family did not seek help. No child should ever have to cry because they are hungry in the USA.
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I have no problem with helping people, at least those in genuine need of help.

What I have a problem with is the manner in which "help" programs are designed to literally enmesh the recipients into a permanent, multi-generational trap. When a family is dependent on 3-4 different assistance programs, and each program, individually, reduces benefits by $50 when the recipient goes out and makes an extra $100, guess what the net result is? They stay home rather than try to work their way out, because they are literally PUNISHED for working harder. Somehow, I have a problem with that.

Also, what I do have a problem with is the current attitude that anyone below a middle-income standard of living is poverty stricken. Sorry, but having to eat cheap food, and having to put a set of bunk beds in a single bedroom for the kids is NOT poverty in my book. If you disbelieve what I am getting at, take a day and go observe the types of things purchased using food stamps, and compare the amounts of food they COULD be getting for the same, or less, if they were forced by necessity to shop smarter. I recently was behind a woman in the grocers who insisted on buying Eggland's Best eggs with her WIC voucher, at $2.98/dozen when the same store had store brand eggs on sale for 99 cents. Somehow I have a problem with that. (Good for the store, they pointed out that WIC does not allow the purchase of specialty eggs, and Eggland's Best falls in that category.)

Or look at the incredibly moronic federal regulation that states a 2 year old girl cannot sleep in the same bedroom as her 4 year old brother, so that family "needs" a 3 bedroom apartment at far greater cost to the system. Somehow, I have a problem with that.

With the system we have in place, not only do we end up with people who are literally discouraged by the assistance programs themselves to try and improve their lot in life, but we also end up with people having NO food and NO home because we spend too much time, effort, and money helping people "afford" far more than they NEED. As a society we have forgotten the difference between need and desire, so we end up breaking our economy trying to cater to desires when defining poverty.
 
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There are too many people like the situation you described, I know several families that are too proud to ask for help.

I know there are those that take advantage of the situation, and about those people I feel the same way, but I know too many good folks who are losing ground these days and they don't want hand outs, they just want a job that pays enough so that they can feed the family. They have had to sell a lot of their "extras" just to be able to eat and for others, they appreciate the "safety" nets until they are able to get back on their feet.

I just hate it when people try to lump the poor together, frauds don't count.
 
WinterBorn said:
The results basically tell us that rich people worked hard to provide for their children. Poor people did not make good decisions and did not have as much to give their children.

Are you suggesting that we use the power of the gov't to force those rich parents to support someone else's kids too?
Click to expand...

Did not make good decisions, that is crap, too.
 
Rana said:
Did not make good decisions, that is crap, too.
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No, its not crap. I am not saying that is all the poor. Some have had tragedies limit their potential.

But many, many of those on gov't assistance are there because they chose to goof off in school, chose to run with a gang, or chose to do drugs. The fact that some do make it out shows the validity of that.
 
Good Luck said:
I seriously doubt that more than .01% of the U.S. population (or Canada for that matter) know what REAL poverty is. It sure as hell is NOT living in government subsidized housing living on government subsidized food while using government subsidized income to watch premium cable channels.

There are those in this nation who are truly poor. But the vast majority we label as living in poverty are not anywhere close to being as bad off as the general populace are led to believe. But they ARE trapped in government assistance, which will be cut off two to three times as fast as any self-derived income increases, making sure they stay where they are: an enslaved voting block for more government.

Not to mention this study sounds like a lot of psychobabble horse cookies. How do you determine what "percentage" of cognitive ability is due to genetics? SWAG based on "similar" environment but resulting in different performance levels? Did they account for factors such as differences in learning styles? Put two toddlers with significantly different learning styles in the same learning environment and there will almost inevitably be differences in performance having nothing to do with genetic differences. How do they control all the variables that can and do have an effect on cognitive development, and separate those from genetics? Unless they raised their subjects in a laboratory like a bunch of white mice, it is impractical.
Click to expand...

I used to believe this neocon babble. But now when you insist on shipping all jobs overseas with your globalization treachery, your conservative ideas no longer suffice, and are just a form of self-induced blindness.
 
Good Luck said:
I seriously doubt that more than .01% of the U.S. population (or Canada for that matter) know what REAL poverty is. It sure as hell is NOT living in government subsidized housing living on government subsidized food while using government subsidized income to watch premium cable channels.

There are those in this nation who are truly poor. But the vast majority we label as living in poverty are not anywhere close to being as bad off as the general populace are led to believe. But they ARE trapped in government assistance, which will be cut off two to three times as fast as any self-derived income increases, making sure they stay where they are: an enslaved voting block for more government.

Not to mention this study sounds like a lot of psychobabble horse cookies. How do you determine what "percentage" of cognitive ability is due to genetics? SWAG based on "similar" environment but resulting in different performance levels? Did they account for factors such as differences in learning styles? Put two toddlers with significantly different learning styles in the same learning environment and there will almost inevitably be differences in performance having nothing to do with genetic differences. How do they control all the variables that can and do have an effect on cognitive development, and separate those from genetics? Unless they raised their subjects in a laboratory like a bunch of white mice, it is impractical.
Click to expand...

It was a twin study so they had very similar, if not identical genetics.
 
Rana said:
This is why we help people, I am sorry if this is your life and your family did not seek help. No child should ever have to cry because they are hungry in the USA.
Click to expand...

What's with that type of thinking? It's almost like if one poor person had a hardscrabble life, other poor people don't deserve a helping hand and should just suck it up.

Yet people talk about wanting their kids to have a better life than the parents. How does this compute?
 
WinterBorn said:
The results basically tell us that rich people worked hard to provide for their children. Poor people did not make good decisions and did not have as much to give their children.
Click to expand...

Not necessarily. I don't buy a direct correlation between poverty and poor decision-making.

Are you suggesting that we use the power of the gov't to force those rich parents to support someone else's kids too?
Click to expand...

I'd rather the power of government force me to support other kids, than to use my taxes on a bloated military budget and wars that kill other kids.
 
Good Luck said:
Did you grow up in a family of 6, plus grand parents, in a 2-room shack? (That's two rooms total, not two bedrooms). Did you help feed your family at age 8 by having it your chore to set snares for rabbits, squirrels, and gophers? Did you go out with your family after the harvesters left to glean the small strips of wheat left standing by the combines? Did you ever put worn socks on your hands so you could dig through the snow for cow chips to heat your home? Did you ever feel the need give over your helping of stew so your little brother would stop crying?

No?

In that case, I guess you have nothing to tell me about whom I need to meet.
Click to expand...

do you know what its like to live in poverty in the city?

Where the neighborhood is so bad your 8 year old cant go out alone EVEN if there were any critters snare to eat. Where you walk past places with food you see and smell but cant have becuase there is no money.

There is NO strips of wheat next to the combines to take advantage of,

When your gas gets cut off because you had no money to pay it and there is nothing you can gather (like horse turds) to make it warm?

Where you have to buy crap food at the corner store because it would cost more to travel the miles it would take you to find a REAL grocery store.


It always amazing me the people who come out of poverty that even after their experience come out hating the poor.

Its a real slice of self hate.

Poor people are just as valuble as you were when you were poor, they are just as honest and hard working.

You want for some reason to think you were the cream of the crop and other poor people were just the scum you grew out of.


Such love for your fellow man is just overwhelming.


The most honest and giving people I have known in my life were the dirt poor.
 
Let's try spending a trillion less on the military and get better safety nets and free college for the bottom half of families on the income ladder.
 
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