the epa has approved 15% gasahol

Schadenfreude said:
gasahol from corn sucks, ethanol from sugar cane like is used in brazil is much better and cheaper
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ethanol from sugar cane is better and cheaper in Brazil because they produced more sugar cane than they knew what to do with......we grow hardly any sugar cane in the US and outside of the Florida Everglades, have very little land on which it would grow.....ethanol from corn was better for the Midwest because we produced more corn than we knew what to do with.......ethanol from wood chips makes sense in Oregon because they have wood chips they don't know what to do with.....ethanol from orange rinds makes sense in Florida because they have orange rinds left from juicing they don't know what to do with......are we sensing a pattern yet?......
 
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First, wood alcohol is methanol.
Second, the reason Brazil's program works is because the entire plant is used for fuel, unlike here, where just the kernals are used. This is just an overpriced farm subsidy which has dramaticaly increased world wide starvation.
Third, sorry, no pattern detectable so far, except Neocon greed and stupidity.
 
And what about classic cars? Ethanol plays havoc with those cars including blocking carb jets and destroying carb gaskets. :(
 
Dune said:
First, wood alcohol is methanol.
Second, the reason Brazil's program works is because the entire plant is used for fuel, unlike here, where just the kernals are used. This is just an overpriced farm subsidy which has dramaticaly increased world wide starvation.
Third, sorry, no pattern detectable so far, except Neocon greed and stupidity.
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It's not working all that well in Brazil from what I hear. They are destroying land in order to grow new crops.
 
Dune said:
First, wood alcohol is methanol.
Second, the reason Brazil's program works is because the entire plant is used for fuel, unlike here, where just the kernals are used. This is just an overpriced farm subsidy which has dramaticaly increased world wide starvation.
Third, sorry, no pattern detectable so far, except Neocon greed and stupidity.
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actually "wood" alcohol is a common name for methanol.....but you can make ethanol from wood, grass, algae....pretty much any vegetable matter.....as for the rest you should read up on the issue a bit before you embarrass yourself further.....

http://www.denverpost.com/ci_5171879?source=rss

it makes sense to produce ethanol from any cellulose material that is in surplus or going to waste.....that's precisely what was happening to corn in the Midwest US ten years ago......now it has a new use.....they've used the pulp from juice oranges in Florida, the bark from lumber cuttings in the the Northwest....the reason Brazil used sugar cane in the first place was they were producing more of it than they could sell.....
 
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PostmodernProphet said:
actually "wood" alcohol is a common name for methanol.....but you can make ethanol from wood, grass, algae....pretty much any vegetable matter.....as for the rest you should read up on the issue a bit before you embarrass yourself further.....

http://www.denverpost.com/ci_5171879?source=rss

it makes sense to produce ethanol from any cellulose material that is in surplus or going to waste.....that's precisely what was happening to corn in the Midwest US ten years ago......now it has a new use.....they've used the pulp from juice oranges in Florida, the bark from lumber cuttings in the the Northwest....the reason Brazil used sugar cane in the first place was they were producing more of it than they could sell.....
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What did I miss? Ethanol is made from corn kernals acording to your link, as I said, and I don't feel very embarassed. Why don't you embarass me.
 
Dune said:
What did I miss? Ethanol is made from corn kernals acording to your link, as I said, and I don't feel very embarassed. Why don't you embarass me.
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?????....perhaps I misunderstood your post......did you not deny that ethanol can be made from wood?......beyond that we have the ignorance evident in your claim that ethanol production is a farm subsidy and the claim that ethanol production has dramatically increased world starvation......

a farm subsidy was the money the government was paying farmers for the corn that was sitting around unused....a subsidy no longer necessary because farmer can sell their corn now as a result of an energy subsidy.....not only does the ethanol production help reduce our reliance on Venezuela, it saves us money on farm subsidies.....
 
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PostmodernProphet said:
?????....perhaps I misunderstood your post......did you not deny that ethanol can be made from wood?......beyond that we have the ignorance evident in your claim that ethanol production is a farm subsidy and the claim that ethanol production has dramatically increased world starvation......

a farm subsidy was the money the government was paying farmers for the corn that was sitting around unused....a subsidy no longer necessary because farmer can sell their corn now as a result of an energy subsidy.....not only does the ethanol production help reduce our reliance on Venezuela, it saves us money on farm subsidies.....
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You misunderstood most everything you've been exposed to your whole life.

It is not O.K. to mandate purchase of health insurance but it is fine to mandate purchase of ethanol, regardless of how ineffective it is at;

1. reducing dependance on foreign oil, not.

2. improving gas milage, not

3. returning as much fuel as is consumed in it's production, not.

4. why don't you research starvation before blathering. Saying something you disagree with is not proof of my ignorance.

It would be one thing if the ignorant bastards at least made cellulosic ethanol from the stalks and cobs, but to use just the kernals, for a net increase in use of fossil fuel, while reducing the value to the gasoline consumer due to lower milage, combined with increased cost is criminal, and that you defend such, while glibly dismissing the starvation issue is proof of your ignorance.
 
Louisiana is just behind Fl in cane production, the Iowa political strength has more to do with it than lack of sugarcane.
 
Dune said:
First, wood alcohol is methanol.
Second, the reason Brazil's program works is because the entire plant is used for fuel, unlike here, where just the kernals are used. This is just an overpriced farm subsidy which has dramaticaly increased world wide starvation.
Third, sorry, no pattern detectable so far, except Neocon greed and stupidity.
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Actually Dune you can make either methanol or ethanol from wood chips.
 
Damocles said:
It's not working all that well in Brazil from what I hear. They are destroying land in order to grow new crops.
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Using food crops to produce fuel grade alcohols doesn't really make a whole lot of sense. It's neither cost affective or sustainable in the long run. There are cellulosic plants well suited for producing alcohol that will grow on non-arable land which are much better suited for this purpose. Using crops like corn is important in that it can begin to produce the political and economic will to create the infrastructure for alcohol production and distribution by getting the buy in, economically and politically from farmers and agribusiness.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
actually "wood" alcohol is a common name for methanol.....but you can make ethanol from wood, grass, algae....pretty much any vegetable matter.....as for the rest you should read up on the issue a bit before you embarrass yourself further.....

http://www.denverpost.com/ci_5171879?source=rss

it makes sense to produce ethanol from any cellulose material that is in surplus or going to waste.....that's precisely what was happening to corn in the Midwest US ten years ago......now it has a new use.....they've used the pulp from juice oranges in Florida, the bark from lumber cuttings in the the Northwest....the reason Brazil used sugar cane in the first place was they were producing more of it than they could sell.....
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That's exactly right and we should too. Furthermore it will help produce the infrastructure that will lead us away from dependence on foriegn oil. I say "Go For It!"
 
Topspin said:
Louisiana is just behind Fl in cane production, the Iowa political strength has more to do with it than lack of sugarcane.
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That's exactly correct. That sort of political buy in is required before we can begin developing the infrastructure. Corn certainly isn't the best material for producing alcohol but with out that buy in from farmers and agri-business, were going no where fast.
 
WinterBorn said:
Dammit Mott, there you go again using your scientific knowledge on this board. Didn't we tell you that you can't do that? :)
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Not only that I did it with out calling him an ignorant jackalope nazi liberal repelican! I used manners and knowledge in the same sentence.....I should be banned! :(
 
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