Imagine No Religion...

I suggest dixie and pmm stop being brainwashed religious idiot.

Morality is a set of values and behaviors which facilitate voluntary and mutally beneficial cooperation. This definition offends them because ultimately they are elitists who prefer one-way dictatorial relationships. GOd is an asshole if he's real.
 
AssHatZombie said:
I suggest dixie and pmm stop being brainwashed religious idiot.

Morality is a set of values and behaviors which facilitate voluntary and mutally beneficial cooperation. This definition offends them because ultimately they are elitists who prefer one-way dictatorial relationships. GOd is an asshole if he's real.
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Morality may very well be a set of values and behaviors which facilitate voluntary and mutually beneficial cooperation, but those behaviors and values come from human spiritual enlightenment, and aren't found in the rest of the animal kingdom because other animals aren't spiritual. You don't need to acknowledge that, you need to prove it wrong, but you can't. So you can keep repeating your memorized little statement, and hope that no one notices you haven't proven anything or offered any evidence to support your beliefs, and of course, all the Atheists will chime in with their support, so maybe you can pull it off?
 
PostmodernProphet said:
and how do you intend to prove that a female wolf, defending her pups from a mountain lion "knows" she is going to die trying......now, if you could document say, a female mouse trying to hold off an owl to protect her young you might be closer.....

even in a situation like this video you can't tell me the buffalo herd "reasoned" that they could rescue the calf from the lions....

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I wouldn't prove anything about buffalo, mice or wolves. But a dolphin facing an orca would be a much better example.
 
Dixie said:
Morality may very well be a set of values and behaviors which facilitate voluntary and mutually beneficial cooperation, but those behaviors and values come from human spiritual enlightenment, and aren't found in the rest of the animal kingdom because other animals aren't spiritual. You don't need to acknowledge that, you need to prove it wrong, but you can't. So you can keep repeating your memorized little statement, and hope that no one notices you haven't proven anything or offered any evidence to support your beliefs, and of course, all the Atheists will chime in with their support, so maybe you can pull it off?
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Those values are not dependant on "human spiritual enlightenment". They are found in other areas of the animal kingdom.

There is rationality behind morality. Cooperation works, its as simple as that.

Stop being a fucktard.
 
What separates men from animals is rational thought; the ability to control our urges and instincts as opposed to animals who are controlled by them. We can slow down and make predictions on things like outcomes-animals cannot. Believers attribute this to our consciences, and a sense of morality and ethics. (If these were ’instinctive’ we would all agree about what was moral and ethical, but we don’t. We simply acknowledge that there is such a thing as morality and ethics -- animals don’t)
 
Ice Dancer said:
What separates men from animals is rational thought; the ability to control our urges and instincts as opposed to animals who are controlled by them. We can slow down and make predictions on things like outcomes-animals cannot. Believers attribute this to our consciences, and a sense of morality and ethics. (If these were ’instinctive’ we would all agree about what was moral and ethical, but we don’t. We simply acknowledge that there is such a thing as morality and ethics -- animals don’t)
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This is bullshit. Animals have demonstrated the ability to reason. And we're NOT liberated from our "animal" urges either. Not by a long shot. Think for yourself. You're smarter than dixie and his idiocy.
 
AssHatZombie said:
This is bullshit. Animals have demonstrated the ability to reason. And we're NOT liberated from our "animal" urges either. Not by a long shot. Think for yourself. You're smarter than dixie and his idiocy.
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I never said we are liberated completely from our urges-but we have rationale thought to even be able to acknowledge our failures-this is something animals do not have.
 
AssHatZombie said:
Those values are not dependant on "human spiritual enlightenment". They are found in other areas of the animal kingdom.

There is rationality behind morality. Cooperation works, its as simple as that.

Stop being a fucktard.
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Human morality is NOT found in any other creature, it's just NOT! You haven't presented any examples, you've not shown this to be the case, you just keep claiming it without basis. You fall back on this 'mutually beneficial cooperation' thing, but in order to 'cooperate' you must first have TRUST, and in order to have TRUST, you must have FAITH... that's spiritual belief, whether you like it or not.
 
Dixie said:
Human morality is NOT found in any other creature, it's just NOT! You haven't presented any examples, you've not shown this to be the case, you just keep claiming it without basis. You fall back on this 'mutually beneficial cooperation' thing, but in order to 'cooperate' you must first have TRUST, and in order to have TRUST, you must have FAITH... that's spiritual belief, whether you like it or not.
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Cooperation is found in other creatures. it just is. Cooperation and trust are the core of morality. Faith is not necessarily spiritual. It's just believing someone will help you when you need it. Sometimes we get burned. SOmetimes we don't.
 
I don't trust religious people. they will sell you out for their god delusion at the drop of a hat. And that's what theocrats count on. God is antisocial.
 
The is a big difference between being religious and being spiritual.

The Founding Father's weren't keen on religion, no matter how you like to spin, it.
 
Dixie said:
The words of John Lennon resound with seculars and atheists everywhere, and it is often a point articulated on this very board, that mankind would somehow be 'better off' without Religion. I'm sorry, but I just can't imagine it, Johnny. Religion, or to a greater extent, human spirituality, is the fundamental thing which separates us from the rest of the animal kingdom. One can argue which came first, cognitive thought or spiritual belief, but the fact remains, the two are interconnected and inseparable, and have been so for a very long time. Whether it is through our cognitive thoughts that we created religion, or religion is responsible for blessing us with cognitive thought, both are the basis for humanity, civilization, society.

It is through Religion, man developed societal structures, established boundaries and guidelines for how a civilized society functions. Through human spiritual belief, we are able to recognize morality, we understand what ethics are, we develop trust and faith, and we form the basis for our principles. All of this is what enabled man to emerge from the jungle and form civilizations. Without this core of human spirituality, humans would behave much like other animals in nature behave, with the only 'morality' being to advance the species and self-preservation. Humans have a natural inclination, because of our cognitive thought, to enjoy personal pleasure. Considerations of consequence, or detriment to others, always takes a back seat to natural human desire. Without boundaries, what would happen to that primal human desire?

When you go to a zoo, you see all kinds of animals not in their natural habitat. They are in a controlled environment, there are barriers, boundaries, limitations... there is a structure to their environment. Over time, the animals learn and adapt to the surroundings, they are well fed, and everyone enjoys a pleasant day at the zoo. Would it be the same place if the animals were in their natural habitat and you were walking through their domain? Would the animals behave the same? Of course, you can imagine, you'd probably not survive such a trip. The zoo in this analogy, represents Religion, and the animals in the zoo, are humans. It is through our structure, culture, rules, boundaries and limitations, we maintain a civilized society. Imagine no Religion? Imagine going through the Zoo of Life with no zookeepers, no fences or barriers, and no animal food. Same thing!

Now, are all Religions good? Has Religion always been good for man? Is Religion sometimes perverted? Does Religion sometimes cause great death and destruction? These are all perfectly legitimate questions, but by the same token, the conditions at every zoo are not always ideal. The flaw in Religion is not because of Religion, it is because of MAN! It is ALWAYS because of something MAN has misconstrued or misunderstood regarding Religion or human spirituality. It is because man is flawed, not Religion. It is because of human attributes of greed and gluttony, men often pervert and use Religion to perpetrate evil on other men. Still, without Religion and human spirituality, we're still swing in trees collecting daily bananas.

Our Founding Fathers didn't have the 'wisdom' of entertainers telling them to imagine a world without Religion. That line of thinking was pretty much unheard of in the mid 18th century, and would have likely had you committed, should you express such a thing. Washington said a nation could not stand without God, most of the states had official state religions. The philosophy used to unite us as a nation, was based on a human spiritual belief in a Creator, who endowed mankind with certain rights and they can't be taken away by man. Everything we are, as a united nation, is based on the foundational premise that all men are Created by a Creator, and we are all Created equally. The most important right our Founding Fathers believed we had, was the Freedom of Religion. The First Amendment spells out our fundamental right to worship freely, a right we didn't previously have under the King of England.

A most unfortunate choice of words, was Jefferson's quote to Danbury Baptists, the old "wall of separation between church and state." He should have more correctly stated his vision as a wall between religious dogma and government policy. That is what was intended. Through the years, our society has seen fit to continually adopt and apply an Atheistic philosophy to government, due to a complete misunderstanding of Jefferson. Atheism is the literal antithesis of what our nation is principally founded on. While the 1st Amendment does protect the Atheists right to not believe in the entity which the nation believes has endowed him with that right, it doesn't say a thing about making that view the prevalent philosophy of government.
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Thanks, I finally get someone to admit that religion is used to control the masses, and people are less inclined to think for themselves. Good for you for pointing this out!
 
Dixie said:
Actually, bravo, many states already had an established official religion. Pennsylvania was Quaker, Virginia or Maryland was Methodist, this was a common practice of the time, and the Founding Fathers certainly weren't intent on changing that. They didn't intend on the Federal government telling the States which religion they could adopt, but the primary reason for the 'wall of separation' idea, was to prevent government intrusion into religion. It was to protect religion from government, not to protect government from religion.
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Yeah, they wanted things to be just like they were in Merry Old England with King George...
 
Animals help each other out in many ways. In social species from honeybees to naked mole rats, kinship fosters cooperation: Females forgo reproduction and instead help the dominant female with her young. And common agendas help unrelated individuals work together. Male chimpanzees, for example, gang up against predators, protecting each other at a potential cost to themselves.

Generosity is pervasive among humans. Indeed, some anthropologists argue that the evolution of the tendency to trust one's relatives and neighbors helped humans become Earth's dominant vertebrate: The ability to work together provided our early ancestors more food, better protection, and better childcare, which in turn improved reproductive success.

However, the degree of cooperation varies. “Cheaters” can gain a leg up on the rest of humankind, at least in the short term. But cooperation prevails among many species, suggesting that this behavior is a better survival strategy, over the long run, despite all the strife among ethnic, political, religious, even family groups now rampant within our species.
http://www.sciencemag.org/content/309/5731/93.full
 
Dixie said:
I'm sorry you are so retarded as to not understand that ALL Religion is SPIRITUAL!
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Nope, it is mostly dogma, rules and regulations, there are some who know of spirituality in religion, but not all do, they just go to pray, pay and obey and never really experience spirituality.
 
For the record, i think the debate between religion versus spritiuality is pretty gay and pointless. It's just some new age variation on the refusal to accept that morality begins with cooperation and trust, because new agers also want to promote traitorism, according to the dictates of the illuminati internationalist agenda.
 
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