Bachmann - Take away states rights...

I think you've made my point, that an amendment doesn't take away states rights just because its an amendment; it depends what the amendments about. And again, I don't see how Bachmann's proposed standard does that.

then we agree it seems, that dune, though a better argument than jayrod, still has a loser of an argument. apparently that went over dune's head when he thought you spanked me <-- again with his sexual fantasies

:D
 
I think you've made my point, that an amendment doesn't take away states rights just because its an amendment; it depends what the amendments about. And again, I don't see how Bachmann's proposed standard does that.

do you believe the feds or the states have power over marriage laws?

i'm curious if those who are slamming bachman, like spune, are against loving v. virginia
 
I think you've made my point, that an amendment doesn't take away states rights just because its an amendment; it depends what the amendments about. And again, I don't see how Bachmann's proposed standard does that.

The topic is marraige. Clearly some states would be deprived of their ability to define such.
 
true. i think i see what you're saying, you're saying that bachman's proposal, a marriage amendment, is not.....could you further explain, i don't want to put words in your mouth
I don't understand what you are asking. Right now the states have the authority over marriage laws. Or at least some do. Massachusetts gave up that authority to some activist judges, but that's their problem. Bachmann's proposal would simply define marriage in the traditional sense, which is similar to how my state does it. The authority to manage the process would still remain with the state and local governments.

I agree with her in principle with this issue, but I think its a waste of time. My position is to leave it up to the states, but don't expect us in North Carolina to recognize unions from New York or Massachusetts that don't meet our definition. The net effect is exactly what the Founder's envisioned: people who want the laws, taxes, benefits and services of progressive states can move there while those who don't can move out. States are "products" that we can purchase if we like them, and buy a competing product if we don't.
 
I don't understand what you are asking. Right now the states have the authority over marriage laws. Or at least some do. Massachusetts gave up that authority to some activist judges, but that's their problem. Bachmann's proposal would simply define marriage in the traditional sense, which is similar to how my state does it. The authority to manage the process would still remain with the state and local governments.

I agree with her in principle with this issue, but I think its a waste of time. My position is to leave it up to the states, but don't expect us in North Carolina to recognize unions from New York or Massachusetts that don't meet our definition. The net effect is exactly what the Founder's envisioned: people who want the laws, taxes, benefits and services of progressive states can move there while those who don't can move out. States are "products" that we can purchase if we like them, and buy a competing product if we don't.

by federally defining marriage, you're taking the states ability to do so away.

were the justices in loving v. virginia activist judges?
 
Look, someone wants polygamy? Their choice. Same if they like their friend, Flicka. Not my problem. They can deal with the end results. Slippery slope notwithstanding, to each their own. It won't stop neighbors from thinking some are weird, there may well be local ordinances or state laws against some, but let the states exercise their areas of responsibility.

What would happen in the case where a man marries two women in a State that permits polygamy, one wife divorces, then he moves to a State that does not recognize multiple partners? She can't sue him for support if the State he lives in does not recognize her as his ex-wife.
 
What would happen in the case where a man marries two women in a State that permits polygamy, one wife divorces, then he moves to a State that does not recognize multiple partners? She can't sue him for support if the State he lives in does not recognize her as his ex-wife.


WTF are you talking about? There are no states where polygamy is legal.
 
WTF are you talking about? There are no states where polygamy is legal.

In msg 9 Annie wrote,
Look, someone wants polygamy? Their choice. Same if they like their friend, Flicka. Not my problem. They can deal with the end results. Slippery slope notwithstanding, to each their own. It won't stop neighbors from thinking some are weird, there may well be local ordinances or state laws against some, but let the states exercise their areas of responsibility.

To which I replied in msg 75,
What would happen in the case where a man marries two women in a State that permits polygamy, one wife divorces, then he moves to a State that does not recognize multiple partners? She can't sue him for support if the State he lives in does not recognize her as his ex-wife.

So, what would happen if States were permitted to define marriage and not obliged to recognize marriages from other States?

The same example can be used for same sex marriage. Most marriage laws stipulate assets acquired during marriage are equally divided. If a spouse moves to a State that does not recognize same sex marriage and buys a home, then applies for divorce some time later, is his "wife" or "husband" or legally sanctioned "butt buddy" entitled to half the home?

For example, let's say a same sex married couple (we'll call them Bill and John) live in Mass. They decide to retire to Texas in a year as Bill is retired and John will retire next year. To prepare for their retirement they sell their home in Mass and Bill and John rent an apartment. Meanwhile, Bill goes to Texas and looks for a suitable home (a cozy love nest for the retiring couple). :)

Bill finds a potential home, John visits and checks it out, likes the place and agrees. John has to return to Mass to go to work so Bill stays in Texas to complete the transaction (purchase).

A month or so passes and Bill hasn't returned to Mass, John is worried Bill has found another lover, John goes to Texas to see what's happening. When he arrives at the house Bill says "Who the hell are you" and demands he get off his property.

How can John sue for half the house, being Bill's husband/wife, when Texas does not recognize same sex marriage?

As another poster noted there has to be standards across the country otherwise confusion reigns. Now do you understand?
 
In msg 9 Annie wrote,

To which I replied in msg 75,

So, what would happen if States were permitted to define marriage and not obliged to recognize marriages from other States?

The same example can be used for same sex marriage. Most marriage laws stipulate assets acquired during marriage are equally divided. If a spouse moves to a State that does not recognize same sex marriage and buys a home, then applies for divorce some time later, is his "wife" or "husband" or legally sanctioned "butt buddy" entitled to half the home?

For example, let's say a same sex married couple (we'll call them Bill and John) live in Mass. They decide to retire to Texas in a year as Bill is retired and John will retire next year. To prepare for their retirement they sell their home in Mass and Bill and John rent an apartment. Meanwhile, Bill goes to Texas and looks for a suitable home (a cozy love nest for the retiring couple). :)

Bill finds a potential home, John visits and checks it out, likes the place and agrees. John has to return to Mass to go to work so Bill stays in Texas to complete the transaction (purchase).

A month or so passes and Bill hasn't returned to Mass, John is worried Bill has found another lover, John goes to Texas to see what's happening. When he arrives at the house Bill says "Who the hell are you" and demands he get off his property.

How can John sue for half the house, being Bill's husband/wife, when Texas does not recognize same sex marriage?

As another poster noted there has to be standards across the country otherwise confusion reigns. Now do you understand?

I'm starting to.
 
In msg 9 Annie wrote,

To which I replied in msg 75,

So, what would happen if States were permitted to define marriage and not obliged to recognize marriages from other States?

The same example can be used for same sex marriage. Most marriage laws stipulate assets acquired during marriage are equally divided. If a spouse moves to a State that does not recognize same sex marriage and buys a home, then applies for divorce some time later, is his "wife" or "husband" or legally sanctioned "butt buddy" entitled to half the home?

For example, let's say a same sex married couple (we'll call them Bill and John) live in Mass. They decide to retire to Texas in a year as Bill is retired and John will retire next year. To prepare for their retirement they sell their home in Mass and Bill and John rent an apartment. Meanwhile, Bill goes to Texas and looks for a suitable home (a cozy love nest for the retiring couple). :)

Bill finds a potential home, John visits and checks it out, likes the place and agrees. John has to return to Mass to go to work so Bill stays in Texas to complete the transaction (purchase).

A month or so passes and Bill hasn't returned to Mass, John is worried Bill has found another lover, John goes to Texas to see what's happening. When he arrives at the house Bill says "Who the hell are you" and demands he get off his property.

How can John sue for half the house, being Bill's husband/wife, when Texas does not recognize same sex marriage?

As another poster noted there has to be standards across the country otherwise confusion reigns. Now do you understand?

in turns into a contract dispute, you can trace funds, intent of the parties etc....this same issue occurs in heterosexual marriages as well...
 
in turns into a contract dispute, you can trace funds, intent of the parties etc....this same issue occurs in heterosexual marriages as well...

Not necessarily. In some jurisdictions the primary residence is referred to as the "family home". It is owned by both parties regardless of who owned it when the marriage took place. If a spouse is not considered a spouse then there is no "contract dispute" to consider.

Take wiils, as another example. Let's say a person marries, has children, divorces, then marries a same sex partner. The person dies and their will stipulates their same sex spouse is to inherit everything. The surviving children claim there is no "spouse" and demand all the inheritance. In jurisdictions where same sex marriage is not recognized there is no spouse. In order for the surviving spouse to inherit the funds the State has to recognize same sex marriage.

Look what OJ did regarding homes involving the civil judgement against him in favor of the Browns. In California the Browns could have seized his home as part of a financial settlement but not in Florida so while Simpson owes the Browns money they can't touch his home in Florida.
 
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