Capitalism is theft

[wiseones2cents]

OK people. Think about it. Who do the earth's resources belong to? They belong to everyone.

I was talking to an Atheist and he was saying that GOD created suffering, but why is there suffering? We have everything we need to all live good stress free lives.

The Answer? Evil men hoard the world's resources and set their price.

Now in the old days Tribes established territories and defended them, some territories were conquered and who ever ruled had the right to the resources of the land conquered.

Now that Monarchs have fallen? Who has the right to the resources? Is it the government? Only under a dictatorship. What about in a democracy? It should be owned by we the people.

The government should own the resources for the benefit of the people, but we have witnessed governments systematically selling the land to middle men(capitalists). And they sell to more Capitalist(middle men) and so forth.

I believe this is an illegitimate sale. No government has the right to sell the countries resources to foreign entities and this is exactly what is happening today. And they use the control of the resources to limit supply and thus control the market.

Look at the water bottle companies? They pay for a permit from the government, less then $10,000 and they sell the water back to the people for multi-billions of dollars. The gov is having a hard time paying bills yet its giving away its resources to capitalist for next to nothing? I say the Government should be extracting that water, and putting the profits(sans middlemen) into their coffers to be spent on the people, not for capitalists to spend it on yachts and golf club memberships.

After I gave this speech on another board, The native Indians have jumped all over it and claimed resources on their land. They are starting to expand industry using their resources. I don't have a problem with that UNLESS they sell the land and the resource rights to foreigners.

What are your thoughts. Does the government have a legitimate right to sell resource rights to capitalists?

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

OK people. Think about it. Who do the earth's resources belong to? They belong to everyone.

I was talking to an Atheist and he was saying that GOD created suffering, but why is there suffering? We have everything we need to all live good stress free lives.

Um.... I guarantee you were not talking to an atheist.

The Answer? Evil men hoard the world's resources and set their price.

Now in the old days Tribes established territories and defended them, some territories were conquered and who ever ruled had the right to the resources of the land conquered.

Now that Monarchs have fallen? Who has the right to the resources? Is it the government? Only under a dictatorship. What about in a democracy? It should be owned by we the people.

The government should own the resources for the benefit of the people, but we have witnessed governments systematically selling the land to middle men(capitalists). And they sell to more Capitalist(middle men) and so forth.

I believe this is an illegitimate sale. No government has the right to sell the countries resources to foreign entities and this is exactly what is happening today. And they use the control of the resources to limit supply and thus control the market.

Look at the water bottle companies? They pay for a permit from the government, less then $10,000 and they sell the water back to the people for multi-billions of dollars. The gov is having a hard time paying bills yet its giving away its resources to capitalist for next to nothing? I say the Government should be extracting that water, and puttin gthe porfits(sans middlemen) into their coffers to be spent on the people, not for capitalists to spend it on yachts and golf club memberships.

After I gave this speech on another board, The native Indians have jumped all over it and claimed resources on their land. They are starting to expand industry using their resources. I don't have a problem with that UNLESS they sell the land and the resource rights to foreigners.

What are your thoughts. Does the government have a legitimate right to sell resource rights to capitalists?

Yes. The government does not possess the skills to produce the resources. It requires others to do so. Thus, if it wants the resources to be available, it then leases the rights to minerals/oil/water to those companies that have the technical skill to produce it. Those companies are entitled to make a profit. The government then gets a share of the returns. The employees of the company get wages/benefits, those that invest in the company get a share of the profit, the government uses the revenue to help provide all those entitlements they promise to the people.

If you want to argue whether the government is taking an appropriate share, that is certainly debatable. As is the need for subsidies for the profitable enterprises. Also... do note, in many cases the rights to the minerals are simply leased from the government (granted they are very long term leases). So technically the government still owns the land and resources.

 

[wiseones2cents]

Um.... I guarantee you were not talking to an atheist.

Yes I was. It was a jab at GOD.

Yes. The government does not possess the skills to produce the resources. It requires others to do so. Thus, if it wants the resources to be available, it then leases the rights to minerals/oil/water to those companies that have the technical skill to produce it. Those companies are entitled to make a profit. The government then gets a share of the returns. The employees of the company get wages/benefits, those that invest in the company get a share of the profit, the government uses the revenue to help provide all those entitlements they promise to the people.

If you want to argue whether the government is taking an appropriate share, that is certainly debatable. As is the need for subsidies for the profitable enterprises. Also... do note, in many cases the rights to the minerals are simply leased from the government (granted they are very long term leases). So technically the government still owns the land and resources.

Why does it need to lease the rights to middle men when it can do it itself and remove the middlemen, making the resources more affordable to the public(we the owners).

The government does not have the technical skill or cannot achieve it, to extract it? That is not an accurate assessment.

What good is the land the government owes when the resources are rapped for next to nothing from people that have no real right to the resources?

I say if the government removes the middle men, it will have higher profits to spend on we the people, or chooses lower profits and more affordability to the people(for the resources WE THE PEOPLE own). Last time I checked, we are not under a Monarchy.

 

[Cancel 2016.11]

It was snark about the belief in God. Atheists don't jab God since they don't believe God exists.

 

[wiseones2cents]

It was snark about the belief in God. Atheists don't jab God since they don't believe God exists.

It was tongue in check. But just to make you happy? We will say he wasn't an atheist ok? Now lets debate the rest of the contents. Who should own the world's resources. Actually lets stick to America.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Yes I was. It was a jab at GOD.

No, it wasn't. So it is akin to mocking Santa? The atheist 'jabbing at something he doesn't believe in'.... hmm... sounds like a good little crackpot.

Why does it need to lease the rights to middle men when it can do it itself and remove the middlemen, making the resources more affordable to the public(we the owners).

Because the government doesn't possess the knowledge to do so. They don't own the machinery or skill to manage it properly. Putting someone in charge that doesn't know what they are going tends to have bad results. See FEMA/Brown.

The government does not have the technical skill or cannot achieve it, to extract it? That is not an accurate assessment.

Yes, it is. No one in government knows how to run a mining company or a drilling company etc... They don't have the management skills to run it. They would have to hire those with the expertise. In politics, too often that would lead to the appointment/hiring of political cronies as favors for donations. That is not going to typically end up resulting in a net benefit to society.

What good is the land the government owes when the resources are rapped for next to nothing from people that have no real right to the resources?

As I stated, the argument of whether the government is getting enough for the resources is debatable. First I would end all subsidies to the industries that are leasing the rights. That would be a start. I honestly am not aware of exactly how much the government gets for the various leasing rights. So I can't speak to them specifically.

I say if the government removes the middle men, it will have higher profits to spend on we the people, or chooses lower profits and more affordability to the people(for the resources WE THE PEOPLE own). Last time I checked, we are not under a Monarchy.

No, we are not a monarchy. Again, if you remove the middle men as you call them, then who in our existing government structure is going to run these enterprises?

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

It was snark about the belief in God. Atheists don't jab God since they don't believe God exists.

exactly. It is like taking a shot at Santa or the Easter Bunny.

 

[SmarterthanYou]

not only is this tirade so non sensical and idiotic, you're still blaming the wrong entity for your anger.

The government should own the resources for the benefit of the people, but we have witnessed governments systematically selling the land to middle men(capitalists). And they sell to more Capitalist(middle men) and so forth.

the government already owns the resources based upon the fact that YOU can't do anything with them until you get permission from the government to begin with. So any belief in 'the government should own the resources' is ludicrous in the extreme.

 

[wiseones2cents]

No, it wasn't. So it is akin to mocking Santa? The atheist 'jabbing at something he doesn't believe in'.... hmm... sounds like a good little crackpot.

He was mocking my belief in GOD. Anyways, lets get down to the debate.

Because the government doesn't possess the knowledge to do so. They don't own the machinery or skill to manage it properly. Putting someone in charge that doesn't know what they are going tends to have bad results. See FEMA/Brown.

This is garbage. In a socialist government, the Gov would possess all knowledge. They dont own the machinery?LOL They easily have the resources, knowledge and man power to build it, and for much cheaper. In capitalism, the consumer pays for the machinery, and in the end the machinery is owned by the middleman(businessman), in socialism, the government pays for the machinery and is ALWAYS owned by the government(basically we the people).

The reason why capitalists have all this capital and resources to invest in research is because the Gov illegitimately sold or leased to them government assets/resources. If the government utilized its own resources, it could invest in its own research. We know the Military/NASA(government makes more breakthroughs) then any capitalist on earth.

Yes, it is. No one in government knows how to run a mining company or a drilling company etc... They don't have the management skills to run it. They would have to hire those with the expertise. In politics, too often that would lead to the appointment/hiring of political cronies as favors for donations. That is not going to typically end up resulting in a net benefit to society.

LOL Monarchs have been running mining companies for millenniums. It wouldn't be that hard. Government don't have the management skills?LOL they can run a country but not a mine?ROTFLOL!!!!

You have absolutely no idea what a socialist government that shares information as opposed to a capitalist government that withholds information to achieve higher profits, is capable of doing.

Believe it or not? Capitalism slows technological progress by suppressing information that is counter to their profits. I have already used solar cells as an example.

As I stated, the argument of whether the government is getting enough for the resources is debatable. First I would end all subsidies to the industries that are leasing the rights. That would be a start. I honestly am not aware of exactly how much the government gets for the various leasing rights. So I can't speak to them specifically.

The middle men(capitalists) make billions and trillions and the Gov gets in the thousands? You find that fair to we the people? Who gives government the right to give away our resources for next to nothing?

Why remove the subsidies. Just remove the middle men. The capitalists. No one other then the Gov(we the people) should own those resources. Then if you want to keep a capitalist system, you make sure ALL people are given resources at the exact same cost. THough the resources themselves MUST be owned by Government(we the people) and used to benefit we the people and not having to pay threw the nose for it.

I have done some research and governments give them away for next to nothing. They are transferring the wealth of the nation to elitists. Even worse, now they are transferring the wealth of the nation to foreigners......Who the heck gave them the right to do that!!!!Certainly not we the people!

No, we are not a monarchy. Again, if you remove the middle men as you call them, then who in our existing government structure is going to run these enterprises?

Instead of having business men who use the profits to buy yachts and other expensive toys that only benefit a few Americans? Put people in charge at respectable pay and use the access wealth to be spent on the people or for the people.

 

[wiseones2cents]

not only is this tirade so non sensical and idiotic, you're still blaming the wrong entity for your anger.

Oh really? Who should I blame(cant wait to hear this one.lol)

the government already owns the resources based upon the fact that YOU can't do anything with them until you get permission from the government to begin with. So any belief in 'the government should own the resources' is ludicrous in the extreme.

For example.There are mines being sold in Canada to foreign nations and I would imagine the same thing is happening in America. We are being sold out.

Also lets use bottles water. The government gives bottled water companies a permit, less then $10,000 dollars so they(corporations)can extract the spring water and sell it for multi-billions. ANd what do they spend that money on? Ferraris and mansions and whatmay have you. That money should be going in government coffers to be spent on the people, because that is who those resources belong to.

You certainly are NOT smarter then me.

 

[SmarterthanYou]

Oh really? Who should I blame(cant wait to hear this one.lol)

the entity to blame is government itself. i realize that's hard for your statist mind to accept, but people with money could not do the things you say they do unless government allowed them to.

For example.There are mines being sold in Canada to foreign nations and I would imagine the same thing is happening in America. We are being sold out.

Also lets use bottles water. The government gives bottled water companies a permit, less then $10,000 dollars so they(corporations)can extract the spring water and sell it for multi-billions. ANd what do they spend that money on? Ferraris and mansions and whatmay have you. That money should be going in government coffers to be spent on the people, because that is who those resources belong to.

You certainly are NOT smarter then me.

you are certainly a moron. those individuals wouldn't have those ferraris and mansions if you didn't buy their product. and the government does get money in the form of sales taxes and income taxes, so where did you get your education again? swamprat university?

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

This is garbage. In a socialist government, the Gov would possess all knowledge. They dont own the machinery?LOL They easily have the resources, knowledge and man power to build it, and for much cheaper. In capitalism, the consumer pays for the machinery, and in the end the machinery is owned by the middleman(businessman), in socialism, the government pays for the machinery and is ALWAYS owned by the government(basically we the people).

1) No, that is the PERCEPTION the socialist governments put forth. The fact of the matter is, they do not possess the knowledge. They MUST then hire people who do have the knowledge. Which again leads to cronyism.

2) It is comical that you state the consumer pays for the machinery in capitalism, yet the government pays in socialism. Tell us... where does that government get the money???? In capitalism, we get to decide for the most part where our investment capital goes. We reward the companies that do well and those that do not are allowed to fail. You have no such balance in government run entities. You just end up with whatever is provided, with little ways to effect change. Just look to our public education system as a prime example.

The reason why capitalists have all this capital and resources to invest in research is because the Gov illegitimately sold or leased to them government assets/resources. If the government utilized its own resources, it could invest in its own research. We know the Military/NASA(government makes more breakthroughs) then any capitalist on earth.

Tell us then, why does the US crush Russia in breakthroughs/technology? Their government took control of their resources. Yet they are horrid when it comes to innovation. Proclaiming that companies are only successful because the government leased rights to resources is truly displaying ignorance on the topic. Resource rights did not affect companies like Microsoft, Apple, Dell, Wal Mart, Intel, Google etc... they are successful because people invested in ideas that became reality. People took a chance on something and they were rewarded for taking the chance. THAT is why the US crushes countries like Russia when it comes to innovation.

That said, we most certainly have benefited from NASA/Military R&D. That is part of the success of capitalism.

LOL Monarchs have been running mining companies for millenniums. It wouldn't be that hard. Government don't have the management skills?LOL they can run a country but not a mine?ROTFLOL!!!!

You have absolutely no idea what a socialist government that shares information as opposed to a capitalist government that withholds information to achieve higher profits, is capable of doing.

Yes I do. See Russia.

The middle men(capitalists) make billions and trillions and the Gov gets in the thousands? You find that fair to we the people? Who gives government the right to give away our resources for next to nothing?

Link to your data source. And again, I said it is certainly debatable as to whether the government is getting too much/too little from its leases.

Why remove the subsidies. Just remove the middle men. The capitalists. No one other then the Gov(we the people) should own those resources. Then if you want to keep a capitalist system, you make sure ALL people are given resources at the exact same cost. THough the resources themselves MUST be owned by Government(we the people) and used to benefit we the people and not having to pay threw the nose for it.

Putting those same people under the control of the government is not going to suddenly make us better as a nation.

I have done some research and governments give them away for next to nothing. They are transferring the wealth of the nation to elitists. Even worse, now they are transferring the wealth of the nation to foreigners......Who the heck gave them the right to do that!!!!Certainly not we the people!

Then link up to your research data.

Instead of having business men who use the profits to buy yachts and other expensive toys that only benefit a few Americans? Put people in charge at respectable pay and use the access wealth to be spent on the people or for the people.

This concept is laughable. you do not encourage innovation by saying 'you don't get any benefits from it'

 

[Alias]

 

[wiseones2cents]

1) No, that is the PERCEPTION the socialist governments put forth. The fact of the matter is, they do not possess the knowledge. They MUST then hire people who do have the knowledge. Which again leads to cronyism.

How is hiring people that have knowledge or a skill cronyism?LOL The wouldn't necessarily be friends or relatives.

2) It is comical that you state the consumer pays for the machinery in capitalism, yet the government pays in socialism. Tell us... where does that government get the money???? In capitalism, we get to decide for the most part where our investment capital goes. We reward the companies that do well and those that do not are allowed to fail. You have no such balance in government run entities. You just end up with whatever is provided, with little ways to effect change. Just look to our public education system as a prime example.

The Socialist government gets the money from existing wealth in their coffers. Just like the Monarchs of old did. They wouldn't have to pay for any of the resources since they already own it. They would only pay for the labor and there would be no middle men(people getting a cut doing absolutely nothing like in capitalsim).

In capitalism you get to decide where corporations spend the money?ROTFLOL!!!!They are allowed to fail?LOL BULL SHIT!!! They are given corporate welfare, tax exemptions to cover losses and bailouts.

Whats wrong with public education????

Tell us then, why does the US crush Russia in breakthroughs/technology? Their government took control of their resources. Yet they are horrid when it comes to innovation. Proclaiming that companies are only successful because the government leased rights to resources is truly displaying ignorance on the topic. Resource rights did not affect companies like Microsoft, Apple, Dell, Wal Mart, Intel, Google etc... they are successful because people invested in ideas that became reality. People took a chance on something and they were rewarded for taking the chance. THAT is why the US crushes countries like Russia when it comes to innovation.

Go look at some key inventions like the Radio, TV, Satelitte, first to fly into space, personal computer, ect....The only reason Russia was unable to develop even more was because the nation was riddled with war and debt. Russia bore the brunt of both world wars. America didn't even get a scratch but instead made money off the wars.

Americans were more successful because they had more money and they were able to use that money to lure the greatest scientists of the eastern hemisphere. Those are the facts.

You have believed American lies and bullshit.

War and debt as a result sunk the Soviets.

That said, we most certainly have benefited from NASA/Military R&D. That is part of the success of capitalism.

Nope. The Soviet military had better tanks, Guns, planes and everything else. Soviet engineering is still praised by Canadian soldiers who are in the know.

Yes I do. See Russia.

Russia was not socialist. It was communist, and still, war and debt is the reason for their decline. Not socialism. Russians shared their information with all their scientists so they didn't waste money doing the same tests as capitalist firms competing.

Link to your data source. And again, I said it is certainly debatable as to whether the government is getting too much/too little from its leases.

OK. Watch the movie Flow: for the love of water. Also it is no secret that Asians have been buying American infrastructure.

Putting those same people under the control of the government is not going to suddenly make us better as a nation.

Who says they dont get any benefits? The notion that people receive all equal pay in socialism is capitalist spin. People are paid according to what they are worth, and if someone makes a discovery? They will be well compensated for it.

In capitalism, the investors do NO work other then supplying capital and all the real geniuses/scientists/experts that make all the discoveries are given crumbs!!!

Then link up to your research data.

Again see the Flow: for the love of water. You will see the government give permits for next to nothing while the capitalist make multi millions of the resources.

This concept is laughable. you do not encourage innovation by saying 'you don't get any benefits from it'

Whats laughable and disgusting at the same time is your support for capitalists who make the most money doing ABSOLUTELY SQUAT!

This particular discussion is not about innovation, but about removing the middle man that does not deserve the large piece of the pie he is receiving. It is theft of the people!

 

[wiseones2cents]

the entity to blame is government itself. i realize that's hard for your statist mind to accept, but people with money could not do the things you say they do unless government allowed them to.

And what is government made up of? Capitalist men! That serve their capitalist masters! I realize its hard for you that is eating at the pig trough to understand the thievery.

Off course government allows them! Who do you think got them elected in the first place? Capitalist corporations!! They used to use Bribes, now they are called campaign donations. What spin!!!!

you are certainly a moron. those individuals wouldn't have those ferraris and mansions if you didn't buy their product. and the government does get money in the form of sales taxes and income taxes, so where did you get your education again? swamprat university?

If I am a moron you are brain dead. It's difficult to not buy products you need or desire. Even if it is the Mafia selling it! Do you acknowledge the importance of the Mafia in society? Peanuts compared to what the corps are making!!!

They are getting water for FREE and selling it at a $1 or more a bottle!!!!

You are so fucked stupid it is not funny and the scary thing is you probably do have a diploma! Just comes to show the dumification of America!

 

[SmarterthanYou]

And what is government made up of? Capitalist men! That serve their capitalist masters! I realize its hard for you that is eating at the pig trough to understand the thievery.

Off course government allows them! Who do you think got them elected in the first place? Capitalist corporations!! They used to use Bribes, now they are called campaign donations. What spin!!!!

aren't you one of the morons doing the voting?

If I am a moron you are brain dead. It's difficult to not buy products you need or desire. Even if it is the Mafia selling it! Do you acknowledge the importance of the Mafia in society? Peanuts compared to what the corps are making!!!

They are getting water for FREE and selling it at a $1 or more a bottle!!!!

You are so fucked stupid it is not funny and the scary thing is you probably do have a diploma! Just comes to show the dumification of America!

wow, the total lack of rational thought and existence of reality is strong in you.

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

We need to put an end to the freedom of theft imposed on the productive class of America by the receiving class.

 

[wiseones2cents]

aren't you one of the morons doing the voting?

Fuck your stupid. Everything just went right over your head. Now I know why I spend more time on the other board.

wow, the total lack of rational thought and existence of reality is strong in you.

I would say the same of you. Why don't you try coming up with a good counter argument to what I said? It is because you are a dumb fuck.

 

[SmarterthanYou]

i think i remember you from the other board. I used to kick your ass over there as well.

 

[wiseones2cents]

i think i remember you from the other board. I used to kick your ass over there as well.

Who are you speaking to? It certainly cant be me.LOL